How Can I Refute this Ridiculous Web Site?

[Richard of Chelmsfor]

Let me introduce you to a website.

http://www.creationresearch.net

It is run by an Australian fellow called John Mackay who looks like something out of a Natural History programme, though its content couldn't be more different. The central theme of the site seems to be to disprove evolution (referred to as 'lies') and to prove creationism. Though there seems to be other comment on other science issues.

I picked up on it because, from time to time I have a laugh by listening to a Christian radio station in Britain..

http://www.premier.org.uk

At 9.00 am (GMT) from Monday to Friday the station has a phone in programme called 'Body Talk' anchored by a nice sort of fellow called John Pantry. John knows me..we've met once..and I've phoned in to his programme a lot. He gave me the name 'Richard of Chelmsford' (with the 'd').

The thing is, John is very heavily programmed and is undoubtedly a lost cause and he falls foul of the idiocy we see from the Creationist movement. A number of weeks ago he had John Mackay on, in a one-sided 'discussion' about Creationism, helped by another guest, and American law Professor (yes, you read me correctly, a law Professor!!).

I phoned in and was told that no scientist was prepared to come on the programme to provide some balance (what a surprise!)

The thing was, I wasn't able to shoot these two guests down in flames because they had both made careers of being very sure of what they imagine to be the facts. I, on the other hand, though I've read much about evolution, have other things to do as well, so I haven't been able to make a definitive study of evolution with which to put these people straight.

However, if you look on the site you see all kinds of assertions being made which point to the Creationist fantasy. Just one example might be the contention that 'there is very little evidence for the evolution of humans.'

Is there anywhere I could look to check the truth or otherwise of the claims made on this site which wouldn't involve taking a degree course in biology?

I wrote to the radio station to object to the broadcast I've referred to, but they still had John Mackay on again about two weeks later.

I need to be ready next time. :p

[Ovazor]

Have you looked at http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/index.html ?

[evil-religion]

I think the clue is on their front page

We exist to seek evidence for the Biblical account of creation., Noha's flood, Tower bable and related subjects. We investigate and promote such evidence in order to glorify Christ and build his church.

So they are starting with a conclusion and a goal and then building the "science" to fit with it. Normally a scientist would observe then draw some conclusions and then seek some corobative evidence. Or draw out some observable predictions from their theory and then look to see if those predictions come true. This is not what these guys are doing at all. Their methodology is NOT science.

They state quite clearly that their purpose is to glorify Christ. Their purpose is not to find the truth or to expand knowledge. Science has no goal other than the expansion of knowledge. This is not the goal of these guys. None of their “research� or “evidence� can ever be thought of as even remotely impartial. Their goal will guide their hand and their eye in all things they are seeking only selective “evidence� i.e. stuff that will back up the conclusion they started with. Consequently nothing that they say can be treated with any credibility.

[Richard of Chelmsfor]

Thank you, evil-religion. Some very good points there.

Now the additional problem of getting these people (plus Premier Radio) to listen to them!

Plus Ovator, thanks to you too. I did know about Talk Origins but hadn't looked at it in detail. It seems a very comprehensive site. I just need time to look through it.

Thanks. :wave:

[socratoad]

Why would you bother? Such horseshit is infuriating, but you cannot ever hope to be able to save people from their delusions. their minds are made up long ago and they certainly don't wish to be bothered by people like you who come bearing facts :D

However if you derive enjoyment from your quest then go for it.

[evil-religion]

I'm afraid socratoad is quite correct.
These people can't be reasoned with because they are not rational i.e. they don't use reason to reach their conclusions.
They have the whole process the wrong way round they start with a conlusion and then atempt to justify it. As we all know the rational way is to start with some premises and then move to a conclusion. How can you reason with people who don't even follow the laws of deduction!!!!

[BioBeing]

Shifting to E/C

BioBeing,
S&S Moderator

[JLK]

A number of weeks ago he had John Mackay on, in a one-sided 'discussion' about Creationism, helped by another guest, and American law Professor (yes, you read me correctly, a law Professor!!)Do you recall the name? If this wasn't Philip Johnson, there were two American creationist law professors recently on a propaganda tour of the UK.

[Kingreaper]

I picked up on it because, from time to time I have a laugh by listening to a Christian radio station in Britain..

http://www.premier.org.uk

*OT*
That was the first forum I ever went on :)

Memories, memories

The fundy spamming led to the forum having to be shut down
*OT*

[Justin Z]

Why would you bother? Such horseshit is infuriating, but you cannot ever hope to be able to save people from their delusions. their minds are made up long ago and they certainly don't wish to be bothered by people like you who come bearing facts :D

However if you derive enjoyment from your quest then go for it.

If there is one listener out there whom you get to actually THINK about what he/she is listening to and/or believes, you will have been wildly successful!

I think that's what's important.

~Justin

[Richard of Chelmsfor]

Thank you all for your contributions and sorry I posted on the wrong section.

Premier Radio forum..yes!! you just wouldn't have believed the abuse you could find there. I wouldn't be surprised if they got hot under the collar over their forum because they nearly had their broadcast license pulled a number of times because of complaints from the public about the rubbish they broadcast.

Plus one or two complaints from other 'religions'..covens of witches and the like, I think. :Cheeky:

Now, re the fact that you can't change these people. Yes, that's right, you can't but I think we need to be doing something to curb their pwer. If they broadcast their rubbish and it gets heard without any truthful clarity being added then you're on the slippery slope to more and more people believing that stuff, then schools teaching it and so on.

I'm not a scientist, just a Mr Average, but it seems to me that there are many of the elements of evolution and the causes of evolution in such things as global warming, the current (sixth?) mass extinction, the science of bacteriology and the war against diseases and if science can get to grips with these things we might stand a chance of pressing on into the future for our children's sake. Not descending into a new dark age which would come about if these fundamentalists had their way.

[Azrael]

Trying to prove creationism through disproving evolution is like proving bees can swim because horses can't fly. Besides saying that, sometime one should really sit down with a highlighter, the story of Noah's Ark, and the Epic of Gilgamesh and highlight what's simmilar to each. You'll be so surprised at what you see. As far as I can tell it's very simmilar, to the point where it makes me a tad bit suspicious. Considering the fact the Epic is older then that of the Bible, it just makes me distrust the historical fiction even more. Bah, such rubbish.