Question to Atheists...How do you know?

[princess_333]

I'm pretty sure that a question along these lines has been asked before, and I'm not even sure if this is posted in the correct place..but here's my question:

I'm not sure if most the atheists on the forum were brought up in atheist households or if at some point they realized something and changed their beliefs...and if that was the case, then what was it that changed your mind, and how did it make you feel after?

Here's some background info for my question:
I was brought up a muslim (by name really) we didn't go to mosque or pray, the only thing we did was the fasting and eid, and maybe read a lil of the Quran, but now that I'm older I found myself questioning things more, I consider myself to be more of an agnostic.

I was discussing the whole "how do you know god exists, and how do u know that islam is right" with my mom, and she said that she just believes it, and she told me that if I didnt believe in God, then why do I pray to him (by that she means when I just talk to god) when things are bad? (and that was true, I didnt know why I did it, I think it just gave me comfort)
She told me to just not believe in god if I wanted, and for some reason that just made me feel alone when I did it
It made me feel a little better thinking that I have this "friend" that looks out for me...

I don't know if this makes sense, but did any atheists ever come across the same kind of inner conflict?

[Phishfood]

there are a lot of atheist testimonies on the forums for you to read. try the search feature.

i personally was part of a failry non-observant christian family. my mom was pretty into it, and my dad and brother were believers too. its just that it was a more kept-to-yourself thing and not a "lets talk about god" thing. i went through a deeply religious phase as a kid, then moved into a deist/spiritual phase for high school, and then just deconverted completely. i dont feel alone. really, i like it better. i was deconverted by many arguments and personal insights, many of which you'll probably come across if you hang out here more or go any further in your deconversion. i was just looking for the truth, not a playmate, so i was happy when i felt i had found it. besides, aside from its clearly more logical vantage point, atheism is also more comforting for me than hoping that i've picked the right god, with the punishment for doing something wrong being eternal damnation.

-Pf

[Sven]

I'm not sure if most the atheists on the forum were brought up in atheist households or if at some point they realized something and changed their beliefs...and if that was the case, then what was it that changed your mind, and how did it make you feel after?

As far as I know, the majority of atheists/agnostics posting here are former theists. I'm one of them.
My personal story is long and short at the same time: I grew up in a liberal Christian household (Germany) and in my early teens became involved in a cult/sect. When my critical thinking skills got better, I started to realize the holes in their philosophy and I left them at about the age of 14. This started my thinking about religion in general and lead to my very gradual deconversion. I'd only call myself an atheist for the last few years.
I did not really notice a change in my feelings, maybe because the deconversion was that gradual.

You can find more testimonials about deconversion here (http://www.infidels.org/electronic/email/ex-tian/stories.html), here (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/index.shtml), and a long thread here (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=35947).

[Mathetes]

It made me feel a little better thinking that I have this "friend" that looks out for me...

I don't know if this makes sense, but did any atheists ever come across the same kind of inner conflict?
It makes perfect sense. Humans are social animals, and our brains evolved so that we look to resolve our problems through social interactions, and reject solitude and loneliness.

So it's not surprising that we would prefer that we always had an super-powerful imaginary friend out there that looked for us, rather than being on our own.

[Scifinerdgrl]

I do miss the comfort of prayer, which I found comforting even after I realized it was really just a mind-trick like meditation. It's still a comforting mind-trick. And I miss the sense of community from belonging to a church. I grew up in an Episcopal church, which is more secular than most protestant denominations in middle America, but still has a sense of community. In school you have different teachers and classmates every year, but in Sunday school, I had the same classmates for years and our children's choir director was a father-figure for me.

There are probably a lot of people who go to houses of worship more for the companionship than the religion. I wish there were some kind of secret code so we could all do that and find each other within these congregations. It could be our dirty little secret. Hmmmmm enjoying the coffee and doughnuts? Why yes, I am. And how about them Yankees? We could then whisper in hushed tones about how hilarious the scripture is while the hypocrites around us whisper in hushed tones about whatever the latest gossip is. Then we'd part with a secret handshake and a wink and a promise to share a table at the next pancake breakfast.

I think that would be kind of nice! ;)

[muidiri]

For both Princess and Scifinerdgrl:

There are secular community activities available. They aren't as common as your local church, but they do exist. Check out some of the information under Secular Lifestyles (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=65458)

[princess_333]

Thanks everyone, for your responses and helpful links :)

[PoodleLovinPessimist]

Much depends on what you mean by "know". If you're looking for certainty, I can't offer it. I believe that if a god existed, its existence would be obvious; since no god obviously exists, I conclude that no god at all exists; a god that hides, even a little bit, is, in my opinion, no god at all; and I certainly cannot worship a god who hides from me personally.

[BadBadBad]

I'm not sure if most the atheists on the forum were brought up in atheist households or if at some point they realized something and changed their beliefs...and if that was the case, then what was it that changed your mind, and how did it make you feel after?

I believed in God like I believed in Santa Claus. I stopped believing in God for the same reasons I stopped believing in Santa Claus. As I grew up, people told me all about their God and Santa. How will Santa get down our chimney now that we don't have one? What is being born again, how can you tell if you are, and what happens to me if I'm not? Why do I have to believe in Santa Claus or I won't get any presents? Why do I have to believe in God or I'll go to hell? How does Santa read all the Christmas lists and how does he know who's been naughty or nice? What about that model airplane on my list? Why did I get everything else, but not that? How does God hear my prayers, and how come he never answers them? If they just told me there was some sort or passive God, I probably would have believed as an adult, but they had to tell me all about their Christian God and their religion.

How did I feel? Well, I felt fine about the religion I was brought up in, and I believed in God until they told me all of what I had to believe in. Just believe or go to hell. People that don't believe are bad bad bad, and they deserve to go to hell. Naturally, I felt a lot of fear and anxiety over that when I realized I couldn't believe the whole story on God. What does it mean to just believe? Just make yourself believe even when you don't? I tried that. Could I be that mentally dishonest to myself? Is that what it means to just believe in God? Is that what all these other people are doing? I was suspicious of that. No, I couldn't just make myself believe in it and lie to myself about whether I believed it. So I felt fear and anxiety for a period when I acknowledged to myself that I was one of these bad bad bad people they always talked about down at church.

So, once I concluded finally that there is no God, the fear over hell went with it. Then there was the fear of what other people thought of me. The prospect of living out life as a bad bad bad child and man was pretty scary. The solution? What I think in my little brain is nobody's business but mine. No one else has to know. I can stand in church and sing these boring songs and answer "yes, I believe" whenever required. You know, just like I suspected of half the people I've ever known. I felt just fine at that point, and that lasted until I just couldn't be that mentally dishonest to continue the charade as an adult. Word finally got out to all the people I didn't want it to. He's not of the Body (The Return of the Archons (http://) ). So how did I feel? I felt fine until the word got out. Now I've been labeled for life. How would anyone feel about being labeled a hellbound heathen that desparately deserves eternal damnation and torture?

[g-21-lto]

Basically, I had a several-years-long crisis of belief that led to me deciding that it made more sense to be agnostic/atheist. For background, I was brought up Christian, and we went to church every Sunday, yadda yadda yadda, but we weren't particularly "religious."

I started actually reading certain passages of the Bible and deciding that, you know, God ordering the murders of the Canaanites wasn't exactly omnibenevolent on the surface. Add to that my uncomfortableness with the doctrines surrounding original sin -- and how anyone who wasn't "saved" by Jesus would go to Hell. What if they had never heard of Jesus or God? How was that fair or just? Did God really do this?

Basically my own moral beliefs were growing up independent of the church and the Bible, and I was having trouble reconciling my basic humanitarian principles with Yahweh (and even Jesus, in the sense of damning to Hell). There was a certain point at which I basically rejected all of Christian doctrine except the existence of God as ridiculousness; I only held onto the idea of God basically out of fear of hellfire and of the unknown -- I had always believed in God, and if I didn't believe in Him anymore, what then?

Eventually I realized I was being intellectually dishonest and I gave up belief in God as well. Plus, I was never given any evidence of God's actual existence, just plenty of repetitions of "He does exist! He does exist!" since birth.

[muidiri]

How would anyone feel about being labeled a hellbound heathen that desparately deserves eternal damnation and torture?

Proud of my honesty and my ability to reason for myself. Content that my mind and my life are my own, and are subject to the will of no other. Happy that nobody has the right to judge my mind and my soul ECEPT for me myself. Confident at the prospect of valuing and judging my own actions with honesty and without deception.

Proud and Content and Happy and Confident.

Your life is yours - go out and live it. If others condemn you for not being dishonest to yourself, if they ostracize you for not closing your eyes to reality... then why should their willfully blind opinions hold any sway over you?

[BadBadBad]

Proud of my honesty and my ability to reason for myself. Content that my mind and my life are my own, and are subject to the will of no other. Happy that nobody has the right to judge my mind and my soul ECEPT for me myself. Confident at the prospect of valuing and judging my own actions with honesty and without deception.

Proud and Content and Happy and Confident.

Your life is yours - go out and live it. If others condemn you for not being dishonest to yourself, if they ostracize you for not closing your eyes to reality... then why should their willfully blind opinions hold any sway over you?

Thanks for that eloquent point of view. I've seen that in practice. I had lunch with an obviously fundy Christian and another friend. My friend brought up Christianity and proudly admitted his atheism. I cringed at being brought into the conversation and being judged. My friend smiled and laughed away the judgement. He discounted all that judgement with a smile and waved it all off as pure silliness. It never seems that simple to me, even though I have a lot of respect for this view point.

[flintknapper]

In second grade, Catholic school, I was told by a nun that my Nazarene great-grandmother that had just died would not go to heaven because she was not Catholic. I figured out real quick that either the Catholic or the Nazarene religions had to be false. By 8th grade,(1968) my last year to be bothered by the Catholics, I was certain they were all a scam. I've seen no evidence to change my view since that time.

[MonkeyMan]

First some background: my mother's a three-times-a-year Catholic, my father a Freethinker and both shared the South German/Swiss distrust towards worldly and church authority (best illustrated by the folk wisdom "Says the mayor to the priest: "You keep 'em dumb, then I'll keep 'em poor!").

Anyway, after a deeply religious period in my freshman highschool year, I've read the bible three times, and that did it.

Most poignant:
- OT (God omniscient (Adam, where art thou?), omnipotent (pesky Amalekites!),benevolent (pesky pesky Amalekites!!)-
- NT: Jesus stating clearly he'd come for the Jews, others need not apply (Mt10:5-6 and Mt15:24)
- Jesus being quite a wing nut: fig tree, sowing discord in families, staying forty days in the hot desert sun 'till he saw the Devil etc. :Cheeky:
- Paul being the real founder of Christianity as we know it (the Messianic Jews being the proto-Christians, but that I learnt a lot later)
- Add in the contradictions, the total absence of Gawd's OT interfering in modern times, Jesus' failure to show up for work in the last 2000 years etc.

Conclusions I reached:
- Jesus is not the Son of God (tm), hence no 'died for our sins' and no 'resurrection' either.
- Folks, we've been had (Paul's legerdemain, passing his theology for Jesus'). :eek:
- I'm better off trusting my instincts (that inner voice hardwired to my titanium BS-meter) than some Late Antiquity semi-nomad tribe's folk lore.
- We got to where we are today thanks to Enlightenment freeing education, not thanks to a god or his 'delusional son'.

All in the matter of six months. :D

How did I feel after?

Rebellious at first, then I turned 18 and could live my life as I saw fit. Loneliness didn't come into the picture, as fully 21 out of 23 in my catholic highschool class at graduation were either agnostic or full-out atheist.
Smells like... Freedom! :thumbs:

[starling]

I was discussing the whole "how do you know god exists, and how do u know that islam is right" with my mom, and she said that she just believes it, and she told me that if I didnt believe in God, then why do I pray to him (by that she means when I just talk to god) when things are bad? (and that was true, I didnt know why I did it, I think it just gave me comfort)That's the reason why. Because it gives you comfort. Pray to Allah, Yahweh, the IPU, Greenman, it doesn't matter which fictional character you ask for guidance from, you will feel comforted. Well, there's also the reason that, "It's just a habit." I assume your mom started you praying without your permission, why would it seem so strange to her that you hadn't stopped? People like familiarity after all.

She told me to just not believe in god if I wanted, and for some reason that just made me feel alone when I did it
It made me feel a little better thinking that I have this "friend" that looks out for me...Having friends who look out for you is fine. I have imaginary friends myself. You just have to be careful not to think that friend can actually do anything, because the fact they only exist for you means you are the only thing they can affect. Scientists can respect someone talking to God, or Jimmy the Invisible Duck, but they cannot respect someone who expects God to intervene in unfair situations, or someone who gives Jimmy a plate of food to eat, because as important as they are to you, imaginary friends cannot demonstrate evidence of their existence, cannot affect the real world. At least none that I have met yet. Please experiment all you like--just make no claims without evidence.

I don't know if this makes sense, but did any atheists ever come across the same kind of inner conflict?Not being real is a pretty sweet deal actually. It's those of us who have to exist, and be inescapably bound to a universe that will ultimately destroy us, it is those of us who are real that are the ones with troubles so hard.

[Norseman]

I'm pretty sure that a question along these lines has been asked before, and I'm not even sure if this is posted in the correct place..but here's my question:

I'm not sure if most the atheists on the forum were brought up in atheist households or if at some point they realized something and changed their beliefs...and if that was the case, then what was it that changed your mind, and how did it make you feel after?

Here's some background info for my question:
I was brought up a muslim (by name really) we didn't go to mosque or pray, the only thing we did was the fasting and eid, and maybe read a lil of the Quran, but now that I'm older I found myself questioning things more, I consider myself to be more of an agnostic.

I was discussing the whole "how do you know god exists, and how do u know that islam is right" with my mom, and she said that she just believes it, and she told me that if I didnt believe in God, then why do I pray to him (by that she means when I just talk to god) when things are bad? (and that was true, I didnt know why I did it, I think it just gave me comfort)
She told me to just not believe in god if I wanted, and for some reason that just made me feel alone when I did it
It made me feel a little better thinking that I have this "friend" that looks out for me...

I don't know if this makes sense, but did any atheists ever come across the same kind of inner conflict?

Not really, God has always been in the Santa Claus catagory with me. I believed in him for a few years, sort of half-heartedly I'll admit, but I did believe. Then later, it all just faded away as the obviousness of truth slipped in. I didn't learn about the problem of evil until I was older, but at the time I had pretty much the same reasoning "If God really does exist, why isn't it obvious?".

[mrzyphl]

I'll just summarize my story and save you a lot of boring details. Hope it makes sense.

I've had a rough life. I was an extremly shy kid, not to bright and didn't know what I would do with my life. I've never been in trouble with the law but have had my share of troubles. When I reached my lowest point I knew I had to change. My confidence was shattered, I was depressed and had severe anxiety. Until then I essentially thought of God as a spy in the sky whom I resented and was always pissed off at. I turned to God with all my heart hoping to turn my life around.

Well, things started happening for me and I gave God all the credit. I was kind of in a euphoric stupor for months before it began to wear off. I saw that things weren't that great after all. My job sucked. I wasn't going anywhere. I suddenly realized everything I gave God credit for was really ME! I gave an imaginary being more respect and love than I gave myself.

It was at that point I began to thirst for true knowledge which eventually destroyed every supernatural belief that had been washed into my brain. For years I read all the self help books gobbledygook looking for answers. I started to educate myself and saw a whole new universe.
A universe that does just fine without any Gods.

Oh, by the way, I'm doing pretty good now:0)