Using a Time Machine to Explore the Bible

[lpetrich]

Although I doubt that that technology can ever exist, it does make for an interesting thought experiment. If one could travel in a time machine to visit the people in the Bible, what do you expect to see? I'll give a run-down of the possibilities to get you people thinking:

Meet Jesus Christ face-to-face.
See the Star of Bethlehem.
Watch King Herod's troops as they hunt down baby boys and kill them.
Watch Jesus Christ be a child prodigy in the Temple.
Get an eyeful of "all the kingdoms of the world" as the Devil shows them to JC.
Watch him work his miracles -- feeding people, walking on water, turning water into wine, raising the dead, driving out demons, etc.
Watch him foam at the mouth at those scribes and Pharisees, and watch him humiliate them in his confrontations with them.
Watch him throw temper tantrums at a certain fig tree and at the merchants in the Temple.
Watch him be put on trial for being a self-styled messiah.
Watch him be crucified, complete with a mysterious darkness, earthquakes, rocks splitting, and zombies walking from their tombs.
Watch him rise from the dead, and then to Heaven.

Be with a certain Saul when he has a certain (in)famous vision on his way to Damascus, eventually becoming Paul.
Keep from going to sleep when Paul delivers his sermons, including one where a young man went to sleep at a window and fell out of it, only to be revived by him.
Watch the silversmiths of Ephesus get provoked by Paul denying the deity that they owe their business to.

Be with John the Revealer as he composes the Book of Revelation on the island of Patmos. Check on what food he eats, like what kind of mushrooms and what sort of mold is growing on his bread.

Follow the Babylonian Exile and the triumphant return home after King Cyrus liberates the exiles.

Watch as a priest discovers the "book of the law" in the Temple during King Josiah's reign.

Watch as the Assyrians besiege Jerusalem and chuckle as their King Sennacherib directs the construction of Baghdad-Bob-style "victory monuments" in commemoration of that failed siege. "Their king was like a caged bird" -- of course.

Watch as the Assyrians conquer and deport the ten tribes of the northern kingdom.

Watch as Elijah challenges the priests of Baal to a contest: who has the more powerful god?

Watch Elisha sic some bears on some boys who teased him about his baldness.

Watch Kings David and Solomon in action.
Get an eyeful of David defeating Goliath and having a sex scandal with Bathsheba.
Have a big tour of Solomon's opulence.

Follow Samson around as he has his (mis)adventures.

Watch the conquest of Canaan, complete with the genocide practiced on the people already there.
Watch Joshua tell the Sun to stop moving, so he can win one of his battles.

Follow Moses around over the course of his life:
Being put into a basket and placed in the Nile.
Being rescued by an Egyptian princess.
Growing up and going into the Sinai wilderness.
Encountering a certain burning bush.
Returning to Egypt and challenging the Pharaoh to let his people go.
The Ten Plagues of Egypt.
The Israelites walking across the Red Sea floor.
The Red Sea's parting being stopped to drown the Egyptian troops.
Receving lots and lots of laws from Ol' Mr. G.
Getting furious at his people worshipping a golden bull, and breaking his law tablets.
Leading his people around the desert, and dying just outside of of the Promised Land.

Note the sort of interest the Israelite men take in the Midianite young ladies that they spare; they slaughter all the other Midianites.

Watch Abraham almost sacrificing his son Isaac.
Be there as Abraham shows off his wife Sarah.

Watch Lot being seduced by his daughters.
Being with Lot as he confronts the lechers of Sodom and Gomorrah, and as they get destroyed by fire -- with Lot's wife being turned into a pillar of salt as she turns to look.

Be at the Tower of Babel -- God giving them different languages because he got pissed at the tower's builders trying to reach Heaven.

Watch Noah's Flood.
Watch Noah getting drunk and exposing himself, and Ham getting an eyeful of that.

Watch Cain kill Abel because Mr. G. preferred Abel's animal offering to Cain's plant offering.

Watch the Universe get created as described in Genesis 2.
Watch the Universe get created as described in Genesis 1.


My point is: will you see what the Bible describes, or will you see something else?

[seebs]

A fascinating question.

I have known people who argued that you'd discover that your people were the ones doing some of the weird stuff. You know, arranging the miracles and so on.

[Quetzalcoatl]

One cannot see fiction.

[screwtape]

You don't need a time machine.

The Mormon religion is recent enough in establishment that accurate representations of its history, ideology, formation and foundation exist and which will reveal the truth behind all their beliefs.

Religions, I advocate, all follow similar templates of orignation and/or creation.

[Dryhad]

One cannot see fiction.
Then one will obviously see its absence, won't one? May I also point out how hypocritically sure you are of something one cannot be sure of?

[Quetzalcoatl]

Then one will obviously see its absence, won't one? May I also point out how hypocritically sure you are of something one cannot be sure of?

No you may not since you are not sure.

Secondly once you propose magic nothing can be checked. I repeat one cannot check fiction. Quite simple concept really Why are you having problems with it?

[Dryhad]

No you may not since you are not sure.
I'm reasonably certain that you don't have a time machine. You also said that even if you did you couldn't check it. I am quite sure that you cannot be sure in this instance.

Secondly once you propose magic nothing can be checked. I repeat one cannot check fiction. Quite simple concept really Why are you having problems with it?
You didn't say "One cannot check fiction", you said "One cannot see fiction". Semantics? Perhaps, but bare with me. The latter is quite obvious, by definition fiction is something that didn't happen, and therefore can't be seen. The former has a much deeper meaning and aludes to ad hoc moves. You can see my misunderstanding?

[Quetzalcoatl]

Ok. but both have the same practical consequence. I am quite sure that some of the scenarios are indeed fiction.

Watch the Universe get created as described in Genesis 2.

We manifestly do not live in such a universe. It is fiction. There is no firmament etc. It is senseless to ask if you have a time machine what would you see. You could as well ask about Jacks bean stork.

If any of the scenarios are correct it means there is magic in the universe. If this is true you cannot say what you would see.

[lpetrich]

Quetzalcoatl, the Bible contains some legitimate history, even though it is far from 100% historical.

Sennacherib's siege of Jerusalem is described from both sides, and both sides agree on the overall events -- Sennacherib's armies besieged the city, but eventually decided to quit. That's clear from the account in the Bible, though in Sennacherib's victory monuments, it's described in a roundabout fashion: their king was trapped in the city like a caged bird, rather than killed or captured. The Biblical version also claims that an angel of the Lord zapped Sennacherib's troops, which suggests that they suffered some plague.

There's a third source, Herodotus, who claims that Sennacherib's armies suffered a plague of mice, who chewed up the chewable parts of the soldiers' weapons and armor.

Isn't ancient history fun? :D

[kaelcarp]

As for the time of the gospels, I suspect I'd have a hard time locating the Jesus fellow, or even finding anyone who knew who I was talking about (assuming I could speak the language). Even if he did exist, he obviously didn't have an immediate huge impact.

I consider the Bible to be about 99.9% fictional, so I don't think I could legitimately visit most of what's described in it, time machine or not.

[lpetrich]

screwtape was talking about the origin of religions in general -- Joseph Smith's known record of faking has not kept Mormonism from getting followers -- but I was asking what one would find if one went to the places and times described in the Bible.

And I disagree with kaelcarp's assessment that the Bible is 99.9% fictional -- it does have a fair amount of verifiable history in it.

And here is what I think:

Paul likely existed, though telling fact from fiction about him can be difficult, due to the early-Xian taste for making up history. I would not be surprised if something had happened to him on a certain journey to Damascus, but what?

Jesus Christ, however, is another story -- too much of his biographies are just plain mythology and projection onto a founder figure. I expect to travel throughout Jerusalem and Galilee without finding a trace of the JC of the Gospels.

In the Old Testament, the history is broadly reliable during the divided-monarchy period and afterward. However, David and Solomon likely had much smaller kingdoms than their chroniclers describe for them, and the history before that is little more than mythology. No conquest, no wandering in the desert, no Exodus, no stay in Egypt, no Patriarchs, no Tower of Babel, no Noah's Flood, no Adam or Eve, no six-day creation.

[yalla]

Time machine back to Christianity?
It's been done--sort of.
Keith Hopkins "A World Full of Gods" Phoenix Weidenfeld and Nicolson London 1999

Hopkins is a prof of something, history or philosophy, in the UK.
He uses the literary device of time travel to send 2 young travellers back to the Roman Empire
in the early first century to experience and report on the nature and practice of popular religion and culture.
It's a serious work just handled imaginatively in various ways.
He presents some interesting information and views on the society of the time and religion in general.
I can recommend it as a worthwhile read.
I got it from my local library so see if you can find it.

[kaelcarp]

screwtape was talking about the origin of religions in general -- Joseph Smith's known record of faking has not kept Mormonism from getting followers -- but I was asking what one would find if one went to the places and times described in the Bible.

And I disagree with kaelcarp's assessment that the Bible is 99.9% fictional -- it does have a fair amount of verifiable history in it.

And here is what I think:

Paul likely existed, though telling fact from fiction about him can be difficult, due to the early-Xian taste for making up history. I would not be surprised if something had happened to him on a certain journey to Damascus, but what?

Jesus Christ, however, is another story -- too much of his biographies are just plain mythology and projection onto a founder figure. I expect to travel throughout Jerusalem and Galilee without finding a trace of the JC of the Gospels.

In the Old Testament, the history is broadly reliable during the divided-monarchy period and afterward. However, David and Solomon likely had much smaller kingdoms than their chroniclers describe for them, and the history before that is little more than mythology. No conquest, no wandering in the desert, no Exodus, no stay in Egypt, no Patriarchs, no Tower of Babel, no Noah's Flood, no Adam or Eve, no six-day creation.
Well, yeah, 99.9% was a bit of a hyperbole. What I meant is that the vast majority of it - and almost all of what makes it holy to many people - is complete fabrication.

[lpetrich]

First, I'm a bit surprised that none of the resident Xians here have described how much they would enjoy visiting their Lord and Savior with a time machine.

Well, yeah, 99.9% was a bit of a hyperbole. What I meant is that the vast majority of it - and almost all of what makes it holy to many people - is complete fabrication.
kaelcarp, I wonder what parts of the Bible you consider historical.

"The vast majority of it" is not much less than "99.9%" -- and I don't think it is wise to use hyperbole in some context that may cause it to be interpreted as a straight statement.

[Dean Anderson]

This explains why the "500 witnesses" to the resurrection were never heard of again and never left us any writings...

...they were all time-tourists from the future who went back home after the event.

[capsaicin67]

I would begin my, um, research with Mary Magdalene. Or maybe Mary, because she sounds like a desert phreak. But depending on when I land, she might still be a bit too young for my 2005 sensibilities though it might well look interesting on a resume' to be Jesus's real daddy. So I'd probably stick with MM.

[Neutral]

Although I doubt that that technology can ever exist,

it exists

If one could travel in a time machine

i did. last week i had a meeting with Stalin in Moscow.

to visit the people in the Bible,

i already visited them many times

what do you expect to see?

a lot of shit, actually you will not fully understand the meaning of the word "shit" untill you visit them.

you choose the historical and epic moments to revist but i prefer the ordinary, routine and regular moments, for example, i prefer to revist Jesus while he is at home and having breakfast with him and his mother and watching how he eats, speaks, what kind of food he likes, what style of furniture they have,what kind of education he gets, what job he has, what kind of clothes he wear and from where he gets them, wal mart or somewhere else! he wears underwear or not and if he does, what color it is ?- usually i check by myself to see he is telling the truth or not, how many shower he takes per year?- usually i smell him to see if he is telling the truth or not and believe me it is not an easy thing to smell Jesus -what kind of transportation he uses to move around? how he spend his spare time? what is his relation with women!!!!-i usually spend a lot of time with him discussing intimate issues and yes he masturbates a lot and he went nuts when they nailed his hands to the cross cause he couldn't play with himself any more-

after spending few hours with Jesus i go to Madina to meet Mohamed and his buddies to see what is going on and during lunch we discuss all sort of things from Allah to anal sex and i usually spend the night with more contemorary figures interviewing them like Stalin, Hitler, Nixon- what a guy :thumbs: - Pritney Spears - Osama bin Laden to check his coming album-GWB trying to understand the dynamics of mental retardation and after this long journey i turn off the time machine to avoid overheating and start to process the information that i gathered all day and every time i do this journey i reach to the same conclusion, there is no fucking hope and inspite of that conclusion i keep doing the same journey again and again which makes me reach to another conclusion which is REALLY THERE IS NO FUCKING HOPE in my sorry ass to stop making these journies.

the focus of your journey is very classic and similar to a guy like Mil Gibson-what a masochistic jerk :down: - who focused on a historical moment and put it under the microscope while focusing on the routine and regular things remove the holliness from those characters and show them for what they really were; just a punch of backward retarded mother fuckers controlling Billions of contemporary backward retarded mother fuckers from their graves.

ps, i can let you use my time machine and give you useful tips to handle difficult situations . it is very dangerous and even lethal to have an interview with a guy like Stalin or Hitler, you may start your journey from America in the morning and find yourself by night in a labor camp in Siberia or concentration camp in Poland if you don't have experience in handling such ass holes.

[yalla]

For Pervy.
There is a sci-fi story in an anthology that I have somewhere that comes close to your scenario.
In it groups of people are sent back in time to witness events of interest to them.They are instructed before they leave to make sure they ''fit in'' to the ancient scene, do not behave out of character for the time etc..
The narrator of the story is one of a group who is sent to the crucifixion of JC.
Whilst witnessing the trial, he, being concious of the need to behave like everyone else present, dutifully shouts ''crucify him'' on cue.
The punchline of the story is that he realises that all present are, like him, time travellers acting on the same instructions.
Interesting story.