Christian Family Members

[NJBeth]

This is my first post. I am a 40 year old book/antique dealer from New Jersey and I am an Atheist. My siblings, nieces and nephews, parents etc. are all hard core fundamentalist Christians of the Church of Christ/American Baptist variety and other than a brief email exchange or phone call once or twice a year, I am estranged from the entire group.
Anybody else experience this sort of rift with their family members?

[braces_for_impact]

Hiyas and welcome!

This is my first post. I am a 40 year old book/antique dealer from New Jersey and I am an Atheist. My siblings, nieces and nephews, parents etc. are all hard core fundamentalist Christians of the Church of Christ/American Baptist variety and other than a brief email exchange or phone call once or twice a year, I am estranged from the entire group.
Anybody else experience this sort of rift with their family members?

Sounds to me like you have an interesting job. Anyway in answer to your OP, my extended family is very small, basically a mother and two uncles. I get along fine with my mom and one uncle, but the other uncle is a fundamentalist, a Pentecostal to be exact.

I lost contact with my fundamentalist uncle as I was growing up, by my family had a little reuinion in Florida about two years ago where we met again.

During this time, we got along alright. At times he would ask for a prayer and I would not participate, or he would be very opiniated in certain views, and we would have some light hearted discussion on the topic. I think he sensed that we were on opposite sides of the spectrum, so he didn't push too hard. When we all said our goodbyes, we all commented on how important family is, and on how we should make a real attempt to stay in touch.

Not long after I got home, I started to receive "god spam" from my Uncle. You're probably familiar with it, it espouses a certain (usually very prejudiced view) and tells you to pass it on, etc. Well at first I ignored them, but they became more and more well, insulting. A lot of them also made a lot of factual errors. Some were just outright bigotry against atheists. So I started to reply to these after a time. I was always respectful, but I always corrected falshoods, and I explained my views on both politics and on religion. Unfortunately I may have embarrased him, because I also always hit the 'reply all' button when I sent my email back.

Over time I got less and less of those type of emails, and despite my attempts to have discussions with my uncle outside of religious or political topics, I received fewer emails from him of any type. I know he still stays in touch with my other family members, so I'm pretty sure why he doesn't stay in touch with me.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that apparently Jesus's love doesn't apply towards atheists in the family. And after a few more unanswered emails that I sent, we no longer have contact. I find that a shame, but it does take two to form a relationship.

I know there are plenty of people here that have far better and worse situations with their religious relatives, and even their spouses!

So again, welcome aboard. I'll see ya around.

[Richard1366]

Maybe you should count yourself among the lucky ones. Although it is nice to be on the best of terms with relatives, sometimes it's just not worth it. Some relatives are simply not worth knowing better. You didn't indicate how close they live to you, if they live close, you might try to reach out on a one to one basis, one at a time.

How open is your atheism and how do they know about it? Maybe you would be better off to ignore the relatives and expand your circle of friends.

[NJBeth]

The problem is 2-fold. My husband has never been around extreme fundamentalists before and got a real kick out of arguing with them. He was just innocently exploring what he calls 'the mind trap' of Christianity and in hopes of saving his soul, my kin would try to explain. But his questioning made them really uncomfortable and when we didn't get saved, a distancing began. Similar to your situation with your Uncle, Braces_for_impact.

The other factor is that I don't really like to be around them all that much. I am uncomfortable with the bigotry against homosexuals, the anti-American politics disguised as values, the intolerance against all other religions and the bad science. But mostly, our realities are very different and that always feels really sick to me. Unless they deconvert, I am not interested in a reconcilation and I know deconversion is a long shot.

Richard, I've had open talks with several of my siblings and they've told the others. I even got one of my sisters to read, "Losing Faith in Faith" by Dan Barker but her family is supported by the Christian ministry and that was more than she could risk. The last family meeting several years ago began with a prayer in which my father discussed my Atheism with his God; one of my favorite Hallmark moments. I agree too. At this point it's best to expand my circle of friends.

Thanks for the welcome, both.

[pairadocs]

Hmmm ... editing for clarity (& hopefully brevity).

I don't have any contact with my mother and her family, although not because of religious issues.

But I tell you, I have plenty of times when I wish we lived across the country from my politically ignorant, religiously indoctrinated sister and her family, and my inlaws (oh, my inlaws :mad: ).

I agree with Richard that sometimes it's for the best. In my experience, there's a lot of guilt associated with not feeling intimate with family -- there's an expectation that you at least go through the motions of being close, and when there are huge differences of opinion between you, going through the motions can get really stressful. Having a buffer like long distances, or an already-existing rift, can really take the pressure off. In my case that leaves me more energy for getting to know friends who share my views and who I hope will eventually become part of my "real family".

[EverLastingGodStopper]

Howdy, neighbor. I'm a fellow South Jerseyan. I'm also estranged from my family. The estrangement is due (mostly) to their non-acceptance of me as a person: as an atheist person, as a person supports abortion rights, as a person who refuses to be treated like a doormat by the people who are supposed to "love" me for who I am.

I don't even bother with talking to them about their religion (Catholicism) any more. I get my xmas gifts and vanish for 364 days.

I've found it best not to talk religion with theists who I want to have in my life. But that's just me.

[Jakanapes]

It's very simple.

If your family are the type of people that you would not normally hang around with, then don't.

"Blood is thicker than water" is a bunch of crap. I define my family as people that I care about. Some of them share my DNA, some of them don't.

My sister and I are not close. We don't share much in common, had a bad relationship as kids and lived separately during our teen years (she's two years my junior). I have nothing against her, but anytime we happen to be in the same place, we have nothing to talk about and wind up wandering away to speak to others. Neither of us is the type of person the other would seek out as a friend. This seems to appall some people, I get "but she's your FAMILY" a lot. To which my response is a blank stare and "so??" Being family doesn't make her interesting, or fun to be around, or a great conversationalist. It just means that she might be able to donate bone marrow if I ever need it.


Be around who you WANT to be around. Guilt is NOT a reason to associate.

[Stacey Melissa]

If you don't want to associate with your family, then don't. It's not like you got to pick your family.

Like some of the others here, I'm basically estranged from my mom and her side of the family. It's not for religious reasons. It's more just because most of them aren't people I really would care to associate with.

Sometimes my brother asks me if I want to go see our mom anytime soon.

Me: "Not really."

Him: "But she's your mom."

Me: "So? I didn't pick her."

[FirstOffClub]

Yes, I avoid the religious members of my family. I also avoid some of the non-religious members of my family because they are incredibly self-absorbed and could give a rats ass about anyone else.

I used to think that friends could take the place of family, but I'm finding that many of them seem to think that there is something wrong with me because I don't get along with so many members of my family. It is too personal for me to explain to them why I don't, nor do I believe that I should be obligated to. If people don't like me the way I am, then so be it.

[JoyJuice]

I have a brother who is Christian who I love to death. We tend to stay clear of religious conversations. As a Christian his views are part of who he is, which is fine by me, I on the other hand tend not to debate him because I look at it this way, it's not my responsibility to explain the development of Christianity that just flies in the face of what he understands. If he however shows interest or asks questions about all the religious history books I have in my somewhat library, then fine, it's on. I only respond when a topic is presented to me. For example he was talking not to long ago about how there are mollusks in the mountains, asking how they got there. I knew he was making reference to a global flood. To which I calmly explained the earth and its continents have not always been as we see them today. I explained to the best of my knowledge tectonic shift plates and how mountains are formed. And from that I just saw what can only be described on his face as a expression of let down, not at me, but I can see the wheels churning about what he really believed. Then the next week after the Tsunami we are at a basketball game and at halftime the talk turned to the Tsunami, and I asked if he heard about the island of Sumatra(?) that had been moved over 200 feet? And I said you see, tectonic plate shifts. I don’t know, I just personally would feel bad if I, how do they say, “stole his joy.�

[FirstOffClub]

Yes, it's like seeing the disappointment on a child's face when s/he finds out there is no Santa Claus. Maybe xtians are people who are too afraid of the real world to ever grow up? There will always be that Big Sky Daddy up there looking out for them and protecting them. And of course their religion encourages them to be "meek like a lamb", and childlike. That way they are less likely to question their beliefs or to grow up, evaluate the evidence rationally pro and con, and then decide. They get rewarded for taking that "leap of faith" like it's a good thing to do that. And we atheists indulge them like they are children. I always indulge my relatives by saying that, "Hey, it's better than drugs!" But it's hard dealing with relatives who are on the religion drug. I have a hard time respecting them.

[southernhybrid]

Hi from another Jersey girl! I was also raised in a fundy home in Jersey, although mine was just a few miles from NYC.

I'm sorry that you have lost your family due to your different beliefs. My mom and I have an unspoken but mutually understood agreement that we will never discuss any of our specific religious beliefs. For that reason we have grown very close over the years and become confidents on just about every topic outside of religion.

I know you're not interested in reconciliation right now, but if the possiblility ever arises, I suggest you lay the ground rules about what subjects are off limits, and then make sure that your husband is willing to comply as well. It sounds as if he was a factor that facilitated this rift.

My mom and I have so much in common other than our beliefs. That may be the real reason that it's worked for us. If you have nothing in common with your family, it's unlikely you'll ever be able to heal old wounds. At the age of 55, I have come to realize that our shared history and genes makes these people a very important part of who I am, and I'm willing to make small compromises to keep them in my life.

[Jobar]

Welcome, NJBeth. You should look for posts by diana (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/member.php?u=707), who is also from a CoC background, and has had a lot of trouble with her family in the past. (She's a Lt. in the Air Force, and is just back from deployment in Iraq; one of our atheists in foxholes!)

I'm from a Southern Baptist and Methodist family, but luckily most of mine are moderates, not conservatives. I still get on very well with most all my large family, although I'm a very 'out' atheist (letters to the local paper supporting Newdow, etc.) Most of my family and friends avoid talking religion with me- as you can see from my post count, I'm quite voluble on the subject. It puts them off when I can quote more scripture than they can! :D

[Definitely Maybe]

NJBeth... that's tough. I can't imagine being totally estranged from my relatives. On the other hand I don't have one relative who isn't a fundy of some sort. Even at my age of 40 it's really tough being around my family and feeling like a kid... not being able to really speak my mind for fear of disappointing my parents. My mother can't go one conversation w/out mentioning her faith or bible studies in some fashion. Over the years I've actually grown to see my mother in a smaller light because of it. This really makes me sad. My parents wanted to drive 12 hours up to Jersey over Christmas to visit my sister and I declined because I didn't want to sit in a car all day listening to Christian music and having to hear my mother talk about the wonder of the Lord. SUCKS.

My wife's side is as bad. When we were dating her mother threw out some Marvin Martian stationary I gave my wife... you know, that's Satanic. Not kidding. Another relative on Christmas day cornered me to talk about how wonderful the Christmas Eve service was and explained all the ways they reached out to unbelievers. I was literally cornered against the wall and couldn't slowly back away. It's SO unconfortable.

While I truly love my family... they are all very kind and good people, there are times I see a situation like yours and think, "Wow, at least they don't have to play mind games every time they are around relatives."

[FirstOffClub]

Welcome, NJBeth. You should look for posts by diana (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/member.php?u=707), who is also from a CoC background, and has had a lot of trouble with her family in the past. (She's a Lt. in the Air Force, and is just back from deployment in Iraq; one of our atheists in foxholes!)

I'm from a Southern Baptist and Methodist family, but luckily most of mine are moderates, not conservatives. I still get on very well with most all my large family, although I'm a very 'out' atheist (letters to the local paper supporting Newdow, etc.) Most of my family and friends avoid talking religion with me- as you can see from my post count, I'm quite voluble on the subject. It puts them off when I can quote more scripture than they can! :DAnd have you been able to get any of them to become atheist, Jobar? :)

My memory sucks, and I am not verbally articulate at all. Just wondering how much of a difference it makes to be able to debate people about their beliefs? It's good for you, but is it productive talking to them, or just a waste of energy?

[Jobar]

FOC, I have one sister who is pretty much agnostic, but I can't really claim any credit for that. She and her husband are the only ones in my family who I can talk about religion with, but we almost never do because she is completely uninterested in the topic- an 'apatheist'. I watched "Faith and Doubt on 9/11" with them on the first anniversary of the tragedy, and had the most amazing conversation with her; she also has told me that my letters to the local newspapers are far too good to waste on the people around this area, and that I should instead write to the Atlanta J-C. :)

I have several friends who have approached me as a result of some of those letters, though, and one lady in particular has sought me out a couple of times to discuss my unbelief. An old friend, Colin is the only RL de-convert I may one day be able to fairly claim; right now she's still an uncertain Christian, but she admits she has no answers for the questions I've put to her. We'll see.

Mostly, though, most of my friends and family try not to think about it, and avoid any discussion about religion with me. My mom has gotten all weepy, and my dad infuriated, if I try to talk about it with them; in the interest of harmony, we've long maintained an armistice with neither side bringing up religion. I don't bow my head or take part in prayers at mealtimes when I visit them, and they don't make an issue of it. (It's the same with politics; when I tried to get them to watch Farenheit 9/11 before the election, and made it plain that I thought Bush was and is an evil man and a terrible president, the sewage outflow hit the windmill, big-time!)

I have numerous nephews, the oldest 16, who I hope may one day decide to come talk to me about my unbelief. The 16-yo is quite fundified, but he and I have always gotten along well- and I remember how it was for me when I got away from my parents. The next 5 years will tell...

[Atheos]

This is my first post. I am a 40 year old book/antique dealer from New Jersey and I am an Atheist. My siblings, nieces and nephews, parents etc. are all hard core fundamentalist Christians of the Church of Christ/American Baptist variety and other than a brief email exchange or phone call once or twice a year, I am estranged from the entire group.
Anybody else experience this sort of rift with their family members?
You have my sympathy Beth. I continue to hide my atheism from my mother and sister (the only "immediate" family I have left). I also hide it from many others in my life.

-Atheos

[Proxima Centauri]

Our family share our genes. We help perpetuate our genes by looking after family members. We are willing to make big sacrifices for family members and family members are willing to make big sacrifices for us. At least that’s the way it is in normal families. If your family is a well functioning family it’s better to keep in touch, at least once a year if you can.
I’m sorry for you if your family won’t accept you. Sometimes believing families reject an atheist because the family is dysfunctional. Sometimes believing families reject an atheist because their church is cult-like and requires them to reject you.
Try looking for friends who care for you and will look after you as if you were family. Look after your close friends as if they were related to you as well.

[Eldarion Lathria]

My wife's son by her first husband is a violent fundy. He hates me. He hates his mother because she divorced her first husband because he beat and abused her. Her son claims she should have submitted. She is a stone atheist and he hates that. She works outside the home and he says she should stay home. Why? I don't know. We have no children. She is unabashadly sexual (she's a year older than I am, looks fifteen years younger, like a red headed cross between Kelly Bundy and Adrienne Barbeau) He claims that since she can't have children any more, she shouldn't have sex. We are damned because we lived together before marriage. We aren't married because we didn't get married in church. We're evolutionists. We read sinful books and so on. We drink alcohol. I smoke cigars.

Generally we just ignore him. He won't go to our house and we won't go to his. But it is a strain at family gatherings.

Eldarion Lathria

[MsChutzpah]

My mother is soon going to be 88; and we have a wonderful relationship. I go to visit her 2-3 times a year. The other siblings are very jealous of me; and they're resentful and jealous of our relationship. Mother is surrounded by extreme fundamentalists family members who have always used every opportunity to take shots at me even though my mother has told them how it hurts her when they do that. They make comments to mother like:

How can you; why do you have anything to do with her when she doesn't believe in the Lord Jesus?

People who don't believe in God are 'dangerous'.

I feel evil in this house (said after I leave and they come to visit mom).

Does Catherine treat you mean while she is here? (have no idea where they come up with that)


When mother points out something they are doing wrong, they'll say: "Aw mom, you sound just like Catherine". or, they can bring up my name or say whatever they want, but when mom defends me, they wave her off and say "Don't even mention that satan to me. I don't want to hear her name".

It has gotten worse over the years. Whenever mom or anyone says something good about me to them, or ask why they hate me so much, they respond with something stupid like: "I don't hate Catherine. I love her soul; and besides, I put her on the altar; I gave it all to the Lord. Let Him 'deal with her".

Mean, hateful, and very ignorant people who are forever talking about how they are 'saved' and 'living at the foot of the cross'. I'd never have anything to do with them; never travel that far, if it weren't for my sweet, precious mother. Mom has often commented to me that she is so happy she can be herself and speak freely to me. She said if she didn't have me she would have thrown in the towel along time ago, and feels she would not be here. The fundamentalist nutjobs surrounding her don't have one single clue as to who she really is....and never will.