Who's your savior? split from: Craig Winn Receives Death Threat From A Muslim Group

[River]

. He puts them into the context of Muhammed's life so it will finally have context.



In your previous posts you stated falsely that Muhammad ( may peace and blessings be upon him) have damned the souls of Billions.

Thus, this begs the question?

Exactly what religion, creed, or form of Salvation do ye espouse (promote)?

[agator]

In your previous posts you stated falsely that Muhammad ( may peace and blessings be upon him) have damned the souls of Billions.

Thus, this begs the question?

Exactly what religion, creed, or form of Salvation do ye espouse (promote)?

Yahweh is the name of our creator. Salvation comes with a relationship with Him. Islam however is a false satanic religion that is responsible for damning the souls of billions of it's followers. Allah is no Yahweh, Muhammed can't hold a candle to Yahshua(Jesus) and the Qur'an is the antithesis of the scriptures. They couldn't be more opposite if they tried. How one can trust their soul to a liar is amazing enough. Let alone trusted it to a pedophile, rapist, murderer, theif, thug and terrorist.

And all you would have to do is read one chapter. And I was to refering to the gog/magog war.

[River]

Yahweh is the name of our creator. Salvation comes with a relationship with Him. Islam however is a false satanic religion that is responsible for damning the souls of billions of it's followers. Allah is no Yahweh, Muhammed can't hold a candle to Yahshua(Jesus) and the Qur'an is the antithesis of the scriptures. They couldn't be more opposite if they tried. How one can trust their soul to a liar is amazing enough. Let alone trusted it to a pedophile, rapist, murderer, theif, thug and terrorist.

And all you would have to do is read one chapter. And I was to refering to the gog/magog war.


Yahweh is not the name of the Creator. The Creator's name is believed to be a non-pronouncible Hebrew name that is often represented by the tetragramic YHWH. It is believed that the name [Ha'Shem'] involves 73 components.

Jesus Christ is the Messiah and Spirit of G-d. He called G-d , Allaha in palestinian Aramaic.

[River]

Muhammed can't hold a candle to Yahshua(Jesus) and the Qur'an is the antithesis of the scriptures. They couldn't be more opposite if they tried. How one can trust their soul to a liar is amazing enough. Let alone trusted it to a pedophile, rapist, murderer, theif, thug and terrorist.

And all you would have to do is read one chapter. And I was to refering to the gog/magog war.


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the Comforter of the Bible . Jesus Christ called Muhammad by the name AHMAD. If you've seen Passion of the Christ you would also notice that Jesus calls the Helper , AHMAD in Aramaic.

The Gog and Magog are most likely remnants of primitive man or hybrid Nefilim. The Qur'an states that they will be free when the Iron Alloy gates of Dhul Qurnain collapse.

[agator]

Yahweh is not the name of the Creator. The Creator's name is believed to be a non-pronouncible Hebrew name that is often represented by the tetragramic YHWH. It is believed that the name [Ha'Shem'] involves 73 components.

Jesus Christ is the Messiah and Spirit of G-d. He called G-d , Allaha in palestinian Aramaic.

Yahweh mentions His name 7000 times in the scriptures and even that isn't enough I suppose. :rolling:
We could start a whole new thread on supplying the vowels to YHWH, but we do know that is His personal name.

Jesus Christ isn't His name and neither is it Isa as the Qur'an would have you believe. His name tells us much more about Him. It is Yahshua, and it means Yahweh saves( salvation). Yahshua never mentioned the word Muhammed and furthermore, the entire scriptures don't make mention of Muhammed, Allah, Mecca, or Ka'aba. The scripture did however tell us that Satan would disguise himself as an angel of light(gabriel) and give false witness(quran) to a false prophet(muhammed). Wreake havoc with taxation and prostration etc.
So nice try but the scriptures don't mention Islam, Muhammed, Allah or anything else that is important to Islam. It just warns of them and tells us their role in the end days and what their fate will be.

[agator]

[QUOTE=River]Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the Comforter of the Bible . Jesus Christ called Muhammad by the name AHMAD.

:rolling: Sure he did :rolling:


The Gog and Magog are most likely remnants of primitive man or hybrid Nefilim.

What? :confused:
It is the all Islamic alliance that will attack Israel. In turn, Israel will unleash it's arsenal. A peace treaty will be brokered by the anti Christ( perhaps a Turk), but of coarse the Muslims will break this treaty as they have always done- in the spirit of Hudaybiyah. Yahweh will personally intervene, 5 out of 6 Muslims will perish and it isn't very pretty for most.


The Qur'an states that they will be free when the Iron Alloy gates of Dhul Qurnain collapse.

Who really cares what it says? It is about as dumb a book as ever written. It doesn't get one single prophesy correct. It lacks context and chronology. It is repetitive beyond belief. It is fascinated with torture, and torment of men's souls by a character that is suppose to be god but models Satan to a tee. It is directly plagiarized from uninspired rabbinical writings. It has lie after lie throughout. It bastardizes every Biblical account it portrays. It has missing letters, foreign letters, foreign words, and every fifth sentence is undecipherable in ANY language. It contradicts itself so much, it has verses to explain contradictions. And of coarse we must believe that the god of Abraham decided to pick a pedophile, rapist, murderer, pirate, plunderer, thief, liar, assassin, and terrorist to be the lone prophet. Illiterate to boot.

[Avatar]

I wonder if the two of you can see how ludicrous this whole discussion is.

Neither is going to convince the other. One rationalizes the Quaran away as a "satanic creation" while the other insists that it is the perfect one.

Meanwhile, you are discussing this irreconcilable difference of opinion on a board where the majority think that you are both wrong.

It's hilarious when you think about it. Neither of you can conclusively prove your case except to yourselves. Don't you just love religious faith? :rolling:

[River]

I wonder if the two of you can see how ludicrous this whole discussion is.

Neither is going to convince the other. One rationalizes the Quaran away as a "satanic creation" while the other insists that it is the perfect one.

Meanwhile, you are discussing this irreconcilable difference of opinion on a board where the majority think that you are both wrong.

It's hilarious when you think about it. Neither of you can conclusively prove your case except to yourselves. Don't you just love religious faith? :rolling:

Perhaps the most intelligent, sober thing for one to do at this point is .......to withdraw from the conversation altogether. You are right there is absolutely no way that I can convince a person......who is not on the same page.....And for the audience, who might not have adequate exposure to Islam and Xtianity...this whole topic looks like a farce....[ And there are also others who are not well versed with the Eastern, mystical side of Xtianity and the Essene Nazarene Way....]



16:125 [Holy Qur'an]

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

[Ravon]

I think we owe the two folks who took shots at each other during the course of this thread a huge thank you. They have presented us all with a cyber live demonstration of why the root of sanity is atheism. I mean, the thought of these two folks squaring off with one another with armies at their command make the antics of Doctor Strangelove seem mild and send chills up and down my spine. Thank you, thank you, thank you for showing me again why promoting the rationality of atheism is so important.

[River]

I think we owe the two folks who took shots at each other during the course of this thread a huge thank you. They have presented us all with a cyber live demonstration of why the root of sanity is atheism. I mean, the thought of these two folks squaring off with one another with armies at their command make the antics of Doctor Strangelove seem mild and send chills up and down my spine. Thank you, thank you, thank you for showing me again why promoting the rationality of atheism is so important.


LOL. its ironic but now you have completed this classic picture.

3 wingnuts that are laughing at each other [ the contestants are River, Ravon and agator]

Thank you for participating. GAME OVER

-River
PERMANENT HIATUS

[agator]

Imagine, over 500 fulfilled prophesies already and you think this one will just go away, right? Are we not heading right down that path? You have to acknowledge that. What is astonishing to me is that atheist here are making fun of something that they don't know anything about. You probably have never investigated it, and you are making a conclusion based on ignorance. Way to go, professors. You probably believe in evolution, as well, right? :rolling:

BTW, I could prove anything I have said ten times over. So conclusive proof is easily obtained from me. However, River would have to lie. For instance, he/she could never give any evidence that "Jesus" spoke of Muhamed. End of story.
Bottom line is this, I use to be just like the majority of you until I decided to research it. It takes more faith to not believe than it does to believe, once you study it. But I really don't care what you want to do, as it affects me zero. Just ask yourself how much you know before spouting off about the Bible. I will now go check out that evil bible site (or is that in the other thread) and pick out a few examples.

[Crucifiction]

Do you two really understand just how asenine you debate is?

A.) There is as much evidence for Allah as Yahweh; the number of which is NONE.

B.) It's an extraordinary leap of faith to claim that Jesus was talking about Muhammad in that passage. In fact, there's no way you can derive anything remotely resembling Muhammad from that passage; and any attempt to do so is wishful thinking.

C.) Wanna know why Jesus "fulfilled" all those prophecies? Because the people who wrote the myth knew those prophecies, and would necessarily HAVE to have him fulfill them to be the Mosiach {and they messed up on a few}.

Both sides are flawed beyond belief.

[Eldarion Lathria]

Don't you just love those "My imaginary sky daddy can beat up your imaginary sky daddy" snits ? And the "My book of nonsense and fables is better than your book of nonsense and fables" spats?

"Men seldom manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most 'gods' have the manners and morals of a spoiled five year old."

Eldarion Lathria

[TySixtus]

Yeah, these two arguing is what I like to call "Cool Whip on a shit pie."

Ty

[Plognark]

http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.php/463c5922/arguing.jpg&cb=20030927020448

And I am sooo pissed that this won't direct link :p

[Plognark]

LOL. its ironic but now you have completed this classic picture.

3 wingnuts that are laughing at each other [ the contestants are River, Ravon and agator]

Thank you for participating. GAME OVER

-River
PERMANENT HIATUS

Except only one of these "wingnuts" has a rational position to support :rolleyes:

[agator]

Do you two really understand just how asenine you debate is?

A.) There is as much evidence for Allah as Yahweh; the number of which is NONE.



Asanine. Yahweh proves to us with prophesies. Since no one hear knows the slighest bit about them, I find it humorous that you feel compelled to open your hole about them. There is no other book that can predict. Yahweh does it over and over, but I guess you need more than a spirit that can maneuver in time as to tell the exact outcome. And there is an allah also. It is a black rock at the kaaba. It was one of 360 pagan idols kept there.

B.) It's an extraordinary leap of faith to claim that Jesus was talking about Muhammad in that passage. In fact, there's no way you can derive anything remotely resembling Muhammad from that passage; and any attempt to do so is wishful thinking.

Exactly

C.) Wanna know why Jesus "fulfilled" all those prophecies? Because the people who wrote the myth knew those prophecies, and would necessarily HAVE to have him fulfill them to be the Mosiach {and they messed up on a few}.

Just because you wish something to come true doesn't mean it can. Go try and heal the sick, cure the blind, raise the dead and beat death. Let me know how it works out for ya.

Both sides are flawed beyond belief.


Until you decide that you want to know the truth and investigate it on your own. Since we are about as lazy as it can be, it will never happen and yet another prophesy will come true when only a select few will inherit His kingdom. The set-apart. This is probably foreign to you, huh? How about the words beryth or azab? Until one knows the meaning of those words, they know squat about the scriptures.

[Plognark]

Asanine. Yahweh proves to us with prophesies. Since no one hear knows the slighest bit about them, I find it humorous that you feel compelled to open your hole about them. There is no other book that can predict. Yahweh does it over and over, but I guess you need more than a spirit that can maneuver in time as to tell the exact outcome. And there is an allah also. It is a black rock at the kaaba. It was one of 360 pagan idols kept there.

Hmm, you should go party up in the biblical criticism and history forum then. have fun! ;)


Until you decide that you want to know the truth and investigate it on your own. Since we are about as lazy as it can be, it will never happen and yet another prophesy will come true when only a select few will inherit His kingdom. The set-apart. This is probably foreign to you, huh? How about the words beryth or azab? Until one knows the meaning of those words, they know squat about the scriptures.

Uh, yeah...i'm thinking you need to get out more my friend :wave:

[Jack the Bodiless]

agator:

We are VERY familiar with the CLAIM that the Bible contains "fulfilled prophecies".

We are also VERY familiar with the fact that no such claims ever stand up when examined.

I strongly doubt that you can provide anything new. I expect to see "prophecies" too vague to be meaningful, or verses ripped out of context (e.g. "prophecies of the reformation of Israel in 1948" that actually refer to the arrival in the Promised Land after the Exodus, or the return from Babylonian captivity), fictional "fulfillments" with no supporting evidence, "prophecies" written AFTER the event (e.g. Book of Daniel), and so on.

You will also ignore all the failed prophecies in the Bible.

Interestingly, the Bible's record on prophecies is so poor that it appears to be worse than we'd expect from chance alone. It appears to be "supernaturally erroneous".

[Plognark]

agator:

We are VERY familiar with the CLAIM that the Bible contains "fulfilled prophecies".

We are also VERY familiar with the fact that no such claims ever stand up when examined.

I strongly doubt that you can provide anything new. I expect to see "prophecies" too vague to be meaningful, or verses ripped out of context (e.g. "prophecies of the reformation of Israel in 1948" that actually refer to the arrival in the Promised Land after the Exodus, or the return from Babylonian captivity), fictional "fulfillments" with no supporting evidence, "prophecies" written AFTER the event (e.g. Book of Daniel), and so on.

You will also ignore all the failed prophecies in the Bible.

Interestingly, the Bible's record on prophecies is so poor that it appears to be worse than we'd expect from chance alone. It appears to be "supernaturally erroneous".

SHHHH!! I was hoping he'd go up to BC&H and get himself ripped a new one ;)

[Jack the Bodiless]

I have created a new Evolution/Creation thread here (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=112494), and a new discussion of "Biblical prophecies" here (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=112495).

[agator]

Be ripped by people ignorant of the scriptures? Yeah, right. I have yet to find an intelligent remark here. I suppose I will go in there just for a few laughs.

And the return of the Jews to the Promised Land, to “tsiyon (the mountain of Jerusalem, Zion—the permanent capital);� is linked to Yahshua’s return—the climactic event of the last days. Nice try.
And Daniel was written between 605 BC and about 530 BC. Yahweh revealed the precise day the Messiah would walk into Jerusalem and perform as promised to the prophet Daniel, over 500 years in advance of the event.Wrong again.Anything else?

[Jack the Bodiless]

Daniel was written between 168 and 164 BC.

You are wrong.

Address this on the appropriate thread, please.

[Plognark]

Be ripped by people ignorant of the scriptures? Yeah, right. I have yet to find an intelligent remark here. I suppose I will go in there just for a few laughs.

<snip>

I don't suppose you could pick up some humility and tact while you're over there too, eh? :wave:

[Angrillori]

If by "people ignorant of the scriptures" you actually mean:
people who have read the scriptures more often than you,
in more languages than you,
more in-depth than you,
using better sources than you,
and who have also studied the archaeology and history better than you,

then agator, you would be right.

[Plognark]

I love people like agator. So caught up in meaningless, inconsequential little details that they can't see the forest for the trees. :rolling:

[Mathetes]

I'm disappointed that you guys stopped these two lunatics fighting. It would have been so amusing watching them quarrel over their nonsense for another ten more pages...

[Plognark]

I'm disappointed that you guys stopped these two lunatics fighting. It would have been so amusing watching them quarrel over their nonsense for another ten more pages...

Eh, there's enough of that on other websites :p

just go on a Christian oriented forum and ask if baptism is a requirement for salvation, or bring up transubstantiation, or whether works are important or not, or any other goofy article of religious dogma ;)

[agator]

If by "people ignorant of the scriptures" you actually mean:
people who have read the scriptures more often than you,
in more languages than you,
more in-depth than you,
using better sources than you,
and who have also studied the archaeology and history better than you,

then agator, you would be right.

Had you done what you claim, you wouldn't be disagreeing. But since you know my studies so well, perhaps it is you who is omnipotent. [Edited]

[Avatar]

Agator, you are starting to live up to your name. We've all studied your Bible--doubtless more than you have. Unlike you, we do not assume that it is the word of God at all...most of us feel that the book has to prove its case. It fails all critical tests of logic and continuity. Your behavior is rapidly resembling that of a troll. Either post some proof that your claims are true, or stop making outrageous claims.

[agator]

I was just like you guys not too long ago and the scriptures had to "prove" themeselves to me also. They do this extremely easily. Unless of coarse, it is no big deal to predict the future. And what claims have I made that you need proof to, because ever since being here I have been attacked just because I am not foolish enough to believe I evolved from an amoeba. I have been on the defensive so I am unaware of any "claims" that I have to prove.BTW, my name reflects my favorite college football team.

[Avatar]

I was just like you guys not too long ago and the scriptures had to "prove" themeselves to me also.
I highly doubt that. You have not demonstrated any knowledge of critical thinking at all.

They do this extremely easily. Unless of coarse, it is no big deal to predict the future.
It is no big deal--especially when the prophecies are made after the fact...or are shoehorned until they fit.


And what claims have I made that you need proof to, because ever since being here I have been attacked just because I am not foolish enough to believe I evolved from an amoeba.
You claim that your religion and interpetation of that religion are without flaw. Your entire attitude reeks of this assumption. I am asking you to prove that:

There is a divine creator.

That this creator is in fact the Christian God.

That the Bible is the word of this God.

That your interpetation of the Bible is in fact the ONE and ONLY correct interpetation of it. (I think the fact that there are so many different variations of the Christian faith with an eternity of conflicting dogma speaks against this.)

I have been on the defensive so I am unaware of any "claims" that I have to prove.BTW, my name reflects my favorite college football team.
Until you are able to prove conclusively the above statements, none of your claims about life, the universe, and everything can be taken seriously.

[Angrillori]

Had you done what you claim, you wouldn't be disagreeing. But since you know my studies so well, perhaps it is you who is omnipotent. [Edited]

No need to be omnipotent (or in this case omnsicient would be the more appropriate term) to see what you've displayed for all.

You haven't read your bible much.
You haven't read it in other languages.
You haven't studied sceince.
You haven't studied history and archaeology.
You haven't learned to construct a logical argument.

You have learned to copy and paste.
You have learned to ignore questions you cannot answer.

Now, I'm not claiming to know everything. But I do know what you've proven, what you've shown. Don't need to be omniscient to know that.

You have yet to establish yourself as anything but a copy-and-paste-fundibot. Not very impressive.

[agator]

I highly doubt that. You have not demonstrated any knowledge of critical thinking at all.

Well, you have known me for about 100 words. Pretty presumptious, professor.


It is no big deal--especially when the prophecies are made after the fact...or are shoehorned until they fit.

You have no evidence to support this claim. Now that is a claim. Back it up.



You claim that your religion and interpetation of that religion are without flaw.

I have never said that so try again.
And since I never said that, and since I have no religion, it is pretty silly isn't it.

There is a divine creator.

That this creator is in fact the Christian God.

That the Bible is the word of this God.

That your interpetation of the Bible is in fact the ONE and ONLY correct interpetation of it. (I think the fact that there are so many different variations of the Christian faith with an eternity of conflicting dogma speaks against this.)

I don't care if you wish to worship a chair or a cow. I am not interested in your conversion. I am not the typical Bible thumper you think you know so well.


Until you are able to prove conclusively the above statements, none of your claims about life, the universe, and everything can be taken seriously.

It doesn't matter to me, whether you take anything seriously or not. Get over yourself.

[agator]

No need to be omnipotent (or in this case omnsicient would be the more appropriate term) to see what you've displayed for all.

You haven't read your bible much.
Wrong

You haven't read it in other languages.
wrong

You haven't studied sceince.
A little

You haven't studied history and archaeology.
Wrong


Nice average

[Angrillori]

I was just like you guys not too long ago and the scriptures had to "prove" themeselves to me also. They do this extremely easily. Unless of coarse, it is no big deal to predict the future.

If the bible did manage to predict the future better than mere chance,(Instead of worse than!) you would have a case. However, you've yet to establish any case where a prophecy was made before the event it prophesied happened, and the prophesied event happened as described.

"Creative" interpretations won't work (Nostradamus could count then), nor would prophecies count where people specifically tried to fulfill the prophecy because of the prophecy, nor would blatantly obvious prophecies ("There will be a war someday in the future." "The Roman Empire will fall."), nor would prophecies written after the events they prophecy.

Weed out the candidates, and the bible is no better, and a little bit worse, at predicting the future than Ms. Cleo and her "psychic" network.

To the rest:
Hey lookie here, another christian who was "just like us." Sheesh. Do all the fundibots use that line?

To agator:
I know it's possible you think you were "just like us," but your ignorance about biblical history, archaeology, biology, and philosophy expose the lie of that. Please refrain from making such patently ridiculous claims in the future.


And what claims have I made that you need proof to, because ever since being here I have been attacked just because I am not foolish enough to believe I evolved from an amoeba.

You really haven't studied evolution eh? Aren't you embarrassed for yourself? Heck, I feel a bit embarrassed for you!

But that's not why you've been attacked.

You've been attacked because you came here, acted like an arrogant git, attacking us each and every way you could. We have a lot of people who don't believe in evolution here, and a lot of christians too that don't get attacked. They do their best to make sound arguments, post reasonably, and provide a nice discourse. You on the other hand, just seemed to make every effort to come across as an arrogant jerk. Strangely enough, we don't like that.

So don't blame our attacks on your theological position/intelligence/whatever. You're not attacked here for what you believe. You're attacked because you're acting like a git. No more and no less.

[Angrillori]

No need to be omnipotent (or in this case omnsicient would be the more appropriate term) to see what you've displayed for all.

You haven't read your bible much.
Wrong

Says you. And actions speak louder than words.


You haven't read it in other languages.
wrong


Says you. And actions speak louder than words.


You haven't studied sceince.
A little


Says you. And actions speak louder than words.


You haven't studied history and archaeology.
Wrong


Says you. And actions speak louder than words.

You could say you're a doggone smurf. But as long as you're not blue and three apples high, your word just ain't gonna cut it.

I could claim to be a PhD student in mathematics. But if I make a post and can't add 2+2, it kinda would call that into doubt, wouldn't it?

[Angrillori]

. I am not the typical Bible thumper you think you know so well.


Ahem. BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!

Actually, to this point, you ARE the typical Bible thumper.

Let's see:

Grand claims without support. CHECK
Copy and paste arguments from creationists. CHECK
"I used to be just like you." CHECK
Avoiding difficult issues to focus on minutae. CHECK

So far, batting 1.000! I'm sure others can extend the list.

I find this kinda funny too:
In re: prophecies, given that you are the archetypical Bible thumper, let's make some of our own. I'll start:

You will employ the "No True Scotsman Fallacy."
Next?

[Cynthia of Syracuse]

The insults and personal sniping needs to stop.

[Plognark]

The insults and personal sniping needs to stop.

Can you just lock this thread? This guy hasn't contributed one useful thing here. All he's doing is insulting people left and right who ask him to put his money where his mouth is and slinging his ego around like a sack of lard.

[River]

The insults and personal sniping needs to stop.

Yes, please lock this thread and have it sent to Hades. The inanity of the discourse is beyond reparation.


:D

--River
Salaam