I told the truth a few months ago, and I think it was a bad idea

[SecretAsianMan]

A family friend of ours has cancer and called. I knew that she was religious - I'm not sure if it was before or after the cancer.

Anyway, she asked me if I believed in God - nicely. I replied, stammering, "No, actually, I've been happier since I stopped believing."

She says, "Oh, but what about Jesus?"

Being nice, I say "I'm pretty sure there was a historical Jesus"

"But do you believe he loved us and died for our sins and came back to life?"

"I believe he was a good man and died for what he thought was a good cause. And he probably loved his people." Again, being nice.

"Oh. Because you know, I have cancer, and I wanted to ask you to pray for me. But I don't want to ask you to do something you can't do." I can hear the dissapointment in her voice.

"I'm sorry, [name]. I wish I could, but you know I hope for the best for you."

Anyway sorry for the relatively long dialogue. That's the best I could recreate it, too. My question is, do you think I did the right thing by telling her the truth?

I had known she was religious and had cancer for a while now. Should I have told her I believed? Should I tell her that I was going through a phase and I am a deist now? Help appreciated and thanks in advance.

[PoodleLovinPessimist]

Should I have told her I believed? Should I tell her that I was going through a phase and I am a deist now? Help appreciated and thanks in advance.

I don't think it's a matter of "should", so long as your intention is not malicious. Tell her anything you please, from the plain truth to the most elaborate lie.

[eudaimonia]

situations like this are sticky. when my mom was doing quite poorly health-wise a couple of months ago, she asked me to pray for her. i had not yet told her at that point that i'm an atheist. so i said, "of course you know that i will send you good thoughts and energy and i have confidence in your doctors and i know you will get through this", etc. etc. and she felt better, and i didn't have to lie. i often use the "good thoughts and positive energy" thing in place of prayer, and no one seems to notice. have you talked to this person lately? perhaps even just calling her to let her know that you have been thinking of her lately would make her feel "cared for" in the way that i think prayer makes sick people feel "cared for".
eudaimonia

[FirstOffClub]

I wonder how many people who are "praying" for her are actually doing anything useful to help her? It's easy to pray, but it takes a lot more thoughtfulness to do anything that would truly reduce her stress level, or make her more comfortable, or make her happy. I don't know how close you live to her, but sending positive, tangible energy her way might prolong her life better than the wasted hot air of prayers. How about offering to clean up her house (pay for a maid to go in one day). Or delivering her some nice healthy meals? Or offering to go to the drugstore and pick up her meds if she's had to do it herself? If she lives far away, then a care package of some sort. But perhaps you and others are already giving her lots of help. Anyway, you get the idea. I've just noticed that a lot of xtians find it ... shall we say ... convenient ..to pray for somebody, yet not actually lift a finger to help.

Queen of Swords posted recently about how the minister of her mother's church wouldn't get the congregation to help donate any money to help pay her mother's enormous medical bills for her terminal cancer. This was after several years of her mother faithfully attending that church and playing the organ. But the minister would certainly get the congregation to pray for Queen of Sword's mother.

Talk, and prayer, are cheap. Just tell your friend that you don't believe any more, but that you certainly can do more that will help her in the here and now than just simply praying. Be honest about who you are. Anybody who has to face cancer will be strong enough to accept that.

[fr8trainman]

FirstOffClub said it best.

SecretAsianMan, I think you did a good job. You told the truth, and did so with kindness. I'm surprised someone so sick as your friend would be so intrusive in her questions to you. Such a specific request!

Sounds like she wanted prayers from people who only believed exactly what she believed. Not even being sick herself changed her level of tolerance. Funny, huh?

When people ask me to pray for them, I tell them I will keep them in my heart and think of their return to health/employment/whatever. Then I ask them how I can help them out practically (driving them to Dr., picking up things from store, helping out w/ kids, etc.).


happiness,

fr8trainman

[brighid]

You did the right thing. You told the truth and you did it with care and tact. I commend you. It may not have been what she wanted to hear, but it was the right thing to do.

I agree with whomever expressed the sentiment that hands that help are better than lips that pray. Call her and ask how you tangible help her? Does her lawn need mowing? Would it help her if you could pick up her prescriptions, or take her to a doctors appointment? Could you cook her a few meals, or take her somewhere? Perhaps do some grocery shopping or simply be there in a friendship capacity for a shoulder to cry on or an ear to listen?

You could tell her that although you are unable to pray to any God for her you feel it would be more helpful to lend her a helping hand in whatever way might be helpful and that she should feel free to call upon you in whatever capacity would best help her in her time of need.

Your kindness and thoughtfulness will go so much farther than empty, but well intentioned prayers.

Brighid

[Barney Gumble]

Nothing wrong with that, I agree your response was tactful, kind and honest. It's hard to get that trifecta from anyone, especially when they're put on the spot.

[Eudaimonist]

She did ask!

I think you handled yourself very well. :)

[SLUGFly]

"in my fashion."

These wonderful words appear several times throughout Genesis. "shoulda coulda woulda" aside, when somebody is having a difficult time I tell them that I will meditate on their peace and happiness, overcoming problems, etc. They seem to get the idea that it means to me similar to what prayer means to them, and it's their faith that gets them through not what you do or don't do. If asked directly if I would pray for somebody (assuming they're close enough that I don't want a needless confrontation) then I would simply reply, "I will pray for you in my fashion." It's not a lie, but what you mean and intend is far different from what they understand, what they understand is what gives them confidence and gets their body working for them (if you believe in faith healing).

I don't think it would be a good idea to go back and say "it was just a phase." This might seem too insincere. I think you should just offer your human compassion to her. Jesus himself said that we shine through our actions not our words, and although it may not contain references to the god she wishes was real, it still contains the emotional support that she needs from that god (that she needs from you as a conduit to god.)

[Atheos]

If my mom asked me to pray for her I'd lie and say I was. I've decided to let her bask in ignorance about my damned soul for her remaining years if possible.

Each of us must do what we believe is best in a situation like this. It's easy to look back and regret once the bridge is burned, but there's no need. Move forward in the best way you can now. That's my thought. I also agree with the sentiments that your actions are much more helpful than your prayers could ever be.

-Atheos

[markd]

I prescribeto the notion that you shouldn't ask the question if you don't want the answer. Sh brought it up, assume she wants an honest answer.

A prayer, imo, can be construed as wishing well for something. Not necessarily for God to fix it.

i.e. "I hope your surgery goes well."

not

"I hope God intervenes in the expertise of the surgeons and heals you."

My point is you did just fine.

Oh, btw, I have bad eyesight, will someone pray for me?

[fried beef sandwich]

Pray for or prey on?

Muahahahahahah.

SAM, I think you handled yourself pretty well under the circumstances. As far as what to do now.... it's hard to put the genie back into the bottle once you've unleashed it. How has your contact with this woman been since?

[SecretAsianMan]

Thanks guys. It really hasn't come up much since that conversation; I don't think I want to bring it up again.

She knows that I would do what I could for her, and I'll remind her of it when the situation is right.

[socratoad]

I wonder how many people who are "praying" for her are actually doing anything useful to help her? It's easy to pray, but it takes a lot more thoughtfulness to do anything that would truly reduce her stress level, or make her more comfortable, or make her happy. I don't know how close you live to her, but sending positive, tangible energy her way might prolong her life better than the wasted hot air of prayers. How about offering to clean up her house (pay for a maid to go in one day). Or delivering her some nice healthy meals? Or offering to go to the drugstore and pick up her meds if she's had to do it herself? If she lives far away, then a care package of some sort. But perhaps you and others are already giving her lots of help. Anyway, you get the idea. I've just noticed that a lot of xtians find it ... shall we say ... convenient ..to pray for somebody, yet not actually lift a finger to help.

Queen of Swords posted recently about how the minister of her mother's church wouldn't get the congregation to help donate any money to help pay her mother's enormous medical bills for her terminal cancer. This was after several years of her mother faithfully attending that church and playing the organ. But the minister would certainly get the congregation to pray for Queen of Sword's mother.

Talk, and prayer, are cheap. Just tell your friend that you don't believe any more, but that you certainly can do more that will help her in the here and now than just simply praying. Be honest about who you are. Anybody who has to face cancer will be strong enough to accept that.

I agree, was that not what the Good Samaritan was all about? The believers passed by whie the unbeliever actually did something useful .... he helped.

At one time I was very involved in helping via international aid NGOs and suchlike, very soon I became enraged at people whom I told of the things I had seen replying with, "I'll pray for them". As you say talk is cheap. It may help the prayer by soothing their conscience, but it sure as hell does not help the suffering IMO.

[Manitoumulegirl]

Man, I gotta agree with the Toad, here. I once sent an e-mail to the entire Colorado State Legislature about an injustice it had enacted that had a profound impact on my own life. Most didn't bother to reply. A few wrote me back and apologized, saying that they had fought the bill in question, but lost. The rest who responded said, "I'll pray for you."

Well, either 1) they were a bunch of liars who didn't say a single prayer or 2) if there is a god, that entity wasn't paying much attention to THAT outfit, or 3) there is no god. Anyway you cut it, their "prayers" didn't do me one iota of good. Accountability to the people of Colorado would have been an action that would have saved me and thousands of other Coloradoans untold grief. But the state legislature chose to "pray" and push the responsibility off on some cosmic force that hasn't shown up for any question and answer sessions to date.

In regard to your personal situation, I think the woman was both grasping at straws and crying for some sort of reassurance. It sounds to me as if you did the best you could in a very sticky situation. You were honest, but at the same time you let her know that you cared about her and felt concern. What more could she possibly have wanted from you? Well, some sort of miracle, I guess. Had she not been in such an extreme emotional state, she would have known better. You handled a highly charged emotional situation with as much grace and kindness as you could. No one else could have done any differently.

[Ebonmuse]

I had known she was religious and had cancer for a while now. Should I have told her I believed? Should I tell her that I was going through a phase and I am a deist now? Help appreciated and thanks in advance.

You did the right thing. She asked a direct question (and, might I add, a fairly intrusive one; regardless of her health, that was a bit rude). There's nothing wrong with answering a direct question honestly, especially if you did your best to inform her that you wish her all the best anyway, which is exactly what you did.

[dcm]

Oh man, I would have lied through my teeth. I do it all the time to people I care about and who would not be affected in the least by the lie. "Oh yea, I'll pray for you (in my own way). You're in the lord's hand now, on and on "

Easy as pie. :wave: