Romans 1,1-17

[Newton's Cat]

Verse 11 is out of place - it should follow verse 15

[Toto]

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9 God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10 in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles.

14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome.

Could be - but it doesn't make a lot of difference.

[Newton's Cat]

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9 God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10 in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles.

14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome.

Could be - but it doesn't make a lot of difference.

8 First, I thank my God for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9 God, whom I serve with my whole heart, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10 in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

1 Paul, called to be an apostle ....

remove verses 3-6

verse 7 ends with 'Grace and peace from God our father'

The Greek text, after removal of the references to Jesus Christ, has exactly 1000 letters and is arranged in a sophisticated structure. Someone interpolated Jesus into the text - in fact, ALL references to Christianity throughout Romans are later interpolations.

My "thesis" is that Jesus Christ was invented by someone who used pre-existing texts and stories by Paul and others to formulate his religion.

Christianity was a cult started in much the same way Mormonism and later modern cults got going.

[sharon45]

1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—
2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,
4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
5Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.
6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.

Right away, paul should have had to follow this with a hefty explanation with plenty of actual scripture provided as evidence.

Of course jesus was an invention.

[Newton's Cat]

1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—
2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,
4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
5Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.
6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.

Right away, paul should have had to follow this with a hefty explanation with plenty of actual scripture provided as evidence.

Of course jesus was an invention.

If one reads in a normal "letter-reading" voice:

Paul ...

Then switches to a "religious fanatic" voice:

"a servant of Christ Jesus"

Then back to a normal voice until:

"concerning the Son him ...."

reading verses 3-6 in a "fanatic" voice (one can have great fun with these verses!)

Then continue the letter:

"To all those being in Rome ..."

Switching into the "fanatic" voice for:

"and Lord Jesus Christ"

"through Jesus Christ" in verse 8

"in the Gospel of the Son of him" in verse 9

One can do this all the way through Romans.

[sharon45]

Or as in what voice the whole passage should be read in is that of Mortimer Snerd.

[Clivedurdle]

I have thought this obvious switching from a calm to a manic Paul was evidence of Paul being bi-polar - is it more likely that this is evidence of two authors and interpolations? How would you prove that?

[CJD]

Right away, paul should have had to follow this with a hefty explanation with plenty of actual scripture provided as evidence.

Of course jesus was an invention.

I don't follow. The author is presumably writing to an audience (the majority, at least) that had already given itself over to being disciples of this Jesus. What would he need to prove? That his mission, once David's greater son had come, was to "call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith"? He didn't have modern, rationalist infidels in mind, you know. To them he would just say, "Quit worshipping _____ (fill in the blank), and do it Jesus' way, the way of the cross."

Best,

CJD

[sharon45]

I don't follow. The author is presumably writing to an audience (the majority, at least) that had already given itself over to being disciples of this Jesus. What would he need to prove? That his mission, once David's greater son had come, was to "call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith"? He didn't have modern, rationalist infidels in mind, you know. To them he would just say, "Quit worshipping _____ (fill in the blank), and do it Jesus' way, the way of the cross."

Best,

CJDHe had much bigger competition than rationalist infidels, he had fellow Jews around.