Damn O'Reilly

[Joe Meert]

Just got his guest to admit that Intelligent Design should be presented. This after about 4 minutes where the guest was doing well against O'reilly. Why, oh why do I watch this crap?

Cheers

Joe Meert

[Porky Pine]

Details Joe, we need details!

[Joe Meert]

Details Joe, we need details!


JM: I was so engrossed in the discussion that I did not pay attention to who was speaking (that and two kids wanting to wrestle me), but basically the guy (Gross??) was doing a good job handling O'Reilly and ID by saying it is not science etc etc. In the end, O'reilly got him to say that ID should be taught and the controversy should be taught. I suspect that the final words would have been 'but not in science class', but that never came out of course. It ended up looking like the guest agreed with O'reilly's position regarding ID. It may have been careful editing, but it was clearly a poor ending to the interview.

Cheers

Joe Meert

[ApatheticParasites]

I watched it aswell however I think you are misled... and that was the entire purpouse of the segment.

The guy said both sides should be presented but that only science should be presented in a science class, and that ID is not a real scientific theory but instead consists of just trying to create the false perception that there is debate about the validity of evolution in the scientific community... which there isn't. Quite a huge example of spin, and Mr. O did a stand up job of setting up his guest.


As an 18 yr old... I'm glad I'll be out of the public school system but I am worried and I am seriously considering perhapse leaving the country for good. I've been accepted into the U of M but I'm seriously considering studying somewhere outside the country. I feel that the current environment in America will be quite counter productive to career advancement for me. (I want to be an evolutionary biologist) not to mention that the current mob mentality I witness in this country is no place I'd want to eventually raise a family.


Perhapse I am just over reacting but after witnessing things like this... I cannot help but to be depressed at the endless stream of victories the religious right are having. They feed off ignorance and I fear they will never go hungry.


An australian once said to me "The british sent us the prisoners and you the missionaries, and I gotta say you got the worst of it" ... I tend to agree with him.

[RBH]

It was Paul Gross, of Creationism's Trojan Horse (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195157427/internetinfidels/), and he'd cut his own tongue out before he'd say ID should be taught in science courses.

RBH

[GreyGhost]

I just watched the eleven o'clock showing and I can say I am stunned. O'Reilly clearly had no idea what evolution or intelligent design was really about. By saying that only evolution should be taught in science class was fascist is appalling. O'Reilly seemed to think that just because a lot of people believe in Intelligent Design then it should be presented as a viable alternative to evolution is mind boggling. Many people think the holocaust never happened. Should thier views be taught in history class? Or that the pyramids were built by survivors from Atlantis? There are people who claim that too. He doesn't seem to understand that science is based on fact, not feelings.

I also didn't like how he turned the discussion to abortion. I really don't know what abortion has to do with evolution. Maybe someone could fill me in. He tried to make it sound like his guest was some sort of monster who would tell kids that abortion is perfectly okay and that there are no moral repercussions that go along with it.

I have to admit that I watch O'Reilly and have even read his book. I don't agree with everything he says, but I lost so much respect for him in this story I don't know if I could take him seriously anymore. It seems to me that this story was just one more attempt to portray intelligent people as wanting to destroy America or something. I've noticed that is often a theme of his shows. Intelligensia is against America and everything American. Maybe it has something to do with the survey that said his veiwers were less educated than the veiwers of Jon Stewarts' "Daily Show."

[ApatheticParasites]

To be honest I'm quite convinced The Daily Show is a better source for news than most of the programming on fox news.

[Nightson]

To be honest I'm quite convinced The Daily Show is a better source for news than most of the programming on fox news.

Heh, I'm convinced it's better than the local news as well.

[Aetas]

An australian once said to me "The british sent us the prisoners and you the missionaries, and I gotta say you got the worst of it" ... I tend to agree with him.

i love that quote and it is true.

If you do decide to move there is some good universities in queensland where i live i am a student the University of Queensland and it is very good.

[RBH]

i love that quote and it is true.

If you do decide to move there is some good universities in queensland where i live i am a student the University of Queensland and it is very good.I tried, but the closest I got was co-authoring a paper with a guy from U of Queensland when we were both visiting faculty at U of Toronto. But a student I know is at Queensland for a semester now. I hate him! :)

RBH

[Joe Meert]

I watched it aswell however I think you are misled... and that was the entire purpouse of the segment.

The guy said both sides should be presented but that only science should be presented in a science class, and that ID is not a real scientific theory but instead consists of just trying to create the false perception that there is debate about the validity of evolution in the scientific community... which there isn't. Quite a huge example of spin, and Mr. O did a stand up job of setting up his guest.


As an 18 yr old... I'm glad I'll be out of the public school system but I am worried and I am seriously considering perhapse leaving the country for good. I've been accepted into the U of M but I'm seriously considering studying somewhere outside the country. I feel that the current environment in America will be quite counter productive to career advancement for me. (I want to be an evolutionary biologist) not to mention that the current mob mentality I witness in this country is no place I'd want to eventually raise a family.


Perhapse I am just over reacting but after witnessing things like this... I cannot help but to be depressed at the endless stream of victories the religious right are having. They feed off ignorance and I fear they will never go hungry.


An australian once said to me "The british sent us the prisoners and you the missionaries, and I gotta say you got the worst of it" ... I tend to agree with him.

JM: I LOVED UM. I grew up in Michigan as the son of a UM grad and spent my leisure time at UM football games. I took my BS and MS degrees from the University of Florida, but was able to return to UM for my Ph.D. It's a great school.

Cheers

Joe Meert

[DrummerWench]

...Maybe it has something to do with the survey that said his veiwers were less educated than the veiwers of Jon Stewarts' "Daily Show."
To be honest I'm quite convinced The Daily Show is a better source for news than most of the programming on fox news.
Heh, I'm convinced it's better than the local news as well.
I heard (on NPR) that people who watched The Daily Show were better informed about news events than those who watched regular news. Of course, it was during an interview with Jon Stewart...

DG

[Roland98]

I also didn't like how he turned the discussion to abortion. I really don't know what abortion has to do with evolution. Maybe someone could fill me in. He tried to make it sound like his guest was some sort of monster who would tell kids that abortion is perfectly okay and that there are no moral repercussions that go along with it.

Evolution = we're nothing more than rearranged pond scum = no objective morality = atheism = it's OK to murder (and abortion = murder) 'cause there's no threat of Divine punishment.

Clearer now? :)

[Albion]

To the extent that that mindset can ever be clarified, I suppose it's clearer now...

[pangloss]

To be honest I'm quite convinced The Daily Show is a better source for news than most of the programming on fox news.
Fox news in general is little more than blatant right-wing propganda, in everything from their choice of program hosts (Cal Thomas?) to the way in which the news anchors report the news (lots of head shakinig, face making, clear contempt for certain people, etc.).

I was in the waiting room at my mechanic's shop shortly after tha Tsunami hit Indonesia. I watched for about 45 minutes, and saw part of their morning show then the news that followed.

During that time, Fox 'News' people:

mispronounced at least 3 people's names, openly mocking the name of a person from Tsunami-ravaged Sri Lanka

played up the non-Christian culture in the region

emphasized the skepticism that many in the region expressed about Christian groups coming 'to help'

misspoke in the following manner - when referring to the death toll, said "dollars" instead of "lives", and did not correct himself nor did any of the others correct him (on their morning show)



And that was just what I noted, as I was reading a magazine off and on at the same time.

Incredible journalism...

[theyeti]

As an 18 yr old... I'm glad I'll be out of the public school system but I am worried and I am seriously considering perhapse leaving the country for good. I've been accepted into the U of M but I'm seriously considering studying somewhere outside the country. I feel that the current environment in America will be quite counter productive to career advancement for me. (I want to be an evolutionary biologist) not to mention that the current mob mentality I witness in this country is no place I'd want to eventually raise a family.

Congrats on wanting to be an evolutionary biologist. I think you'll find that college is much different than highschool in regards to the way in which evolution is looked at, and for that matter, the general intellectual atmosphere.

An australian once said to me "The british sent us the prisoners and you the missionaries, and I gotta say you got the worst of it" ... I tend to agree with him.

And the Australians sent us Ken Ham and Yahoo Serious, and we're still wondering when we're going to paid for taking them.

theyeti

[JLK]

O'Reilly clearly had no idea what evolution or intelligent design was really about.
Saying that only evolution should be taught in science class was fascist is appalling.The 2:14 minute video of O'Falafelly's introduction (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?080205/views_oreilly_080205&OReilly_Factor_Talking).
44 seconds in he calls the Nat. Acad. of Sci. & the AAAS's statements on teaching evolution "fascism".
Final words: "The President is Right!"

And the Department, after all, was itself only a single branch of the Ministry of Truth (http://www.newscorp.com/index2.html), whose primary job was not to reconstruct the past but to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels -- with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary. And MiniTrue had not only to supply the multifarious needs of the party (http://www.weeklystandard.com/), but also to repeat the whole operation at a lower level for the benefit of the proletariat. There was a whole chain of separate departments dealing with proletarian literature, music, drama, and entertainment generally. Here were produced rubbishy newspapers (http://www.nypost.com/) containing almost nothing except sport, crime and astrology, sensational cheap novelettes, infantile films (http://www.foxmovies.com/) with titillating sex, and sentimental songs (http://www.fox.com/home.htm) which were composed entirely by mechanical means on a special kind of device known as a versificator.

[Clutch]

Evolution = we're nothing more than rearranged pond scum = no objective morality = atheism = it's OK to murder (and abortion = murder) 'cause there's no threat of Divine punishment.

Clearer now? :)

Dang, you convinced me! Can you undo it, too?

[Richard Forrest]

And the Australians sent us Ken Ham and Yahoo Serious, and we're still wondering when we're going to paid for taking them.

theyeti

What's wrong with Yahoo Serious?
And you forgot Mel Gibson. Although, isn't he USAian by birth?

Richard Forrest

[GreyGhost]

I think this link will explain why O'Reilly is gunning for ID to be taught.

www.re-discovery.org/right.html

Check out the last paragraph. The one where the DI states "We are consultants to Fox News Network." This explains a lot.

[Philosoft]

I think this link will explain why O'Reilly is gunning for ID to be taught.

www.re-discovery.org/right.html

Check out the last paragraph. The one where the DI states "We are consultants to Fox News Network." This explains a lot.
That's a parody.

The reDiscovery Institute maintains a slick web page, and tirelessly promotes archaic religious dogma elegantly dressed in modern scientific terminology, to school boards, museums, theaters, and editorial pages across America.

[GreyGhost]

That's a parody.

You're right, thanks for pointing that out. I'll read a little more carefully in the future. Sometimes it is hard to tell what is a parody and what is real concerning creationists and IDers.

[NottyImp]

Sometimes it is hard to tell what is a parody and what is real concerning creationists and IDers.

Yes, especially when the parodies are more cogent.

[Gunnaheave]

Here now, we'll have none of that.

The Discovery Institute is every bit as real as Creation Science.