I know it's illogical... [Archive I]

Boomeister

January 4, 2005, 09:05 PM

This question is for atheists and agnostics. By the way, I'm agnostic.
Do any of you want to believe in God for emotional reasons?
To me, there is no logic behind Christianity.
I have friends and family who are theists, Christians to be exact.
Sometimes, I just want to believe to fit in or to believe because it's fun to think there's a deity up there that might love me or to believe because it's easy to just say "god did it" and not have to think things through so much or to believe because believing in the supernatural and the mysterious gives me a sense of awe (like a kid believing in Santa).
I think why I'm asking this is because I used to be a Christian in my childhood years and sometimes I miss the positive aspects of belief (fitting in, false sense of security, etc.).
Anyone else have these experiences? Or am I just crazy?

Boomeister

PoodleLovinPessimist

January 4, 2005, 10:08 PM

Do any of you want to believe in God for emotional reasons?

No.

Sometimes, I just want to believe to fit in...

Even the times I've tried to fit in, I've failed. I've quit trying.

...or to believe because it's fun to think there's a deity up there that might love me or to believe because it's easy to just say "god did it" and not have to think things through so much or to believe because believing in the supernatural and the mysterious gives me a sense of awe (like a kid believing in Santa).

Personally, I like to think. Not thinking would be like not eating; even if I could still live, I would always miss it.

Anyone else have these experiences? Or am I just crazy?

You're probably just crazy. Or maybe I am. Who knows? ;)

Ego Licet Visum

January 4, 2005, 10:49 PM

No. But I do often times wish that the universe was fundamentally different in certain ways. Sometimes I think I would like to have a god who is the sort of god that the bible says that god is. Loving, merciful etc... But not THE god of the bible, my god shalt not be a baby murderer.

Buddhism or taoism would be cool too.

Octavia

January 4, 2005, 11:08 PM

Yes. I would like to be able to believe in a religion. Not to fit in - not fitting in doesn't remotely bother me, and being a non-believer where I live is actually relatively normal.

Philosophically, however... many of my personal, private beliefs have spiritual overtones. I believe, for example, in the existence of absolute good and absolute evil. I believe in balance - for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, and so on. Whenever I hear or read about some hideous, violent act in this world these beliefs sustain me - the thought that somewhere, someone has committed an act of such grace as to counteract that evil.

But to believe that this example translates into divine beings - no. That's the leap I can't quite make. Would that I could. Several nights ago I had a very powerful dream (powerful to me, at least) where I entered a church and was overcome with such a feeling of peace and love that even dreaming, I was overwhelmed. Then, of course, I woke up, my brain engaged... and I couldn't help but feel some kind of a loss.

I don't feel any so-called religious faith. What I feel instead is wonder - that the world exists, that I exist, that all of my ancestors back to the primordial ooze survived long enough to give me a shot at experiencing the glories of this earth (the natural world being the one thing I can honestly say gives me something approximating religious feelings).

Wonder is a powerful thing, and I would not like to give up this particular form. But can it truly substitute for faith? I admit, there is something in me that feels a lack.

Harumi

January 4, 2005, 11:19 PM

I think I understand how you feel, although it may be a bit different from what you're expecting.

See, I was never raised Christian, so the ultimate "Truth" I was brought up with was Buddhism and the thousands of deities I worshipped. Personally I'm still emotionally attached to them. Even among atheists I feel crabby if someone dissed Buddhism or made fun of my (still) favorite goddess.

Of course, since I was never a Christian, the idea of all the "omni's" never stuck. Instead I think of how cool it'd be if the gods in their limited power tried to help, how cool it'd be if all the things had spirits and gods (animism) and great if demons (the Chinese concept of demons aren't necessarily evil) existed and played pranks on us mortals.

If you're crazy for wanting to believe in god, then I must be crazier than you. ;)

Alter

January 4, 2005, 11:42 PM

There's a genetic predisposition to believing in a higher power. Those who did so acheived some evolutionary advantages by being willing to go along with society, and were less likely to be outcast.

So don't feel bad about "wanting" a God. It's in your genes. Of course, that doesn't make it so, but this way you'll be able to recognize where those feelings come from. Just know that it's an evolutionary relic, like your appendix, your tonsils, or your wisdom teeth.

monstre

January 5, 2005, 01:57 AM

Yes, I would like to know with absolute certainty how to conduct my life, that there is life after death.

Stacey Melissa

January 5, 2005, 02:00 AM

I'm quite glad that certain gods don't exist, such as the one in the Bible. We'd be up Shit Creek if such gods existed. I guess it would be okay if Satan existed, since he's generally depicted as a pretty decent guy, but I don't particularly care either way. I'm perfectly content with a godless universe.

j-ogenes

January 5, 2005, 02:33 AM

Well, as it stands, the idea is essentially that we're here on Earth because conditions happened to be perfect for it--an instance of great cosmic chance. And there's no one else out there to know we're here except for those aliens in all the movies. So, we happen to be here, and I think all of us feel misery to one degree or another a varied amount of time. And so, it's like, OK, mankind can do some interesting things, and the world is this intricate place full of wonders and yet it's so hard to live as a human so much of the time.

Now, having a God wouldn't change that. If there IS one, it hasn't. Life would still suck, but at least there'd be someone to blame--to put it crassly.

I'm trying to say that I certainly do wish there was some being in charge because it may follow that conditions would be a bit better in that case.

I also wish that being were
ME!!!

I can't see what's wrong with wishing for a power in charge. To me it makes perfect sense for anyone of any belief to at once WISH there were someone up their holding our hand while also understanding there is no evidence for that and that believing in something with no evidence isn't a fine idea.

Many Christians think that atheists emotionally wish there weren't a God and that's where they get their ideology from. That's probably true in some cases. It seems strange to me to feel that way.

j-ogenes

January 5, 2005, 02:35 AM

I would also like to add that I think it's a shame this thread is in this forum where it won't get as much air time as someplace else. I think this is a wonderful question that everyone on IIDB should take the time to consider.

pharmakos

January 5, 2005, 03:03 AM

Do any of you want to believe in God for emotional reasons?
No. I have wanted to fly like a bird and breath like a fish though.
Sometimes, I just want to believe to fit in
Fit in with?
or to believe because it's fun to think there's a deity up there that might love me or to believe because it's easy to just say "god did it" and not have to think things through so much or to believe because believing in the supernatural and the mysterious gives me a sense of awe (like a kid believing in Santa).
Fun??? We have different ideas of fun, heh.;) I agree with PLP that not thinking things through "would be like not eating". There's a good chance that I'm primarily an emotional animal (i.e., that I'm not quite the rational animal that I see myself as), but I've not yet been able to do without thinking. And I'm more in awe of my laptop, highspeed internet, and this forum than I am of imaginary non-beings. I can imagine loads of groovy things, but I can't design, produce, and assemble a laptop. I'm also in awe of my experiences (flying in a plane, breathing under water). And I'm in awe of my (feeble) capacity for language. I could go on ...
Or am I just crazy?
"Crazy" people don't fit in very well. Less so even than atheists. "Crazy" is a challenging thing to be. It requires a lot of thinking to be functional.

pharmakos

January 5, 2005, 03:40 AM

Well, as it stands, the idea is essentially that we're here on Earth because conditions happened to be perfect for it--an instance of great cosmic chance.
Hmm ... that's not how I understand it. In the general sense that you're using, we are because of the conditions here. We didn't evolved as the humans we are in e.g. the middle of the sun for good reason (we couldn't have). It's easier to look backward than to try to probabilistically look forward from e.g. the big bang (or even from now great "distances" into the future). To use one of my favorite pseudo Indonesian sayings, "Tidak sama sama" (same same but different).

Many Christians think that atheists emotionally wish there weren't a God and that's where they get their ideology from.
I don't know any atheists that wish there weren't gods (which of course doesn't mean that there aren't any -- though how they could do so as an atheist, I don't know). That's like me wishing that I didn't have wings or gills (I have neither). I don't understand a belief in gods. I accept that people do believe in them. I can't. It's nothing to do with wishing or not wishing. However, that aside, among the things that I have wished for the Christian God (re: the OP) is not one of them. As a god it's a poorly defined one anyway; what exactly is it that I would be wishing for? Someone to blame? For what?

Raza

January 5, 2005, 01:34 PM

Do any of you want to believe in God for emotional reasons?
No. If any emotion is involved in any consideration of it it would be preference for not believing, but that's difficult to test considering that's also the rational conclusion.

To me, there is no logic behind Christianity.
I have friends and family who are theists, Christians to be exact.
Sometimes, I just want to believe to fit in
I have friends who believe in such things as pagan gods and goddesses, satan as an entitity (lucifer), spirits, ghosts, etc. And while I've been inclined to take more mercy on their beliefs when they show them than I'd show with strangers showing belief in christianity (as in, I don't criticise them unless the discussion comes up, I'm still equally critical of it in my own head), I've never been the slightest bit inclined to agree. But again, I'm a lover of debate and controversy, so if anything I'm more inclined to disagree than conform when I let myself be irrationally influenced at all.

Anyone else have these experiences? Or am I just crazy?

Boomeister
A few years ago I could probably have related (with the general wish to fit in, etc), so I wouldn't call you crazy. But my character has changed quite completely over that time period - also evidence that the desire can leave when you get more involved in your own role of usually being the one who disagrees.

Gooch's dad

January 5, 2005, 01:43 PM

Sure, it would be great if a God existed who could grant eternal life in a nice paradise. I'm thinking lots of surfing in a place much like Tahiti, for example. :D

And I'd love more than anything to be able to see my mother again.

I don't care about fitting in as much as I do about finding a mate. If I were a nice Lutheran guy, I'd have lots of women to choose from here in Wisconsin. As a nice atheist guy, the pool of eligible women is vanishingly small, it seems.

But as others have said, the Christian God is just not something a rational person would wish for. I certainly don't want that God to exist. I can't really think of any religion that has a god that fits the bill, either.

jafosei

January 5, 2005, 01:53 PM

Do any of you want to believe in God for emotional reasons?

I find the concept of "wanting to believe" difficult. As far as I can tell, I don't actively want to believe anything. My beliefs are more or less forced on me by circumstance and my mental wiring. I realize there may be some mechanism for guiding one's beliefs, but I don't think it's conscious (at least, it doesn't seem to be with me).

Sometimes I think it would be advantageous to believe in God. I would probably have had a better chance with my ex-girlfriend if I'd believed in her God the way she did. My parents would be happier if they knew I still believed in the God I had been raised to believe.

Despite that, I don't find myself wanting to believe anything in particular. It feels curious to even think of it that way. I prefer to believe things that are true and useful; beyond that, I don't really desire particular beliefs.

mrs. atticus

January 5, 2005, 02:45 PM

I used to tell myself (and others) for quite a long time that I believed in God, which as I later realized was mainly for emotional reasons. My parents are both Roman Catholics, so that was what I grew up with, though I was lucky because they're both really open-minded and they're both agnostics. Religion was definitely a part of my life when I grew up, but not a really important one. As a teenager I started to become very critical of the church and organized religion in general, but instead of turning into an atheist right away I kept saying that I believe in God. I guess I just didn't want to feel like a rebel and 'shock' people who care about me :rolleyes: . After a while I did admit that I was an agnostic but thought it wouldn't hurt believing in a God, so I just tried not to think about it too much.

Anyway, at some point -- after a lot of thinking (can't help it!! :D ) and many interesting conversations with both believers and non-believers -- I just started to laugh at myself and thought: What the hell are you doing to yourself? Why don't you just admit you're an atheist!! I remember that moment very well. It was a year and a half ago. Now I've been openly calling myself an atheist for about a year, and it feels so good!!

What you wrote about (trying to believe in God for emotional reasons) is exactly what I decided not to do anymore. It felt very stupid and dishonest to me. I don't like to lie because it's disrespectful, and I think the same is true when I lie to myself. But I suspect a lot of people I know try to believe for emotional reasons and because they want to fit in. They say they believe and then simply avoid thinking about their 'beliefs' so they won't have to admit that they're fooling themselves. I guess that's fine if it works for them and makes them happy... :huh: Definitely didn't work for me though.

BlakeEM

January 5, 2005, 02:49 PM

I find the concept of "wanting to believe" difficult. As far as I can tell, I don't actively want to believe anything. My beliefs are more or less forced on me by circumstance and my mental wiring. I realize there may be some mechanism for guiding one's beliefs, but I don't think it's conscious (at least, it doesn't seem to be with me).

Sometimes I think it would be advantageous to believe in God. I would probably have had a better chance with my ex-girlfriend if I'd believed in her God the way she did. My parents would be happier if they knew I still believed in the God I had been raised to believe.

Despite that, I don't find myself wanting to believe anything in particular. It feels curious to even think of it that way. I prefer to believe things that are true and useful; beyond that, I don't really desire particular beliefs.

I am VERY much the same way with all my beliefs (or lack there of). No matter how much say I wanted to believe something, I simply can’t. My brain feels like it’s wired so I can only believe what is logical (or that from my point of view and current knowledge seems most logical). This is also possibly why I’m a computer programmer and love math? I find it very strange to try to comprehend how people can believe in things that to me see so far out there that I can almost pass the people off as mentally brain damaged because their beliefs are just so far away from anything I could ever believe, no matter how much I wanted to.

If anything I like not fitting in and being as much my own unique individual as possible (although I don’t go out of my way to, I tend to subconsciously go in that direction). I tend to be a non conformist. I also have problems with authority, possibly because most authority figures believe things that I feel is very silly and they really have no warrant to have power over me. I may have a bit of a superiority complex and a little bit of an ass at times (so I’m told).

So because of all these things, you can see that I have a lot of reason other than logic to not believe in god. If logic proves otherwise I’d change my mind however, but it still wont be the popular Christian view (seeing as I’m 100% sure if there was a good it wouldn’t be the Christian god).

BlakeEM

January 5, 2005, 02:55 PM

I used to tell myself (and others) for quite a long time that I believed in God, which as I later realized was mainly for emotional reasons. My parents are both Roman Catholics...

My boss is the same way. He used to be atheist and he agrees with me when we debate about god, however he keeps his views and says he's Catholic. He has told me that he changed for emotional reasons when he broke up with his ex or something and he couldn’t get though it alone (I guess he needed an imaginary friend?). It’s a little weird.

He also supports Bush totally yet he agrees with almost everything I say that’s against him. He’s a strange person hah. I think he is brain washed from to much conservative radio that he listens to all the time.

My boss seems to be an example of a very logical person simply shutting off his logic just to be more accepted perhaps?

j-ogenes

January 5, 2005, 04:09 PM

What I'm seeing here is that people aren't willing or able to separate "emotionally wishing" some power existed from actually believing. I feel that one can say it would be NICE if some power existed (in which case, you can create your own via imagination) without beginning to believe there is one. It's kind of like saying I wish it weren't snowing now and realizing it...is. It's not that hard. I don't think you're betraying any logic or any ways of thinking that way.

BlakeEM

January 5, 2005, 04:18 PM

I play a lot of role playing games and Dungeons and Dragons and that's how I use my imagination =)

I know it’s fake but it’s a nice escape, however I don't really believe the stuff.

j-ogenes

January 5, 2005, 04:20 PM

I'm having a hard time getting my ideas straight here. I guess in some ways I wish that there *were* a God whose existence *was* proven and that at the same time the world were essentially a better place. That's different from what the op was getting at I think. I don't really advocate saying I know God doesn't exist but I'll just act like I think he does. That would be hard to understand. However, one could sort of commune with a God in the same way one does (as a child) with an imaginary friend. Whatever imaginary-friend-type-creatures I had as a kid, I a) knew weren't real, but b) could relate to them almost as though they were if I felt like it, and thus I wasn't insane or out of touch with reality.

Boomeister

January 5, 2005, 07:21 PM

Yep, just as I suspected, I'm crazy.
Thanks for the responses.
I don't want to suspend thinking or give up logic either; that's why I don't believe. However, there is an emotional side of me that wishes I didn't have to go through this struggle. I am surrounded by fundies, some of whom I love and care for. It is hard. It would be so much easier if there was a God. I agree the Christian God, as portrayed by the bible, is not a good logical or emotional choice, for that matter. I guess I'm just feeling a bit alienated at this time in my life.
Logically, I cannot believe. But there is this little tug. Ack! Make it go away! :mad: :Cheeky:

Boomeister

Octavia

January 5, 2005, 07:43 PM

Logically, I cannot believe. But there is this little tug. Ack! Make it go away! :mad: :Cheeky:

Boomeister

Do you really want it to go away? I'm not sure I do... I see no evidence for divine intelligence, or the afterlife, or many spiritual practices. That doesn't mean that I don't hope that some of them might exist. Hope can exist without faith, however. I'm not sure I want to squash the part of me that says "what if there is more?".

cajela

January 5, 2005, 08:35 PM

Well, I don't. But Martin Gardner does, so you're not in stupid company.

LSHAFC2004

January 10, 2005, 10:43 AM

:) YES definetly. I was once a strict christian but now I am an atheist/deist. I feel empty without my old religeon ,the thought of Jesus dying for me and loving me, made me feel great. Unfortunately though, I supposedly commited the unfogivable sin. Seeing as there was no way back into chritianity for me, I have abanodomed all religeon from my life. To be honest there is no common sense in beliving in miracles and other religeous things as they contradict the laws of nature and really seem impossible. I don't like being an atheist/deist,and I know how you feel because religeon is comforting. But really atheism or at the very least deism, can be the only option when looking at reality and science. In my eyes anyway. Anyone can belive what they belive as we all have our own rights :)

SLUGFly

January 11, 2005, 08:36 AM

Me too.

When I first became a "dead-again" atheist, the hole it left in me was nearly unbearable. I still prayed even though I knew there was nothing to hear the prayers. The thought of being the only voice in my head was frightening. I prayed and cried and screamed to be taken back, for a miraculous bout of ignorance to cause me to unlearn what I've learned... but you can't unlearn. For the first several months I deeply missed that fuzzy blanket of security but then I found a new road. When I was a Christian I was weak, dependent, insecure, but I was happy. After my recovery I was strong, independent, confident AND I was happy... I had discovered power and (unlike what many Christians would believe) was able to combine this with benevolence and a spirituality deeper than most theists could even imagine (most, I think, are completely devoid of spirituality)

A parable/anecdote

After my deconversion, I was driving with my brother (a pastor) on Christmas day to play basketball with our friends, a christmas tradition for us. Along the way I glanced upward and screamed in shock "Part of the sun is gone!!! A third of the sun is gone from the sky!" My brother, emotionless, matter-of-factly replied "yeah, there's an eclipse today."

My brother, on the day of celebration of the birth of his god, could not see any relevence, meaning or correspondence to an eclipse, one of the most amazing and beautiful natural phenomena (a phenomena that is said to have even followed his god's death)... he just passed it off.

Where is the spirituality in this?

JohNeo

January 11, 2005, 10:14 AM

No. I sometimes miss the God and Jesus of my childhood, but I have grown up and realize that there is too much baggage with belief in God. As an adult theist, belief was a constant struggle to suppress my doubt, and frankly it was emotionally draining.

Just as moderately religious people would not think that their God would willingly cause natural disasters to punish his children because he is a just god, I cannot accept that a just god would even let such natural disasters kill his children in the first place. The problem of evil is my savior. :p

Sometimes I wish more people were ag/ath. I do have a need for acceptance and belonging, as much as I try to be my own man. I'm just glad that my need for acceptance is not so overwhelming that I would keep believing in the illogical.

I know enough bipolar schizophrenic types here on Earth; I don't need to put my trust in a bipolar schizophrenic deity. ;)

JohNeo

Octavia

January 12, 2005, 12:19 AM

Just as moderately religious people would not think that their God would willingly cause natural disasters to punish his children because he is a just god, I cannot accept that a just god would even let such natural disasters kill his children in the first place. The problem of evil is my savior. :p

JohNeo

I believe it was C.S. Lewis who said: "If you think of this world as a place intended simply for our happiness, you find it quite intolerable: think of it as a place of training and correction and it's not so bad."

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. Helpful that, eh?

socratoad

January 12, 2005, 12:59 AM

As someone earlier in this thread brought up genetic disposition, then I would say that I was genetically programed to not be able to suspend disbelief. Even as a small child I could not even try to convince myself to believe, even though I was raised in a rural community that was very pious. I really did think during Sunday school or church that this "God" thing was an elaborate game being played by adults to try to keep us kids in line.

Do I have a sense of wonder? Certainly. Do I wish things were different? Certainly, I wish humans would become evolved or enlightened enough to actually realise that living by the "Golden Rule" is actually when all is said and done the only path to follow if we are to survive and find some meaningful sense of serenity and peace in this troubled much abused old world.

Sometimes I'm filled with hope and other times with despair for example when people make ludicrous statements that other species don't even matter and other such things. This is not a plea for sentimentality. its a wish for ultimate survival of us on this our one and only home, earth.

All other such musings about transcending our state of interdependence, moving on to other planets and other such denials of reality are not only empty rhetoric they are a denial of all that is sacred, and to me the only thing that is sacred is life itself and all that supports life. I know that I've said this before on other threads, but to me its all that is really important.

Do I believe that I was genetically programed this way? No not really. However its as good an explanation as to why I often feel so incredibly different/isolated from most of my fellow members of mankind. I'm not terribly comfortable trying to amuse myself to death, and yet to me thats what it appears to me much of my society values above all other. And so to address the OP directly, no I never have wished their were actual an actual God or god, but rather I wish each of us would act like empathetic gods/goddesses.

Godless Wonder

January 12, 2005, 01:11 AM

Well, I had a girlfriend break up with me because I didn't believe, which was a completely horrible experience, so, though I thought it'd probably be stupid, I figured, if this Bible really is magical, then maybe reading it will somehow make me magically believe it. I mean it was supposedly the Word of God, so if that were true, that seems not an unreasonable expectation. Instead, I found its contents were magically retarded beyond all conceptions of retardness I had ever previously witnessed, though, to use the word "retarded" to describe the Bible is to insult retarded people. For me to wish to believe it is for me to wish to transform myself into a cretin, to wish for a lobotomy. I cannot remotely begin to want to believe it.

JohNeo

January 12, 2005, 10:12 AM

I believe it was C.S. Lewis who said: "If you think of this world as a place intended simply for our happiness, you find it quite intolerable: think of it as a place of training and correction and it's not so bad."

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. Helpful that, eh?

I would agree it is futile to believe the world is intended for our happiness, since it is not intended for anything. But it is our job to make it a better place through training and correction for ourselves, and not to sit and wait for miracles. Taking an invisible deity with incomprehensible whims out of the equation, and not submitting to that deity, makes the world make a little more sense, IMO.

JohNeo

Atheos

January 12, 2005, 10:53 AM

I believe that humans evolved a very sophisticated ability (and desire) for associations. By this I mean that we survived as a species during hard times by our cunning ability to form abstract associations between things that resulted in helping us survive. We were able to figure out such things as "It's not good to camp out under a bunch of rocks on a hillside that might fall on you". The ability to analyze circumstances, form predictions and reinforce those predictions through experience is a hallmark of our intelligence.

How does this apply to the current thread? I believe our species has developed what might be termed an "addiction" to this ability. We crave associations like some crave nicotine. When we have questions about our existence and purpose, when we question disasters and tragedies, when we wonder at the inequities of life, we crave answers with the intensity of a crack addict. A ready made answer like "Goddidit", capped off with the sweet icing of "and nobody can know what God has in mind because of those mysterious ways" hits the spot quite nicely. Start taking this drug when you're young and it's very difficult to get off of it. It takes mental discipline to forego the easy conclusion. Is it worth the effort to "get clean?" Who knows. I happen to prefer being rational and looking for real answers than settling for a ready made lie.

-Atheos

JohNeo

January 13, 2005, 01:34 AM

epepke

January 13, 2005, 02:57 AM

Which god? Dionysus might be fun at parties.

starling

January 13, 2005, 03:39 AM

Forget God, what I want to believe in is *magic* :eek:

...and yes I despise MacDonald's commercials. -.-

Boomeister

January 13, 2005, 10:05 PM

Thanks to all of you that replied.
I go back and forth on this.
No, I cannot unlearn, nor would I want to, as that would be like a lobotomy. The fact is that at this point I cannot go back to Christianity as I would be playing a "what if" or "isn't that nice" game.
I don't know if there is a God or not, but at this point I do not believe in the Christian god. There is no evidence to suggest there is this loving deity in the sky. And because of that, it would be make belief for me to act like there was.
Maybe it is like an addiction. I guess I will need to find people in "recovery" such as myself.
I was going to a FreeThinkers group for awhile, and that was fun. I might go back. They got too political for my tastes, but now that the election is over, maybe it'll be fun again. By the way, nothing is wrong with being political, but it just didn't suit me personally.
I feel like I'm at a stage in my life where I"m stuck. I can't go back, but I'm still not sure what's out there for me. I don't know if that makes sense.
Being in Texas, it is difficult finding other unbelievers. Like I said, there's that FreeThinkers group. I'll give that another chance.
I'm not sure how to relate to my family anymore. This was in another thread I had recently posted. At this point of my life, I haven't been completely honest with them, and I fear the rejection if I do become more honest. I am lying by default...covert lying...another words, not correcting their assumptions that I am Christian.
Oh well.
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
Any other posts on this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Boomeister