I took a Scientology stress test

[Ebonmuse]

Some IIDB posters may remember my previous encounter with Scientology (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=103520) in New York City. Last weekend I happened to run into them again.

This time it was in the Port Authority, where they had a booth set up by the stairs going down to the subway level and were offering free "stress tests" to passersby. I had about an hour to kill, so I thought it might be fun to see for myself what this was all about.

There were two people manning the booth, an older salesman type in a suit who was aggressively pitching his spiel to everyone who walked by, and a younger woman. I walked past, they made me the offer, and I sat down, figuring that if nothing else, I could at least keep them busy for a little while so they wouldn't bother anyone else. The woman handed me the famous e-meter, which looked like nothing more than a metal can connected to a piece of electronic equipment with a needle that swung back and forth.

We began with her asking me to think of an experience from my past; I thought of the day I graduated from college. The needle started swinging, of course, and she wasn't shy about telling me the cause. "That's stress," she said, in the tone of voice that a doctor would normally use to say, "You have cancer." She asked me to tell her what I had been thinking about, so I did. She asked if it had been a stressful time for me and I admitted that yes, it was in a way, since I wasn't sure (and still am not) exactly where my life will go in the future, but I made sure to add that it was also a happy occasion, and I'm glad for the opportunities I had.

As the interview wore on, I kept an eye on the movement of the needle, and realized quickly that what made it shift, more than anything else, was when I moved my hand. I did my best to keep still, and lo and behold, the fluctuations died away almost to nothing. The interviewer didn't seem obviously disconcerted by this, but I did notice that every time the needle shifted, however slightly, even if it wasn't beyond the halfway point marked on the dial, she promptly identified it as stress. This probably wasn't in the game plan; no doubt it was supposed to be stuck all the way at the far end of the dial throughout the interview.

The conversation went on. She asked me about my goals (I'd love to be an author one day, but I'm not published yet - she sympathetically remarked that that must be very stressful for me), if there was anything that concerned me or that I didn't like about my life (my girlfriend and I are going to graduate school in different states and we don't get to see each other as often as we'd like, but other than that I'm generally very happy and wouldn't trade my life for anyone else's if I could), and if there was anything that I felt was holding me back or preventing me from achieving my goals (no). The more she talked, the more interested I became in how she was probing me - it reminded me a lot of the born-again Christians who insist that atheists are obviously very depressed and miserable without God, even if we say we're not. She seemed to believe that I, whom she had met for the first time five minutes previously, had some kind of terrible dark secret that I only wished I could get off my shoulders somehow. Of course, this doesn't surprise me; as I mentioned in a post in the other thread, I believe Scientology, like most cults, appeals almost exclusively to people who are depressed, unhappy, or otherwise messed up - the social misfits and recluses who find comfort in the love bombing and acceptance in exchange for complete obedience that these groups offer their members.

The interview came to an end, and although I had been truthfully saying throughout it that in general I consider myself to be happy and well-adjusted, she gave me the predictable wrap-up spiel: you have stress in your life, you have problems, and we can help you. She offered me a copy of Dianetics and encouraged me to read the ad copy and quotes of enthusiastic approval from John Travolta, which I did. (It's probably worth noting that up until now she had not said anything to explicitly identify herself as a Scientologist.)

"So, is this free?" I asked.

She got a slightly pained look on her face. "Well, no," she admitted. "We'll give it to you in exchange for a donation."

I chuckled as if I had expected this all along, which I had. "How much and to whom?"

"Eight dollars," she said. "It's a donation to the Dianetics Center." After a moment she added, "The Church of Scientology."

I know what you're thinking - I was thinking the same thing at the time. They're the ones trying to tell me about their beliefs and they want me to pay them for the privilege? Christian fundamentalists give me literature too, but at least they don't expect me to pay them for it! The naked obsession with money this group has never ceases to amaze me.

Deciding to be a nice guy for this once and not turn the tables on her by asking about Xenu, Operating Thetan levels or anything like that, I politely declined that offer and walked away. She did, however, call after me one last time, inviting me to come back if I changed my mind, to which I smiled and said, "I have heard of the Church of Scientology, and I don't think that's likely, but thank you for your time." I walked away without looking back at her expression in response to that.

So, lessons for other infidels who may come across these booths and be tempted:
1. As long as you're not displaying knowledge of things you're not supposed to know about (which upsets them very easily - see the other thread), they'll sit and chat with you for quite a while. It could be a good way to keep others from being ensnared.
2. Keep your hand still and don't let the interview itself make you nervous, and the e-meter won't work.
3. Ask them why they're charging you when they're the ones who want you to join them. :D (Bonus points: Ask why you couldn't just check the book out of your local library.)
4. Throw them off balance by maintaining a cheery optimism.
And 5. John Travolta had better not quit his day job, because he sucks as a book critic.

[Proxima Centauri]

Great way of dealing with Scientologists, Ebonmuse.
:Cheeky:

[whichphilosophy]

Some IIDB posters may remember my previous encounter with Scientology (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=103520) in New York City. Last weekend I happened to run into them again.

This time it was in the Port Authority, where they had a booth set up by the stairs going down to the subway level and were offering free "stress tests" to passersby. I had about an hour to kill, so I thought it might be fun to see for myself what this was all about.

There were two people manning the booth, an older salesman type in a suit who was aggressively pitching his spiel to everyone who walked by, and a younger woman. I walked past, they made me the offer, and I sat down, figuring that if nothing else, I could at least keep them busy for a little while so they wouldn't bother anyone else. The woman handed me the famous e-meter, which looked like nothing more than a metal can connected to a piece of electronic equipment with a needle that swung back and forth.

We began with her asking me to think of an experience from my past; I thought of the day I graduated from college. The needle started swinging, of course, and she wasn't shy about telling me the cause. "That's stress," she said, in the tone of voice that a doctor would normally use to say, "You have cancer." She asked me to tell her what I had been thinking about, so I did. She asked if it had been a stressful time for me and I admitted that yes, it was in a way, since I wasn't sure (and still am not) exactly where my life will go in the future, but I made sure to add that it was also a happy occasion, and I'm glad for the opportunities I had.

As the interview wore on, I kept an eye on the movement of the needle, and realized quickly that what made it shift, more than anything else, was when I moved my hand. I did my best to keep still, and lo and behold, the fluctuations died away almost to nothing. The interviewer didn't seem obviously disconcerted by this, but I did notice that every time the needle shifted, however slightly, even if it wasn't beyond the halfway point marked on the dial, she promptly identified it as stress. This probably wasn't in the game plan; no doubt it was supposed to be stuck all the way at the far end of the dial throughout the interview.

The conversation went on. She asked me about my goals (I'd love to be an author one day, but I'm not published yet - she sympathetically remarked that that must be very stressful for me), if there was anything that concerned me or that I didn't like about my life (my girlfriend and I are going to graduate school in different states and we don't get to see each other as often as we'd like, but other than that I'm generally very happy and wouldn't trade my life for anyone else's if I could), and if there was anything that I felt was holding me back or preventing me from achieving my goals (no). The more she talked, the more interested I became in how she was probing me - it reminded me a lot of the born-again Christians who insist that atheists are obviously very depressed and miserable without God, even if we say we're not. She seemed to believe that I, whom she had met for the first time five minutes previously, had some kind of terrible dark secret that I only wished I could get off my shoulders somehow. Of course, this doesn't surprise me; as I mentioned in a post in the other thread, I believe Scientology, like most cults, appeals almost exclusively to people who are depressed, unhappy, or otherwise messed up - the social misfits and recluses who find comfort in the love bombing and acceptance in exchange for complete obedience that these groups offer their members.

The interview came to an end, and although I had been truthfully saying throughout it that in general I consider myself to be happy and well-adjusted, she gave me the predictable wrap-up spiel: you have stress in your life, you have problems, and we can help you. She offered me a copy of Dianetics and encouraged me to read the ad copy and quotes of enthusiastic approval from John Travolta, which I did. (It's probably worth noting that up until now she had not said anything to explicitly identify herself as a Scientologist.)

"So, is this free?" I asked.

She got a slightly pained look on her face. "Well, no," she admitted. "We'll give it to you in exchange for a donation."

I chuckled as if I had expected this all along, which I had. "How much and to whom?"

"Eight dollars," she said. "It's a donation to the Dianetics Center." After a moment she added, "The Church of Scientology."

I know what you're thinking - I was thinking the same thing at the time. They're the ones trying to tell me about their beliefs and they want me to pay them for the privilege? Christian fundamentalists give me literature too, but at least they don't expect me to pay them for it! The naked obsession with money this group has never ceases to amaze me.

Deciding to be a nice guy for this once and not turn the tables on her by asking about Xenu, Operating Thetan levels or anything like that, I politely declined that offer and walked away. She did, however, call after me one last time, inviting me to come back if I changed my mind, to which I smiled and said, "I have heard of the Church of Scientology, and I don't think that's likely, but thank you for your time." I walked away without looking back at her expression in response to that.

So, lessons for other infidels who may come across these booths and be tempted:
1. As long as you're not displaying knowledge of things you're not supposed to know about (which upsets them very easily - see the other thread), they'll sit and chat with you for quite a while. It could be a good way to keep others from being ensnared.
2. Keep your hand still and don't let the interview itself make you nervous, and the e-meter won't work.
3. Ask them why they're charging you when they're the ones who want you to join them. :D (Bonus points: Ask why you couldn't just check the book out of your local library.)
4. Throw them off balance by maintaining a cheery optimism.
And 5. John Travolta had better not quit his day job, because he sucks as a book critic.

I'm sure you are well educated and a good writer. However the main part of this is really anecdotal complete with impressions concepts and opinions.

Quoting from some 1,500 articles of xenu would not give you any knowledge of the subject. As for "thetans" that's pretty much well known and old hat.
I don't know how mentioning this is turning the tables. Normally the staff members don't bother to get into discussions as they will spend the whole day.

Nonetheless if you claim to know about the subject you could at least have understood the e-meter and what it actually reads on. Because in this article you shot yourself in the foot.

If you move your hands the needle will move of course. If you have dry hands, wet hands move about generally it will give reactions on the meter. However if a practicioner regards all hand swings, fidgets and movement as needle movements they would be a gibbering idiot.

So let me see one pays quite a lot of money to swing my hands around while holding two cans to get some dummy reads. I'm not that mental

Even though I would regard myself as not that knowlegable on the subject in comparision to the technical contents, one can read the pattern of reads even through the movements.

Some people have infiltrated organisations and told to just move a little to avoid a read. However one can still read thorugh this due to the characteristics of the needle.

Nothing magical about this. The methodology is done during the courses.

You seem to have an obsession with this subject but do you really think many of these people will be interested in a debate about the xenu website and any others or the old often discredited or irrelevant articles.

But why complain about the costs for something you don't want to buy anyway??

You don't believe in a spiritual entity fine, so what. I hope you don't want everyone to believe in what you believe in. I'm not bothered if someone does not believe in any diety or spiritual nature. That's another's choice

Not being sarcastic here, but you have some good writing skills. What you write is interesting. I only publish short articles from time to time in virtually publications (hence no one reads them anyway).

You've attacked the very subject that deals as a sub product with the arts and writing. How increase ones skills at presentation, self confidence and marketing. I don't think you need all of these things.

After all if an aspiring musician writer or artist or anyone else pays for short courses then don't you think it is logically sensible that they then are able to afford to pay for the bigger ones??

Who knows I may find myself reading one of your books one day.

[Ebonmuse]

As for "thetans" that's pretty much well known and old hat.

The last time I encountered Scientologists and mentioned thetans, they denied that they believed in any such thing (see the other thread). Perhaps you should contact them so they can get their story straight.

[whichphilosophy]

The last time I encountered Scientologists and mentioned thetans, they denied that they believed in any such thing (see the other thread). Perhaps you should contact them so they can get their story straight.

I would find that puzzling. I'm not saying you are wrong but I don't have the full picture of what happened. They could have been new members who had done a basic course/miscommunication or maybe they were not interested in talking about xenu.

If I contacted them it would be sort of heresay. It would be best coming from the horses bottom. (That how people refer to me by the way if I'm the source).

Lets face it I'm sure you're not always charming when you talk to the staffs so they may have wanted to get rid of you.

You could have written a letter to the local organisation and complain (but they would not answer by policy a rude or one with old articles from xenu.
The definition of Thetan in most of the books The first course above a basic course has information.

It's a bit like the staff in a coffee shop saying it doesn't serve coffee and they've never heard of it. So I can see your point. :confused:

You have to admit if having read these various websites you've then gone in to find something wrong, but all you have to go on is some persons there denied the existance of thetans. You're facing the same problem others have had. :Cheeky:

[But]

...



Nice.

:thumbs:

[Crucifiction]

Way to deal with these hacks.

I abhore Scientology more than any other small cult. L Ron Hubbard KNEWm and openly ADMITTED several times, that Dianetics were bullshit; and yet people still don't seem to get it.

:banghead:

[Philippe*]

Way to deal with these hacks.

I abhore Scientology more than any other small cult. L Ron Hubbard KNEWm and openly ADMITTED several times, that Dianetics were bullshit; and yet people still don't seem to get it.

:banghead:

Have you got reliable sources ? It would be interesting, I can not believe that people into so "cerebral" stuffs don't get it, it would deserve a kind of Awards, it is too pathetically ironic, I don't know. :huh:

Philippe

[Worldtraveller]

Have you got reliable sources ?

Pick one! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22L.+Ron+Hubbard%22+interview+start+religion)

Cheers,
Lane

[Philippe*]

Pick one! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22L.+Ron+Hubbard%22+interview+start+religion)

Cheers,
Lane

Thanks, I get the point now :thumbs:

Philippe

[Vajradhara]

as if measuring galvanic skin response could tell you anything about the consciousness of an individual... heheh...

silly rabbits, tricks are for kids.

[whichphilosophy]

as if measuring galvanic skin response could tell you anything about the consciousness of an individual... heheh...

silly rabbits, tricks are for kids.

Absolutely right measuring skin galvenic skin responses is pretty unreliable and is the reason lie detectors are not foolproof and why the e-meter is not run on that basis.

[whichphilosophy]

Way to deal with these hacks.

I abhore Scientology more than any other small cult. L Ron Hubbard KNEWm and openly ADMITTED several times, that Dianetics were bullshit; and yet people still don't seem to get it.

:banghead:

So where did L Ron Hubbard state that. The Google reference contains a lot of heresay quotes.

Let me just take a few from your reliable source:

Firstly from my own knowledge of English Law and my rusty knowledge of the US legal system

Rumours, heresay, and assumption do not constitute fact.
Quote here:

L. Ron Hubbard is widely rumored to have said "The way to make a million
dollars is to start a religion."
....Since I actually read the Rocky Mountain News it is very clear what L Ron Hubbard stated. End quote

Wow really incriminating stuff.

This looks more like National Inquirer stuff than documented facts.

Just another snippet. It includes a 1982 interview with L Ron Hubbard Junior (Ron De Wolfe) which he later retracted. He filed a suit to seize L Ron Hubbards estate on the basis the latter was dead or incompetent. He lost the case after L Ron Hubbard stated he was not dead.

Was in interesting topic at the time

But hey who cares about facts. Just circulate this with the other "rumours. I'm not referring to you here, but don't you just think that simply again downloading a huge bunch of web data (much of it repeating each other) is really a poor way to present an arguement.

Take an example from those on Science and Skeptism. Some brilliant minds at work here....

Take aside this there is a person named Gerry Armstrong. Later he was caught red-handed on tape (authorised by the LAPD by the way) conspiring to plant incriminating evidence into one of the organisations. This goes back a few years as I recall. He did also say, You don't have to prove a godam thing. You don't have to prove..... You just have to accuse.

So at least if you present a case, be careful to trust the sources you click on as you should check these out. Can be difficult or confusing at times.

Can't anyone just use their own words and experience. Using factual references or sequential data of events would be more interesting?

[Godless Wonder]

Absolutely right measuring skin galvenic skin responses is pretty unreliable and is the reason lie detectors are not foolproof and why the e-meter is not run on that basis. Eh? L. Ron Hubbard's e-meter patent. (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/hubbard-patent.html)
Because the instrument is primarily intended for the detection in changes in the body resistance of a human subject precautions must be taken to minimize changes in the meter deflection due to other causes . . .

[Yeshi]

strange, whichphil, on the lowermost entry in google it is qouted as 1949 SCIFI conference somewhere.

I walked away without looking back at her expression in response to that.

should have told her to get connected to galvanometer beforehand. :D
Poor thing would have conducted she has cancer, and payed 500$ for the next series of 'cleansing' mumbojumbo.

I had similar experiences years ago when i travelled the world as a student: most stress was generated by their not getting the 8$ for the 'book'.

[whichphilosophy]

Eh? L. Ron Hubbard's e-meter patent. (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/hubbard-patent.html)


Yes.

[whichphilosophy]

Pick one! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22L.+Ron+Hubbard%22+interview+start+religion)

Cheers,
Lane

There's 6,500 different postings quoted Have you read them all. Like I said before how is a web dump a tangeable statement or a support of one when the first few are somewhat based, and they say on inconclusive rumours?
See my post further down.

[Proxima Centauri]

<snip>

[Yeshi]

its actually covering the ears and shouting loud 'Lalalala!'

who can for ghodssake beleive in a RELIGION started by a SCIFI writer?

[Donald_McRonald]

its actually covering the ears and shouting loud 'Lalalala!'

who can for ghodssake beleive in a RELIGION started by a SCIFI writer?

Scientologists and Mormons.

[DougP]

I just want to preemtively remind everyone to stay on topic. Also, personally issues with other users should be worked out in private through email or private messages, please do not bring them up in thread. Thanks.

-Doug

[Vajradhara]

Absolutely right measuring skin galvenic skin responses is pretty unreliable and is the reason lie detectors are not foolproof and why the e-meter is not run on that basis.


Namaste Whichphilosophy,

i beg to differ, the e-meter is run on exactly that principle. there is no other quantifiable measurement that they can make with the device. furthermore, lie detectors work on more than the galvanic skin response measurements, which is what the e-meter solely relies upon.

the normal lie detector tests measure galvanic skin reponse, sure, but they also measure heart rate, blood pressure and eye dilation.

if the e-meter could do all of that... it still couldn't tell someone about the condition of another consciousness, whether stressed or unstressed.

heck, why not just use a mood ring? it would be just as effective.

[whichphilosophy]

its actually covering the ears and shouting loud 'Lalalala!'

who can for ghodssake beleive in a RELIGION started by a SCIFI writer?

Then don't believe it. Just observe for yourself and make your own decisions.

It's irrelevant if a person is a sci fi writer or a janitor or a rocket scientist, but as to what is true.

Only we can determine through our own determinsm and unbias what truth is. Different people and cultures have different concepts.

[whichphilosophy]

Namaste Whichphilosophy,

i beg to differ, the e-meter is run on exactly that principle. there is no other quantifiable measurement that they can make with the device. furthermore, lie detectors work on more than the galvanic skin response measurements, which is what the e-meter solely relies upon.

the normal lie detector tests measure galvanic skin reponse, sure, but they also measure heart rate, blood pressure and eye dilation.

if the e-meter could do all of that... it still couldn't tell someone about the condition of another consciousness, whether stressed or unstressed.

heck, why not just use a mood ring? it would be just as effective.

Hi there. I did use the e-meter years ago. I could only say is just study the stuff without listening to opinions either way. There is a response of dry and wet hands shaking or squeezing the can opposed to the actual reads. The information on the websites tends to get this confused and lie detector is not really right.

[But]

I think it should be fairly obvious by now what the Scientology bullcrap can do to one's critical thinking, if you know what I mean. Just read this thread.



:huh:

[whichphilosophy]

I think it should be fairly obvious by now what the Scientology bullcrap can do to one's critical thinking, if you know what I mean. Just read this thread.



:huh:

Like I said, no problem with your opinion, but where specifically on this thread, give a for instance.

[Killer Mike]

Some IIDB posters may remember my previous encounter with Scientology (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=103520) in New York City. Last weekend I happened to run into them again.

This time it was in the Port Authority, where they had a booth set up by the stairs going down to the subway level and were offering free "stress tests" to passersby. I had about an hour to kill, so I thought it might be fun to see for myself what this was all about.

There were two people manning the booth, an older salesman type in a suit who was aggressively pitching his spiel to everyone who walked by, and a younger woman. I walked past, they made me the offer, and I sat down, figuring that if nothing else, I could at least keep them busy for a little while so they wouldn't bother anyone else. The woman handed me the famous e-meter, which looked like nothing more than a metal can connected to a piece of electronic equipment with a needle that swung back and forth.

We began with her asking me to think of an experience from my past; I thought of the day I graduated from college. The needle started swinging, of course, and she wasn't shy about telling me the cause. "That's stress," she said, in the tone of voice that a doctor would normally use to say, "You have cancer." She asked me to tell her what I had been thinking about, so I did. She asked if it had been a stressful time for me and I admitted that yes, it was in a way, since I wasn't sure (and still am not) exactly where my life will go in the future, but I made sure to add that it was also a happy occasion, and I'm glad for the opportunities I had.

As the interview wore on, I kept an eye on the movement of the needle, and realized quickly that what made it shift, more than anything else, was when I moved my hand. I did my best to keep still, and lo and behold, the fluctuations died away almost to nothing. The interviewer didn't seem obviously disconcerted by this, but I did notice that every time the needle shifted, however slightly, even if it wasn't beyond the halfway point marked on the dial, she promptly identified it as stress. This probably wasn't in the game plan; no doubt it was supposed to be stuck all the way at the far end of the dial throughout the interview.

The conversation went on. She asked me about my goals (I'd love to be an author one day, but I'm not published yet - she sympathetically remarked that that must be very stressful for me), if there was anything that concerned me or that I didn't like about my life (my girlfriend and I are going to graduate school in different states and we don't get to see each other as often as we'd like, but other than that I'm generally very happy and wouldn't trade my life for anyone else's if I could), and if there was anything that I felt was holding me back or preventing me from achieving my goals (no). The more she talked, the more interested I became in how she was probing me - it reminded me a lot of the born-again Christians who insist that atheists are obviously very depressed and miserable without God, even if we say we're not. She seemed to believe that I, whom she had met for the first time five minutes previously, had some kind of terrible dark secret that I only wished I could get off my shoulders somehow. Of course, this doesn't surprise me; as I mentioned in a post in the other thread, I believe Scientology, like most cults, appeals almost exclusively to people who are depressed, unhappy, or otherwise messed up - the social misfits and recluses who find comfort in the love bombing and acceptance in exchange for complete obedience that these groups offer their members.

The interview came to an end, and although I had been truthfully saying throughout it that in general I consider myself to be happy and well-adjusted, she gave me the predictable wrap-up spiel: you have stress in your life, you have problems, and we can help you. She offered me a copy of Dianetics and encouraged me to read the ad copy and quotes of enthusiastic approval from John Travolta, which I did. (It's probably worth noting that up until now she had not said anything to explicitly identify herself as a Scientologist.)

"So, is this free?" I asked.

She got a slightly pained look on her face. "Well, no," she admitted. "We'll give it to you in exchange for a donation."

I chuckled as if I had expected this all along, which I had. "How much and to whom?"

"Eight dollars," she said. "It's a donation to the Dianetics Center." After a moment she added, "The Church of Scientology."

I know what you're thinking - I was thinking the same thing at the time. They're the ones trying to tell me about their beliefs and they want me to pay them for the privilege? Christian fundamentalists give me literature too, but at least they don't expect me to pay them for it! The naked obsession with money this group has never ceases to amaze me.

Deciding to be a nice guy for this once and not turn the tables on her by asking about Xenu, Operating Thetan levels or anything like that, I politely declined that offer and walked away. She did, however, call after me one last time, inviting me to come back if I changed my mind, to which I smiled and said, "I have heard of the Church of Scientology, and I don't think that's likely, but thank you for your time." I walked away without looking back at her expression in response to that.

So, lessons for other infidels who may come across these booths and be tempted:
1. As long as you're not displaying knowledge of things you're not supposed to know about (which upsets them very easily - see the other thread), they'll sit and chat with you for quite a while. It could be a good way to keep others from being ensnared.
2. Keep your hand still and don't let the interview itself make you nervous, and the e-meter won't work.
3. Ask them why they're charging you when they're the ones who want you to join them. :D (Bonus points: Ask why you couldn't just check the book out of your local library.)
4. Throw them off balance by maintaining a cheery optimism.
And 5. John Travolta had better not quit his day job, because he sucks as a book critic.


Dont forget to clear all of your Ingrams!! Better to be a clear then a pre-clear :Cheeky: :rolling:

[whichphilosophy]

Dont forget to clear all of your Ingrams!! Better to be a clear then a pre-clear :Cheeky: :rolling:

Ingram is a town in the USA. By using the wrong word thus shot yourself in the foot.

[Killer Mike]

<insult deleted>

[Norseman]

If you've ever had a cold day in which you held your hand near a window you might notice the condensed water forming on the glass. Your skin is always giving off water in the form of steam, your hands and feet are especially strong producers of steam. When you're holding their stupid little cans, the steam accumulates on the can's surface and makes a connection which becomes stronger and fainter based mostly on how much moisture your skin is giving off. When you're stressed or a little edgy, your skin tends to give off more moisture, in some cases this becomes so severe that you sweat. However, it also requires the electrical current present in the human body, due to electrical neuroactivity. My guess is that by moving your arm or hand, you stimulate the nerves in your body near the can and the electrical strength grows tremendously. They probably run the electrical signal through an amplifier and then across their electromagnet to swivel the needle.

What's important to note in all that is that if you chalk your hands, you'll reduce your signal strength quite significantly. Or, if you're the kind of person who can keep your stress down and stay still, they'll never read much of anything. One of the big problems with that technology is that will give false positives with people who stress easily or with people who just have eratic skin moisture. It also will give false negatives on those exploits mentioned above.

Now, curiously, I went to a scientology private boarding school in the Mohave desert (I stayed for only about a month before I took a walk in the desert just to piss them off enough to kick me out, since they didn't want to just let me out) and among the things they had us do was bulbaiting (sp?). The object of this was to stay in a chair perfectly still not even blinking while someone screams obscenties at you at the top of their lungs, or pretends to hit you (among other ingenious ways to coax people to move). The longer you lasted, the better. Aside from the counselor, Jeb, I was the best at not doing anything (well hey, I'm lazy, I've had lots of practice ;) ). Anyway, it just occured to me what that training was for. If they believe that their cans measure stress, then they probably also believe that training you in bulbaiting (sp?) is training you to allieviate stress.

[whichphilosophy]

If you've ever had a cold day in which you held your hand near a window you might notice the condensed water forming on the glass. Your skin is always giving off water in the form of steam, your hands and feet are especially strong producers of steam. When you're holding their stupid little cans, the steam accumulates on the can's surface and makes a connection which becomes stronger and fainter based mostly on how much moisture your skin is giving off. When you're stressed or a little edgy, your skin tends to give off more moisture, in some cases this becomes so severe that you sweat. However, it also requires the electrical current present in the human body, due to electrical neuroactivity. My guess is that by moving your arm or hand, you stimulate the nerves in your body near the can and the electrical strength grows tremendously. They probably run the electrical signal through an amplifier and then across their electromagnet to swivel the needle.

What's important to note in all that is that if you chalk your hands, you'll reduce your signal strength quite significantly. Or, if you're the kind of person who can keep your stress down and stay still, they'll never read much of anything. One of the big problems with that technology is that will give false positives with people who stress easily or with people who just have eratic skin moisture. It also will give false negatives on those exploits mentioned above.

Now, curiously, I went to a scientology private boarding school in the Mohave desert (I stayed for only about a month before I took a walk in the desert just to piss them off enough to kick me out, since they didn't want to just let me out) and among the things they had us do was bulbaiting (sp?). The object of this was to stay in a chair perfectly still not even blinking while someone screams obscenties at you at the top of their lungs, or pretends to hit you (among other ingenious ways to coax people to move). The longer you lasted, the better. Aside from the counselor, Jeb, I was the best at not doing anything (well hey, I'm lazy, I've had lots of practice ;) ). Anyway, it just occured to me what that training was for. If they believe that their cans measure stress, then they probably also believe that training you in bulbaiting (sp?) is training you to allieviate stress.

The first bit on the e-meter is correct. Excess dryness or damp and or moving hands. In optimum conditions the reads are easy to see. The user has to be able to recognise these before using the meter, by doing practice drills.

A couple of drills we did were, to find out e number by telling from the reads, or their birthday.
To ensure there was no cheating or peeking. the person (whose number/birthdate you wanted to tell) would fold write it down and fold the paper and put it under a book.

As for the course, clearly (and you were at school then) you did not learn the purpose of the drills. I am not suggesting a lacking on your part, because the first action would be to see if the course was being run correctly in the first place. Maybe you were being rushed through? I was a royal pain in the butt because I wanted to examine every word and part of each of these drills before doing this.
However these drills proved excellent in handling lifes situations, and being more outgoing than before.Just if you like my perspective if you like.

[Yeshi]

but as to what is true.

so you are saying you beleive one can determine a person has cancer by the humidity of its palms/fingers in conjunction with personal questions that cause some emotions? And/or by waving hands more or less emotinally while answering aforementioned personal questions?

And that it is valid 'truth' of diagnosing?

[whichphilosophy]

so you are saying you beleive one can determine a person has cancer by the humidity of its palms/fingers in conjunction with personal questions that cause some emotions? And/or by waving hands more or less emotinally while answering aforementioned personal questions?

And that it is valid 'truth' of diagnosing?

I suppose it sounds like I'm being mysterious about this but it's not the case.
It's a read check out and apply subject and it gets confusing if I verbally described the book of meter drills. It's worse on the net when subject to interpretation.

If I was in the same room as yourself I would show you some reference pages as to what the meter does.This is just to let you look and evaluate without me telling you so to speak. This could lead to some confusion. (If you read some of my posts with some others you will understand).

I can quote some page references from "What is Scientology?" There are quite a few pages. I am sure this is in some libraries.

This will give you the opportunity to read this without my interpretation or someone else.

I have used one in the past (a long time ago actually)

I will quote a section Page 301 Confusions about the E-Meter

Confusions about what the E-Meter does or how it works can interfere with auditing. The meter does not diagnose or cure anything.

If you know a practicioner ask for a short test so he/she can give you a demonstration. Or if there is a local organisation ask them.

Don't worry I'm not trying to slip you into an organisation or convert you. (I haven't been able to get myself as I'm busy with work or my wife to go).

This is not the purpose of this forum. It is just a suggestion to how you can anwer the question. Me talking about it just won't achieve much.

Many of the colleagues I did courses with were engineers and they know the e-meter worked

Page 165 of the same book tells you a bit more.

I'm not trying to be a wise person here but just so you could read through the texts and get your own perspective of how the e-meter is dealing with spiritual well being.

The use ties up with auditing and the approach to better spiritual well being.

If someone however is happier, they can become more causative in life they are less likely to be ill etc. From a personal level and observing others this does work.

The subject of course deals with the spiritual side of things. Whether we are a universal self or individual beings is not for me to say to others of course. Its up to the individual, also what routes they take to higher advancement.

There is a checklist the auditor could show you in one of the organisations. This is just to show you how the session is set up and will answer your question about humidity wet and dry hands etc.

There was some confusion some years ago where there some articles going around saying the e-meter was being promoted as something that cures illnesses. This is not the case.

[But]

Confusions about what the E-Meter does or how it works can interfere with auditing. The meter does not diagnose or cure anything.


Okay, so what exactly does it do then?

Perhaps you could reformulate your last post so that it makes sense in some way?

[King Rat]

Any electronics guys around? Here is an e-meter schematic. (http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/Co$/emeter.gif)

[Dark Knight Bob]

However these drills proved excellent in handling lifes situations, and being more outgoing than before.

Would you knowingly sign up for a course that taught you how to drive but then also taught you that not paying attention to the traffic signals and driving on the wrong side of the road was a good idea?

Ever wonder that perhaps if you didn't do the latter you wouldn't need to suppress your fear emotions so much because common sense would impose certain restrictions such as the will of not wanting to drive into oncoming traffic.

Take up some fricking martial arts or something. At least that gets you fit as well as improve your self-confidence.


I can quote some page references from "What is Scientology?" There are quite a few pages. I am sure this is in some libraries.

I think you'll find there's a reason why scientology books aren't found in libraries. And it sure ain't to do with freedom of speech being infringed.

[whichphilosophy]

Would you knowingly sign up for a course that taught you how to drive but then also taught you that not paying attention to the traffic signals and driving on the wrong side of the road was a good idea?

Ever wonder that perhaps if you didn't do the latter you wouldn't need to suppress your fear emotions so much because common sense would impose certain restrictions such as the will of not wanting to drive into oncoming traffic.

Take up some fricking martial arts or something. At least that gets you fit as well as improve your self-confidence.


I think you'll find there's a reason why scientology books aren't found in libraries. And it sure ain't to do with freedom of speech being infringed.

Actually what you'e describing sounds like pretty much the way they drive in China PRC with something like 300 deaths a day. This especially applies to bicycles. If you don't believe me, visit China (if you have not done so already) and see this live.

However I don't see the relevance of the question? What has this got to do with anything anyway.

If there is such a course, then we can sign up some Chinese motorists as they will feel quite at home doing this.

I was not aware there was any conflict between the topic subject and martial arts.


Regards :wave: