What do you do?

[JohNeo]

I was riding the light rail back home last night when a homeless guy struck up a conversation with me. First it was about the tsunami, then it moved on to politics and then religion.

He was pretty clean, sounded pretty intelligent and did not seem to be intoxicated or anything...in fact, he explained to me that he has been out of prison for 4 years (for manufacturing and distributing methamphetemine), and that he has been sober and drug-free for 12 years.

He then talked about 12-step recovery, told me that he has read the Alcoholics Anonymous book twice. I nodded and said good for him. Then he told me he has read the Bible six times. Up until then I was totally at ease talking to him, but when he said "Bible," I knew he was baiting me. I raised my eyebrows and said "wow!" But I was dreading the sermon to come.

Then he told me he believes in god and that he would be nowhere without god.

I usually present myself as being pretty strongly atheist on these discussion boards (for being a newbie atheist), but I just kind of froze when he brought up the religion. Apparently he could tell that I was not going to discuss it, but I really was worried for a second it might turn into a theological debate.

I have scarcely had the chance to tell anyone I'm atheist, and even though I have fantasies about some religious nut asking me if I've accepted Jesus and proudly telling them I don't believe in god, I suddenly realized it's not that easy for me.

Do you other atheists out there clam up when the mere topic comes up with a total stranger, just to avoid any arguments? I think I actually did the right thing, but man I felt oppressed. :rolleyes:

Thanks,

JohNeo

[jayh]

I have scarcely had the chance to tell anyone I'm atheist, and even though I have fantasies about some religious nut asking me if I've accepted Jesus and proudly telling them I don't believe in god, I suddenly realized it's not that easy for me.

Do you other atheists out there clam up when the mere topic comes up with a total stranger, just to avoid any arguments? I think I actually did the right thing, but man I felt oppressed. :rolleyes:

Thanks,

JohNeo

It depends on circumstances. I don't force the subject, if a person is simply talking about how their religion helps them, I usually ignore that part of the conversation, or simply acknowledge that I'm glad they're happy. Most Christians are not really interested in forcing a debate either.

If they try to push a bit I can be quite blunt. To Mormons who accosted me at a shopping mall, or more amazingly to a woman who I stopped to help with a blown tire... I DROVE her to a gas station to get her spare reinflated (apparently she had faith that god would keep air in that tire) and she starts pushing religion on me and that god led us to meet like this etc, that she can't believe I'm really an atheist because helped her.... I finally had to tell her to shutup.

[getconfzd]

Pick your battles.

That's my number one rule. In a case like that on the train, I would just leave it alone. If he had came to my door, then that would have been a different matter.

[Y.B]

Then he told me he believes in god and that he would be nowhere without god.

I probably would have just said "Uh-huh", and avoided a useless debate.

[Never]

When I decided as a child that the adults were illogical with this god idea, I just chose to ignore the issue after that. Partly that I was shy and wasn't likely to stir conflict, partly that I just really couldn't have been less interested in the subject. Anytime someone brought up religion I was good at changing the subject. :D

Now, I'm more conscious of the issues and more likely to discuss under the right circumstances. The consideration now would be like someone above said. Is this conversation worth my time? Last week I casually mentioned I was an atheist to someone I'd met only twice before and it was fine. But I wouldn't bother prompting a sermon from a stranger on the train if I could avoid it.

Subject change!

[Godless Wonder]

I've noticed that there's an emotional response aspect to this atheism thing. For so many years, even though my whole family is atheist and has been for my entire life, as have I, I kept my atheism hidden from my classmates in school, for example. If I was asked directly, I would have told them I was atheist, but if keeping quiet could avoid any kind of attention being directed my way, I generally kept quiet. And I never was asked directly. For instance, I remember in 7th or 8th grade my science teacher once asked the class if anybody knew what someone who didn't believe in God was called. I knew, because I was one. But I kept quiet. Finally the teacher had to explain to the class tha such people were called "atheists." It wasn't until college that I freely stated to people that I was an atheist rather than keeping quiet and then only to close friends, who I knew weren't really too religious themselves (as it turned out, atheist.)

The point is, when being an atheist is apparently such a taboo that I felt the need to behave that way for so long, even though I was raised atheist, breaking away from that sort of behavior and verbally, publicly expressing your real thoughts on the subject even to close friends is likely to cause you to have an emotional response, even though, from a purely rational viewpoint you may know exactly what you think. I mean, I can remember knowing exactly what I wanted to say, saying it, and noticing that my hands were sort of shaking because I was so anxious about it, wondering what sort of reaction I was going to get. For somebody who was raised with religion, and whose family is religious, the emotional response in such a situation is likely to be even more intense than it was for me. (I should add, I'm naturally a pretty shy person, so likely my emotional response was more intense than would be the case had I been a naturally more gregarious person.)

The more you express your controversial self in these sorts of situations, the less the emotional response will be. Practice makes perfect.

Don't know if I addressed the question in the OP, or a different question.

[JohNeo]

<snip>The more you express your controversial self in these sorts of situations, the less the emotional response will be. Practice makes perfect.

Don't know if I addressed the question in the OP, or a different question.

Yeah, I think the answer for me lies somewhere between "pick your battles" and "practice makes perfect."

I have started getting past the emotional baggage, but I think there are only a few people I can comfortably discuss my atheistic outlook with, at least who are not atheist themselves. It's really nice having a girlfriend who was raised without religion (raised atheist actually), so it's not like we feed off each others' misgivings against the Church.

I realize it's not my job to evangelize atheism, but at the same time I should not be ashamed or fearful of being a non-believer.

Thanks for your input (all of yas). :thumbs:

JohNeo

[braces_for_impact]

It does depend on the situation. If someone is merely mentioning how their religion benefits them, I usually tell them I'm happy for them, etc. If they seem to be leading up to asking my affiliation or opinion, etc. I tell them I'm an atheist. Usually something along the lines of (using the OP as an example) "Well myself, I'm an atheist, but I'm glad you found comfort and changed your life around. Well done."

I find this makes people think. "Wow, he's a nice guy and an atheist. That's not what I was taught!" I have surprised people in the past, hopefully for the good.

The times I didn't receive a favorable reaction, and it seems they just wish to argue, well then I ask some very...poignant questions. This usually ends the argument with "Well I can't answer all of your questions, but I know someone that can." I have never had a follow up offer. If they still persist, then I take the kid gloves off.

[PoodleLovinPessimist]

A couple of years ago, I was on a plane bound to Pakistan. Naturally, the plane is full of Pakistani Muslims. (It's interesting: The planes into Pakistan seem 99.9% Pakistani (i.e. everyone but me), the planes out of Pakistan seem about 30-40% non Pakistani.)

I'm sitting in the plane, waiting for takeoff, when my seat-mate starts asking me questions. Pakistanis have a very different cultural concept (i.e. no concept at all) of personal privacy, so the third question I get is, "What's your religion?"

Not wanting to put too fine a point on my ordinarily militant atheism, I answered, "I'm not religious."

Big mistake. The guy behind me treats me to a half hour lecture on the importance of religion to establish ethical rules, saying, and I quote, "Without a religion, you won't know that it's wrong to have sex with your sister." (He obviously hasn't met my sister.) Not wishing to antagonize him (Muslims are usually very touchy about religion and debate), I limited my participation in the debate to repeating, "Indeed," and, "That's an interesting point."

On my subsequent trips, I learned to simply say, "I'm a Christian," which everyone seemed to simply accept without further discussion.

[MonCapitan2002]

I would have never had a conversation with the guy to begin with. I generally do not acknowledge the existence of homeless people. In other words, I ignore them completely. I know it is a fucked up thing to do, but that is how I am.

If I were pulled into a conversation about bullshit, I would have simply stated that I was an atheist and left it at that. I see no reason why I should have to justify my atheism to a complete stranger I will never see again. If anything needs justification, it is the bullshit bullshitters like Falwell, the Pope, and Bin Laden spew.

[Ape31]

Pakistanis have a very different cultural concept (i.e. no concept at all) of personal privacy, so the third question I get is, "What's your religion?"

Not wanting to put too fine a point on my ordinarily militant atheism, I answered, "I'm not religious."

Big mistake. The guy behind me treats me to a half hour lecture on the importance of religion to establish ethical rules, saying, and I quote, "Without a religion, you won't know that it's wrong to have sex with your sister." (He obviously hasn't met my sister.) You could have responded with "So what you are telling me is that without religion I would have no problem beating the crap out of someone who got in my face on a plane?"

Ape31

[Stormlight]

You could have responded with "So what you are telling me is that without religion I would have no problem beating the crap out of someone who got in my face on a plane?"

Ape31

:rolling:

[Plognark]

I generally have a "pick your battles" attitude as well. I usually only mention it to close friends or aquaintances, although the in your face strangers who seem to get some glee out of randomly accosting people will get it good if they start that shit with me.

From what i've gathered, many Muslims are culturally or religiously conditioned that atheists are wayyyy worse than other religions. Procede with caution there. :p

[Omega Glory]

Like others, if someone is just sharing their faith, I'll just say mmm hmm or okay, that's nice. If they want me to start taking an active role in the conversation like praying with them or asking me to explain my beliefs, I'll just say that I'm not religious and change the subject. Luckily, no one has pushed it any further than that.

[Richard1366]

The guy said that he believed in god and would be nowhere without god...
The obvious response would be "YOU ARE NOWHERE, YOU ARE F...ING HOMELESS"

[Hooboy !!]

Sounds to me like the guy was fishing for sympathy and playing the "I found religion... 6 times." angle is nothing new or unique.

On topic...

I am capable of chatting about Christianity on several levels and my interest in religion is great enough that I enjoy a conversation regardless of the religion. Typically I am happy to discuss religion, but you have to know their motives, which could be...

- Proselytizing. For the most part, I find this annoying and invariably, the conversation turns into me baiting them and trying to get them to lose their composure. My family will do this and when they do, I immediately steer the conversation away to something else.

- Casual conversationalists. These people talk about religion as a way of making conversation. I think their primary objective is to cope with feeling uncomfortable by chit chatting on a subject they have genuine interest in, so I usually am willing to talk to them. Even though I hate chit chat.

- Ulterior motives. Some people will talk about religion as a way of getting and holding attention on themselves. Usually in conjunction with some hard luck story. I have zero interest in this kind of conversation and tend to just nod my head politely and basically ignore them.

- Serious discussions. Every now and then (very rare) I will run into a person that is interested in actually engaging me in a serious discussion on religion. It is less dogmatic than it is philosophical and I usually learn something in the process. I very much enjoy these conversations.

[socratoad]

The guy said that he believed in god and would be nowhere without god...
The obvious response would be "YOU ARE NOWHERE, YOU ARE F...ING HOMELESS"

All tis but perception. Perhaps in his mind home = prison. Just a thought.

[JohNeo]

All tis but perception. Perhaps in his mind home = prison. Just a thought.

Agreed. He said he would rather be homeless than in prison, but he does miss the 3 square meals.

[Dark Knight Bob]

When people come to your door asking for you to believe them they're not in a position to beat you up.

When you're on a train with some random guy and he suddenly brings up how he loves jesus alarm bells ring. The crazies have all sorts of habits.

Despite not living in america I'm still not exactly at ease talking about atheism unless i'm in an arena that has witnesses.

Generally it's a case of how actively they're pushing it in my face. That in itself indicates to you how tolerant they are of your views.

[Jobar]

In a situation like that, JohnNeo, I'd play it by feel and by feeling. By feel I mean that if the guy seemed to be doing anything other than leading up to a pitch for a handout, and didn't seem like a psycho, I might try politely explaining my own lack of religious belief. By feeling- well, if he was bothering me, or seemed to be delivering a sob story, and I was in a bad mood, I might give him the Mad Kally treatment ("God is Santa for adults, you moron!")

Sometimes the Evil Atheist act can get you out of unwelcome conversations. :D