[B]That Other Church?[/B]

[Heurismus]

That Other Church - The Secular Church? :huh:

As Writer@Large often jokes we are stray cats who cannot be herded. (forgive me all others who also describe us as felines wandering freely)
I wandered if others agree that we secularists are a Church, and if it is a religion as so inaccurately reported in the latest 'missive to the masses'?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/001/17.62.html

How in all HaTes name can they get this so wrong. Is this a common tactic or is it a change in tack? A church by definition is a group of like minded people gathered together therefore, provisionally I have no problems there, unless you can suggest I'm wrong- which I certainly don't mind.

But the rest of the article has some totally erroneous and pathetic assumptions born yet again from the toilet mentalities of the Christian propagandists.

I would suggest that we are in fact a Humanist Church and that they ought to re read their dickshunrees. Educational standards are sadly lacking in this mob, however well they can put forward such tautologies. Am I right?

[walt6]

I like how he jumped right in defining secularists as supporting abortion and gay rights. Talk about hot buttons. No need to discuss the larger picture of humanist beliefs.

[Stacey Melissa]

What a load of bullshit.

For each element in the Judeo-Christian family of faiths, secularism has its counterpart: a strict ethical code, albeit focusing on health issues ("Thou shalt not smoke," etc.);
I must have missed that memo.

the use of shame when individuals disregard ethical rules (e.g. fat people);
Whoops, missed that memo, too.

a related promise of eternal life through medical advances;
Wow! I guess I'm a little behind the times with the medical literature. Last I checked, life expectancy for an average American was something like 75 or 80.

a creation story (Darwinian evolution);
Secular creation story? Isn't that an oxymoron? What does this dipshit think evolution has to do with abiogenesis, anyhow?

and so forth.
Which I assume would include the likes of our lightning story (electricity theory), our disease story (germ theory), and our earthquake story (plate techtonics theory), among others.

All that's missing is a deity, but not every religion has one, as the case of Zen Buddhism attests.
And supernatural beliefs, and dogmas, and organization, and faith.

Consider state education, where the secular church has ensured that its creation account alone be taught. According to the Discovery Institute, Ohio, Minnesota, and New Mexico are exceptions to this rule, now requiring students to know about scientific evidence critical of Darwinian evolution. Everywhere else, evangelism for this secular doctrine is a staple of 10th-grade biology class.
As is evangelism for germ theory, and the theory that our feelings eminate from our brains, rather than our hearts.

The prejudice on behalf of the secular faith emanating from the media is likewise hard to ignore. HBO's Bill Maher, raised Catholic but later converted to a harsh secularism
Evil, secular media... yawn. One nitpick, though... given that Maher is an apostate, it wouldn't be prejudice. More like postjudice.

The word Secular should be capitalized, indicating a distinctive philosophical orientation.
And while we're at it, how about we capitalize "Dumbshit," indicating a distinctive mental orientation for the author of this piece, and his cronies. Erm... "Cronies."

Young children are plainly being targeted for conversion to Secularism
Yes, we have quite the conversion racket going with our germ and electricity theory proselytizing in classrooms.

any child who takes to heart the message of these books would be adopting, among other things, a bias in favor of the Secular teaching on homosexuality
Doesn't he mean the "non-fundie" teaching on homosexuality? Goes right along with our "non-fundie" teaching that slavery is not acceptable.

conversionary efforts... blah, blah, blah... conversionary efforts...
Yes, we're trying to convert everyone to our Secular Church. But that's not all. Some of us are also trying to convert others to the Democratic Church, or the Libertarian Church, or the Labor Church, or the Red Sox Church. Because, you know, every time someone offers an argument for anything, they are trying to convert you to their Church of Whatever.

......

I just love it when fundies run out of arguments, and say, "well, you're just as bad as us."

[ohwilleke]

I think it is fair to say that most avowedly atheistic or agnostic people (as opposed to those who just never considered the issue out of apathy) in doing so adopt a worldview which accepts science and the scientific method as a valid way of viewing the world.

I think it is further true that our schools do prefer (in my opinion rightfully so), a worldview that accepts science and the scientific method as correct.

I think it is even true that people who are avowedly atheistic and agnostic have a very strong tendency to share certain values which are widely held in our society (e.g. being healthy is a good thing, honesty and truthfulness are good, you shouldn't hit people without a good reason, etc.).

If your worldview is such that you reject science and a scientific worldview and widely held values (e.g. being healthy is a good thing), then the public schools are absolutely undermining your worldview.

The big gap in the reasoning is the implication that an organized secular community is behind this. We're good, but we aren't that good. The vast majority of the people who have imposed this system and its view that science should be taught in the schools on our children (unless their parents pay to educate them theirselves), consider themselves to be Christians.

The other big gap here is a "now I want it, now I don't relativism". On one hand, the people behind this screed want absolute relativism in the science classroom. On the other hand, they insist that there is such a thing as absolute right and wrong in theology and morals. The trouble is, that demonstrating right and wrong in science is a relatively straightforward affair, while doing the same in theology and morals is not.