Musings On A Titan Shore

[llanitedave]

Of the photos published as part of the Huygens landing on Titan, there is one that I can't seem to get off of my mind...

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA07231

Possibly I'm being premature, but what I see in that picture is a shoreline, with bays and inlets, offshore islands, a beach, and maybe river channels running down into it. The liquid is organic, not water -- what, I don't know. That land is probably ice. You can probably imagine sand-sized ice grains pounded by ethane waves along the beach strand, and possibly tides that slowly roll in and out over the weeks of Titan's orbit.

Here is a world of complexity, depth, and beauty comparable to our own, a world that is dynamic, ever-changing, yet subtle. Its a treasure of both vast magnificence and tiny, intricate structure, constantly reshaping itself, yet making new order and new beauty as fast as the old is washed away.

It's an exquisite world, yet one not made for us. Its beauty is not for our eyes. We are fortunate for the opportunity to glimpse a tiny, ephemeral portion of it through a fuzzy window, opened and closed in a mere moment, but we can never be part of that world, or make it part of us. To share it, to posses it, is to destroy it. It is not ours to have.

The idea that the beauty and vastness of nature is not intended for our exclusive benefit is one that seems anathema to much of Christian tradition and philosophy, yet I see no clearer proof of the fact than this picture from Titan.

And this, to me, humbling and overwhelming as it is, reminding us of our own small pretentiousness, is the greatest benefit that science can bestow. That's why I love it.

[Thundun]

Nice post, thank you.

[Atheos]

Interesting thoughts. I wonder if ID zealots would suggest that the lines in this photograph couldn't have happened by "random chance?" It's interesting to see how the physical laws that create observable patterns on our planet do the same thing on planets completely inhospitable to human life.

-Atheos

[HaysooChreesto!]

Excellent post.

[llanitedave]

The random chance argument has always been an iffy proposition.

[jonesg]

Of the photos published as part of the Huygens landing on Titan, there is one that I can't seem to get off of my mind...

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA07231

Possibly I'm being premature, but what I see in that picture is a shoreline, with bays and inlets, offshore islands, a beach, and maybe river channels running down into it. The liquid is organic, not water -- what, I don't know. That land is probably ice. You can probably imagine sand-sized ice grains pounded by ethane waves along the beach strand, and possibly tides that slowly roll in and out over the weeks of Titan's orbit.

Here is a world of complexity, depth, and beauty comparable to our own, a world that is dynamic, ever-changing, yet subtle. Its a treasure of both vast magnificence and tiny, intricate structure, constantly reshaping itself, yet making new order and new beauty as fast as the old is washed away.

It's an exquisite world, yet one not made for us. Its beauty is not for our eyes. We are fortunate for the opportunity to glimpse a tiny, ephemeral portion of it through a fuzzy window, opened and closed in a mere moment, but we can never be part of that world, or make it part of us. To share it, to posses it, is to destroy it. It is not ours to have.

The idea that the beauty and vastness of nature is not intended for our exclusive benefit is one that seems anathema to much of Christian tradition and philosophy, yet I see no clearer proof of the fact than this picture from Titan.

And this, to me, humbling and overwhelming as it is, reminding us of our own small pretentiousness, is the greatest benefit that science can bestow. That's why I love it.

and God created it, neat.

[crocodile deathroll]

Just as well it did not land in a puddle, pool or lake of liquid methane and landed on solid ground :D

[llanitedave]

Just as well it did not land in a puddle, pool or lake of liquid methane and landed on solid ground :D

Supposedly, it would have floated...

[llanitedave]

and God created it, neat.

Which God?

[Rhaedas]

And for what purpose? So we humans could come across it later, and convince ourselves even more that it seems God is lacking in necessity for the universe to exist?

God, the mighty deceiver. Or just not. You pick.

[TheBigKahoona]

And for what purpose? So we humans could come across it later, and convince ourselves even more that it seems God is lacking in necessity for the universe to exist?

There could be aliens in far off galaxies and captain Kurk flying around in the enterprise. It still doesn't contradict anything in the Bible.

[Jack the Bodiless]

Would these "far-off galaxies" be above or below the Firmament dome that covers the flat Earth?

[Liberty]

how do you know the liquid is organic?

[Morethancaffine]

how do you know the liquid is organic?

What non-organic substances would be liquid at 94 or 95K, (thats about -180C or -290F) at a pressure of 1.5 to 1.6 bars? Aren't stone and metals solid at this temperature and pressure?

[leccy]

Super post Llanitedave.

The pictures are stunning. The similarities in the landforms and dissimilarities in the materials that they appear to be composed of when compared to Earth are striking and intriguing.

[Liberty]

What non-organic substances would be liquid at 94 or 95K, (thats about -180C or -290F) at a pressure of 1.5 to 1.6 bars? Aren't stone and metals solid at this temperature and pressure?
Hmmm I don't think that would neccessarily mean it is organic. but it would be amazing if there is some form of organic matter that can survive in that climate

[dmarker]

Which God?

Obviously EHECATL, the Aztec god of wind.

But seriously great post. It's just so strange to look at that alien landscape and see how much it looks like our own.

[llanitedave]

What non-organic substances would be liquid at 94 or 95K, (thats about -180C or -290F) at a pressure of 1.5 to 1.6 bars? Aren't stone and metals solid at this temperature and pressure?

Actually, there's not a guarantee that the "seas" of Titan even are liquid -- although I suspect they are. But, they might be a tarry coating floating on top of a liquid, which would eliminate the "waves pounding on the shore" idea, or they might simply be vast "dry lake beds" like those in the deserts of earth: sometimes covered with thin layers of liquid, flat and dry the rest of the time.

We know a lot more than we knew two weeks ago, but we still don't know much. There won't be another probe like Huygens anytime soon, so I think the little bit of knowledge we can squeeze from this mission will have to do, probably for the rest of the lives of this generation.

[g-21-lto]

how do you know the liquid is organic?
It was always my understanding that we had taken spectroscopic data of light passing through Titan's atmosphere and found that its major constituents were C, H, O, N, etc. in the right amounts for hydrocarbons and free N2. It's believed, and I think it's based both off these observations and calculations of freezing point/surface P-T conditions that the liquid on the surface is either liquid methane or liquid ethane.

Can anyone back me up / bat me down here?

[Autonemesis]

Hmmm I don't think that would neccessarily mean it is organic. but it would be amazing if there is some form of organic matter that can survive in that climate

They are talking about organic material in the chemical sense, not in the biological sense. Organic compounds are those which feature carbon-hydrogen and carbon-carbon bonds, and methane is one of the simplest of these. Ethane, propane, and butane are also organic, as are substances such as benzene, toluene, paraffin, and the plastics that make the modern world possible. They are called organic because the first ones identified were associated with organic activity (like crude oil and compost heaps). But organic compounds do not necessarily imply biological activity.

At Titan's temperature, methane is liquid, but easily volatized to a gas, just like water is on the surface of the Earth.

[Autonemesis]

It was always my understanding that we had taken spectroscopic data of light passing through Titan's atmosphere and found that its major constituents were C, H, O, N, etc. in the right amounts for hydrocarbons and free N2. It's believed, and I think it's based both off these observations and calculations of freezing point/surface P-T conditions that the liquid on the surface is either liquid methane or liquid ethane.

Can anyone back me up / bat me down here?

Methane has been detected in Titan's atmosphere directly by its spectral signature. Passive optical spectroscopy is not able to identify individual elements bound up in molecules, but only the molecules themselves and certain elements that can exist not bound up in a molecule. So while it is correct that scientists have detected methane on Titan, it is a mistake to think they did so by detecting carbon and hydrogen in the proper proportions to form methane. Methane and ethane are directly observable, as are many other compounds and elements, like nitrogen (N2) and argon.

[llanitedave]

Actually, there's not a guarantee that the "seas" of Titan even are liquid -- although I suspect they are. But, they might be a tarry coating floating on top of a liquid, which would eliminate the "waves pounding on the shore" idea, or they might simply be vast "dry lake beds" like those in the deserts of earth: sometimes covered with thin layers of liquid, flat and dry the rest of the time.


It appears my first musings were mistaken. Huygens actually landed "offshore," but not into any free-standing liquid. What look to be seas from above actually are more like desert flood plains -- with washed-in ice pebbles on the surface, and the liquid methane saturating the soil at a very shallow depth. Whether there is any standing liquid is still not known. There obviously must be at least occasional flows of liquid methane in the channels, and rain from the atmosphere.

A curious place, to say the least.

[Liberty]

They are talking about organic material in the chemical sense, not in the biological sense. Organic compounds are those which feature carbon-hydrogen and carbon-carbon bonds, and methane is one of the simplest of these. Ethane, propane, and butane are also organic, as are substances such as benzene, toluene, paraffin, and the plastics that make the modern world possible. They are called organic because the first ones identified were associated with organic activity (like crude oil and compost heaps). But organic compounds do not necessarily imply biological activity.

At Titan's temperature, methane is liquid, but easily volatized to a gas, just like water is on the surface of the Earth.

Ah I see thanks for clearing that up