Help with something

[Darwin Redux]

Hi everyone

Could somebody please tell me what is with the planetary 'habitable zone' in terms of liquid water and it's ability to sustain life? (You know the usual ...blah blah we are special because water would freeze if were were elsewhere) I know it's a usual fundy line. Could someone please direct me to links or discuss it with me? I'm sure that the earth wobbles substantially etc...

[Loren Pechtel]

Hi everyone

Could somebody please tell me what is with the planetary 'habitable zone' in terms of liquid water and it's ability to sustain life? (You know the usual ...blah blah we are special because water would freeze if were were elsewhere) I know it's a usual fundy line. Could someone please direct me to links or discuss it with me? I'm sure that the earth wobbles substantially etc...

The habitable zone is the distance from the central star where there will be widespread liquid water (assuming a planet otherwise suitable.) For our solar system it extends from a little bit inside Earth's orbit (and as the star ages the band is slowly moving out--in a billion years the band will have moved past Earth and we will lose our water--maybe to an absolute desert, maybe to a Veneuian runaway.) to just about Mars.

[Occams_Razor]

The argument goes something like this: For life to exist on the earth or on any planet (it is argued) it must be the right distance from the sun for the temperature to be such that water can exist in its liquid state. The crux of such arguments is that the likelihood of humans existing is so improbable, that we are so "lucky" that our planet is exactly the way that it is, i.e perfectly suited for life, that there must be a god. Such a dumb argument. It follows the same path as those who are dumbstruck by the seemingly imponderability that of all the sperm their father released at the time of fertilization, the exact sperm that created him or her was the one that did so. Thus, that person is "lucky" to exist.

This is a classic example of the post hoc, ergo procter hoc (after the fact, therefore because of the fact) reasoning.

One can attempt to explain to proponents of this argument that it is mental masturbation to talk about the odds of some event happening based on what would be the odds if it had not occurred, (an inevitable underlying assumption to such argument), because when calculating the odds of something happening in the manner that it actually happened you are always left with a one-to-one relationship.

Example, what are the odds of me typing this post using exactly the language that I have? What are the odds that tomorrow a one-legged, syphilitic clown will rob a bank? Astronomical. But since I did type this post or, if tomorrow you open the paper and do read about an amputee clown burglar, those events have occurred, so then calculating the odds of those events not having occurred, and then applying those odds to what did happen, is utterly irrelevant.

There always this Douglas Adams quote in response to such arguments:

This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in—an interesting hole I find myself in—fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!�

[Darwin Redux]

The habitable zone is the distance from the central star where there will be widespread liquid water (assuming a planet otherwise suitable.) For our solar system it extends from a little bit inside Earth's orbit (and as the star ages the band is slowly moving out--in a billion years the band will have moved past Earth and we will lose our water--maybe to an absolute desert, maybe to a Veneuian runaway.) to just about Mars.

Got any links for that?

[Haener]

Try this (http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/palebluedot/abstracts/kasting.html) for instance.

Fundie arguments never cease to amaze me. So Earth is situated just 'perfect'. What about the other inner planets? Did god first create Venus and think: nope, silly me, that one is to close to the sun. Another try: Mercury. Damn! Way off. Third try: Mars. Well, better than the first two but it's a little bit too cold. Finally, on the fourth try, god was able to place a planet in the habitable zone. Lucky me.

However, as Loren Pechtel pointed out, the habitable zone slowly expands and earth will drift out of it as a consequence. Time for god to pull of another miracle or two. Or maybe plan the second coming before we'll burn to death over here.

[g-21-lto]

Try this (http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/palebluedot/abstracts/kasting.html) for instance.

Fundie arguments never cease to amaze me. So Earth is situated just 'perfect'. What about the other inner planets? Did god first create Venus and think: nope, silly me, that one is to close to the sun. Another try: Mercury. Damn! Way off. Third try: Mars. Well, better than the first two but it's a little bit too cold. Finally, on the fourth try, god was able to place a planet in the habitable zone. Lucky me.

However, as Loren Pechtel pointed out, the habitable zone slowly expands and earth will drift out of it as a consequence. Time for god to pull of another miracle or two. Or maybe plan the second coming before we'll burn to death over here.
He's starting up a new domain on Mars in a billion years or so; hadn't you heard? Then they'll have a few billion years to flourish and die off until he goes to work on the moons of Jupiter. :devil3:

[Dark Knight Bob]

Amazing. Life exists where life is most likely to exist!

ASTOUNDING! :banghead:

Also note that we might not be the only planet in our solar system with a liquid ocean. Callisto and more likely europa. Two of jupiters moons.

[Loren Pechtel]

However, as Loren Pechtel pointed out, the habitable zone slowly expands and earth will drift out of it as a consequence. Time for god to pull of another miracle or two. Or maybe plan the second coming before we'll burn to death over here.

Another billion years and I can just picture the eco-nuts demanding that the Earth be moved out in order to preserve the species.