What do I live for?

[predator CA]

Today when I was on break at work, a girl I work with joined me in the break room. Some how religion was brought up, and she figured out I was an atheist.

She asked me the classic question, "what do you live for?"

I responded that I think it is sad that people need an excuse to want to live, and that it is insulting to think that people don't appreciate life for what it is.

But, I felt wholey unprepared to answer her question effectively, and I was wondering what some good responses I could use.

What are you guys' answers?

[sea star]

I live for my husband and my children.
I live to see how my flower garden will grow.
I live to see my mom impart wisdom to my kids.
I live to go to my nephew's birthday party.
I live to show my brother in law how to fish our local river.
I live to anticipate my grandchildren.
I live to return to my job when school resumes.
I live to help with the library fundraiser.
I live to see assisted suicide and gay marriage socially acceptable.

Isn't that enough?

[screwtape]

Today when I was on break at work, a girl I work with joined me in the break room. Some how religion was brought up, and she figured out I was an atheist.

She asked me the classic question, "what do you live for?"

I responded that I think it is sad that people need an excuse to want to live, and that it is insulting to think that people don't appreciate life for what it is.

But, I felt wholey unprepared to answer her question effectively, and I was wondering what some good responses I could use.

What are you guys' answers?

You will never be as young as you are this minute
You will never be here again.
You live for the moment between your birth and your death, for it is only a moment before you are dead. Live so that you are never forgotten for that is immortality.

S.

[screwtape]

I live for my husband and my children.
I live to see how my flower garden will grow.
I live to see my mom impart wisdom to my kids.
I live to go to my nephew's birthday party.
I live to show my brother in law how to fish our local river.
I live to anticipate my grandchildren.
I live to return to my job when school resumes.
I live to help with the library fundraiser.
I live to see assisted suicide and gay marriage socially acceptable.

Isn't that enough?

It is never enough.

[Cosmik Debris]

I live because I like living. It sounds like a strange answer I suppose but really when it comes down to it I just like being alive. Friends, family, my wife these are all things that make the world work for me, I guess you could say I live for them too. There is one quote from the move American History X that really stuck with me from the first time I saw the movie as it pretty much said in two sentences what I think is the central philosophy for my life.

"Hate is baggage. Life's too short to be pissed off all the time."

[Revolutionary]

I live for life. What else is there?

The existence of supernatural beings would add no inherent meaning to my own existence. An afterlife seems to add something, but it doesn't really. What do saints in heaven “live� for? Praising God for creating them to praise God?

[Prof]

Today when I was on break at work, a girl I work with joined me in the break room. Some how religion was brought up, and she figured out I was an atheist.

She asked me the classic question, "what do you live for?"

I responded that I think it is sad that people need an excuse to want to live, and that it is insulting to think that people don't appreciate life for what it is.

But, I felt wholey unprepared to answer her question effectively, and I was wondering what some good responses I could use.

What are you guys' answers?

I live with a deep appreciation for what is, and a hope for what could be.

The more I learn about the world, the more I reflect on my astonishing luck in simply being here - in all of us being here. There is so much I love and cherish about my life, and about the world. Yeah, there's a lot of crap too. But all the good things are not only wonderful in of themselves, they point a way; suggest a direction to what could be. So I love life, but like many people, I hope to make things even better, not merely for my future but for my kid's future, and not just for my kid's future; I care about the future of humanity. Honest. There are many answers for what I live for, but I don't necessarily need to ponder them to enjoy what life has to offer. I also am elevated by the understanding that I am comprised of elements that have been around since (around) the beginning of the universe - star stuff and all that. As well, my life has effects that extend well beyond my own imaginings, and beyond my death (via my interaction with other people and with reality in general, and how those effects ripple every outward, not stopping with my death).

I do love the fact I have the opportunity to be a part of the great unfolding story of this universe. It's like being placed in the middle of a great mystery; it's exciting trying to figure it out. I guess that's why I'm so attracted to science (although I'm an artist/flake at heart).

By the way, it's implicit (if not explicit) in such questions from theists that a "purpose" imposed by a diety is somehow inherently more desirable or valuable than the ones that originate from us. But in fact externally imposed purpose has no such privelaged value to us. If the Diety showed up and explained that his "purpose" for creating us was to dine on our bodies and then torture our eternal souls for his pleasure, how would that make life purposeful for US? As the saying goes: "We raise pigs for bacon; does that make life purposeful for the pig?"

We assign meaning to things, not the other way around. Someone adopts a divine "purpose" for their lives only so far as they themselves like the idea and find it meaningful. Just like I assign meaning to the things I value. Theists tend to conceptualize the god that they find meaningful, from which they can derive motivations for their actions. But the way meaning, purpose and value drive a theist is no different than how it drives me. They just find a different purpose attractive, whereas I don't. If there happened to be a loving, generous God who created me so that I would have the opportunity to enjoy life, that would be the start of something I could adopt into my life as meaningful. However, the God of revealed religions like Christianity does not appear to be such a character. I could not find meaning in being a pawn in the plan of the brutish, immature being depicted in The Bible. And I have no reason to believe a big, benign, loving Sky Daddy exists, so that concept can not add meaning or purpose to my life.

I may as well ask how a Christian can live without feeling like he is meant to serve Zues or Isis.

The whole "purpose" thing seems more related to personality than to religious vs secular beliefs. I have quite a few Christian friends. Some are listless, some appear driven - just like the range found within my secular friends. Which, again, goes to show me that some people have more vigorous "meaning" or "purpose" generating constitutions than other people, whether they are religious or non-religious.

Hope some of that makes sense.

Prof.

[screwtape]

The last few posts set apart theists of their books, particularly of the abrahamic beliefs, and atheists.

I know more theists in my life than atheists. Yet, I know far more atheists who are obsessed with life and living. The theists are obsessed with death, living ghosts, and what follow the grave.

S.

[EricK]

Her question is entirely backwards.

If this is the only life there is then you might as well live it as best you can. If there is a better life awaiting you after this one, then what is the point of hanging around here?

Or to put it another way, which makes more sense:

"Come on kids. You are only going to be in Disneyland for a couple of days so go on as many rides and have as much fun as you can"

or

"You're only going to be in Disneyland for a couple of days so what's the point of going on any rides at all?"

Eric

[MollyMac]

This isn't really an EoG thread. I'm going to move it to GRD and the mods there can decide whether to keep it.

[IamMoose]

I get annoyed when xians ask this question cos you could well ask - well suppose God exists and there IS eternal life .. so? What do YOU live for?

Ultimately, life's just instinct you know? If you chuck a stone down a well it doesn't stop halfway down and think 'hold on, why am i doing this?'. It's the same with life .. we're born, we go through it and we die .. simple biological instinct.

[premjan]

to rediscover purpose every moment.

[MrDarwin]

I live for the fact that the world is an amazing and endlessly fascinating place that I love to learn about, and the fact that I have family, friends, and a partner who I love and enjoy being with.

But I agree--turn the question around and ask her why she doesn't want to die right now (you may have to reword this slightly so it doesn't sound like a threat!) if Heaven is going to be so much better?

[edited for grammar]

[Enlighten Me]

I live for Sunday mornings, when my husband and I read the newspaper, eat homemade pancakes or waffles, and take a one hour hike in the hill behind our house. Our life is really good, and we live to keep it that way, and, as we are able, to help others improve, and enjoy their lives. :)

[Enlighten Me]

I live with a deep appreciation for what is, and a hope for what could be.

Prof.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

[joemailman]

Didja ever think that there's no such person as a theist? Watching what people do and not what they say is a measure of the truth of their beliefs and consequent behavior. There may very well be billions of ignoramuses on this planet who talk the talk and cannot bring themselves to walk the walk. They know very well that if they were to depend of ghosts for anything important at all they will fail and so they ALWAYS pray as well as call their plumber or doctor or whomever they can to "assist" the creator of all things.

[sharon45]

"What do I live for?"

Of course I wasn't even ever asked if I even wanted to live in the first place and I am also not asked if I even ever want to stop, so I live because I am alive right now.

[DBT]

Just the fact that we exist would have to be the most wonderous thing...Enough to marvel over for a lifetime.

[Agnostic Theist]

Today when I was on break at work, a girl I work with joined me in the break room. Some how religion was brought up, and she figured out I was an atheist.

She asked me the classic question, "what do you live for?"

I responded that I think it is sad that people need an excuse to want to live, and that it is insulting to think that people don't appreciate life for what it is.

But, I felt wholey unprepared to answer her question effectively, and I was wondering what some good responses I could use.

What are you guys' answers?

Ask her why she needs to believe that there is some sort of purpose in order to appreciate life? We live and we might as well live as well as we can.

Ask her also to consider whether it is better to live a life without purpose, or a life with purpose that we can't fulfil (and even if we did fulfil it we wouldn't know).

Also, what if we did fulfil that purpose, and know? What then? Is the rest of our life meaningless? What good is purpose, anyway? Seriously?

[sharon45]

What good is purpose, anyway? Seriously?Are you really serious with a question like that?

[dendrast]

For the joy of living.
For being a part of the universe that is aware of the universe.
It certainly beats the alterative.

[Anat]

Good points, Agnostic Theist. Focusing on the destination prevents one from enjoying the ride.

[Lilyofthevalley]

I live for my husband and my children.
I live to see how my flower garden will grow.
I live to see my mom impart wisdom to my kids.
I live to go to my nephew's birthday party.
I live to show my brother in law how to fish our local river.
I live to anticipate my grandchildren.
I live to return to my job when school resumes.
I live to help with the library fundraiser.
I live to see assisted suicide and gay marriage socially acceptable.

Isn't that enough?

No, it isn't enough, I don't think. I think we KNOW there is more to life than things that we do in this life, however laudable (see above). One's day-to-day life is apparently 'enough' when contradicting a Christian/believer - but if it's so satisfying why are you /we/I even interested in reading the views of and contradicting believers? Why even engage in the conversation?

My own personal answer is that we are some sort of spiritual creature and we know it, deep down.

Enlighten_Me wrote:

I live for Sunday mornings, when my husband and I read the newspaper, eat homemade pancakes or waffles, and take a one hour hike in the hill behind our house. Our life is really good, and we live to keep it that way, and, as we are able, to help others improve, and enjoy their lives.

Such mornings are indeed wonderful - but my cat experiences such a life, sunning herself. Surely we humans can't live like animals, in the present, no matter how sunshiney. We KNOW that anything could happen tomorrow: diagnosis of cancer, terrorist bombs etc, and regardless of calamities, death will come anyway. That knowledge sets us apart and I personally think we're kidding ourselves that this life is enough to live for.

[AthenaAwakened]

I live because I'm not dead. I enjoy life because I choose to. This world is more than enough and I like it here.

That's my answer to your question.

Peace

[Bill B]

Life is an awesome and mysterious phenomenon. Of all the myriad life forms on this planet, to somehow be privileged to experience the phenomenon as a human being---I feel overwhemingly fortunate.

I think atheists feel a sense of awe and wonderment and humility about this phenomenon, which is totally different from the self-serving, fear-instilling, divisive, parochial, theistic world-view.

[sharon45]

One's day-to-day life is apparently 'enough' when contradicting a Christian/believer - but if it's so satisfying why are you /we/I even interested in reading the views of and contradicting believers? Why even engage in the conversation?I would not know who would think their life was satisfyng by just contradicting believers. For me, I've been a thinker for most of my life so it is just part of what I like to do to stay sharp.

My own personal answer is that we are some sort of spiritual creature and we know it, deep down.My personal view on this is I think many think like that mostly because of religions' long stranglehold on societies.

Surely we humans can't live like animals, in the present, no matter how sunshiney.Well, I live a lot like this, except that I always make sure I am a better person today than I was the day before.

I can't be like a lot out there that believe they must make the most of everyday.

If one can manage it though, I say more power to them.

[Queen of Swords]

I think we KNOW there is more to life than things that we do in this life, however laudable (see above).

Speak for yourself. I do not "KNOW" that there is something more in life than the marks I will leave behind on the sands of time by my accomplishments. If you want to show with evidence that there is indeed something more, then by all means, go ahead.

One's day-to-day life is apparently 'enough' when contradicting a Christian/believer - but if it's so satisfying why are you /we/I even interested in reading the views of and contradicting believers?

By the same token, if the lives of believers are satisfying, why are they even interested in reading the views of and contradicting non-believers? Perhaps there is a great emptiness in believers that only we can fill? :p

My own personal answer is that we are some sort of spiritual creature and we know it, deep down.

My own personal answer to this is that we are chocolate chip cookies and we know it, deep down.

Seriously, though, since you are speaking for all of us, please tell me why I feel that I am not a spiritual creature, deep down or subsurface or any other level.

We KNOW that anything could happen tomorrow... That knowledge sets us apart

IMO, that knowledge makes it that much easier to enjoy life and to enjoy bright sunshiney mornings.

and I personally think we're kidding ourselves that this life is enough to live for.

But when people tell themselves that there's some life after this one, they're not kidding themselves at all. Nope. It's only when they find satisfaction and fulfilment in this life that they're engaging in self-deception. How fortunate for them that you saw through such lies.

[TruthPrevails]

I am an atheist or rather a non-theist.

Basically being religious is motivated by instincts for self-preservation which is very selfish but do serve the underlying purpose of preservation of the specie in a very limited way. At the most, some unselfishness can be extended to their own kind, another human instinct of being clannish. Theists are thus, only a little better than beasts.

There are Non-theist who are beasts or near beasts, but

non-theists have the better potential to extend their consciousness beyond their individual self to that of specie-awareness as 'human' without the confines nor hindrances of 'my religion is the only way'.

The planet is gravitating towards grave dangers, in terms of ecology, climatic upheavals and population explosion. In the long run the earth will gravitate nearer towards the Sun and be burnt. There is a possibility of large comets or meteors coming our way.

It is time now, for all humans to develop 'specie-awareness' and think in terms of being one team-human on this planet to ensure the human specie is preserved here, now or in some galaxy in the future.
Note: Ants and Termites already have that but on an instinctual level.
We human need to do it on a higher conscious level.

Meanwhile, the majority of theists are fighting selfishly like toddlers for religious turfs and a place in a non-existent heaven.

I live with the specie-awareness that i play a part and contribute to the preservation of the human specie in the best manner i can within my limited means. Meanwhile i will maintain consistent equanimity in whatever i do and act throughout life.

Non-theists will pave the way for specie-awareness beyond one individual self.

[jonesg]

I get annoyed when xians ask this question cos you could well ask - well suppose God exists and there IS eternal life .. so? What do YOU live for?

Ultimately, life's just instinct you know? If you chuck a stone down a well it doesn't stop halfway down and think 'hold on, why am i doing this?'. It's the same with life .. we're born, we go through it and we die .. simple biological instinct.


Well the question is supposed to make you think and thinking includes what the poser lives for too, but so far you don't know the answer.

[predator CA]

Such mornings are indeed wonderful - but my cat experiences such a life, sunning herself. Surely we humans can't live like animals, in the present, no matter how sunshiney. We KNOW that anything could happen tomorrow: diagnosis of cancer, terrorist bombs etc, and regardless of calamities, death will come anyway. That knowledge sets us apart and I personally think we're kidding ourselves that this life is enough to live for.

This is rediculous. We ARE animals. Sure, we are unique considering how intelligent we are, but regardless, this trait is no different than what separates a dog from a cat.

Life is the only thing there is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, if you can come up with something else to live for, that does not involve us living our lives, then enlighten me.

[Joan of Bark]

A Buddhist believes there IS more to life: there is reincarnation ... endlessly, until nirvana is reached. No God required. (And no, I don't believe in reincarnation).

The purpose of life is life.

[Lilyofthevalley]

if you can come up with something else to live for, that does not involve us living our lives, then enlighten me.

Suggestion: Seeking the Source of life. Maybe that could be Something Else to live for? It certainly involves living this life. But I find it highly mysterious that I even have a life to live, so I am motivated to search for my Creator.

Incidentally my cat, my fellow animal, it's wonderfully true, doesn't appear to be motivated in the same direction!

(As is probably obvious I'm not an atheist. Sorry... ) ;)

[AthenaAwakened]

The purpose of life is to live it and to live it more abundantly (If I my go back to my baptist roots for just a second). No god required.

Peace

[Enlighten Me]

No, it isn't enough, I don't think. I think we KNOW there is more to life than things that we do in this life, however laudable (see above). One's day-to-day life is apparently 'enough' when contradicting a Christian/believer - but if it's so satisfying why are you /we/I even interested in reading the views of and contradicting believers? Why even engage in the conversation?

My own personal answer is that we are some sort of spiritual creature and we know it, deep down.

Such mornings are indeed wonderful - but my cat experiences such a life, sunning herself. Surely we humans can't live like animals, in the present, no matter how sunshiney. We KNOW that anything could happen tomorrow: diagnosis of cancer, terrorist bombs etc, and regardless of calamities, death will come anyway. That knowledge sets us apart and I personally think we're kidding ourselves that this life is enough to live for.

Well, I have already had a diagnosis of cancer which I survived, so I am acquainted with the fragility of life. For you to come to an agnostic/atheist board to assert that "we know" deep down that we have a creator and that we're spiritual beings is about as insulting, and futile, as me telling you that "deep down, you know there is no God/creator/Source of Life..."

[Queen of Swords]

Maybe that could be Something Else to live for?

Well, at least that's a little more polite than the claim that deep down, we know that there's some Higher Purpose In Life and that we're just lying to ourselves that there isn't.

I find it highly mysterious that I even have a life to live

I used to find it highly mysterious that I had a life to live. But then, shortly after my seventh birthday, my parents bought me a book about how babies were made. After that, it was more or less clear how I had come into existence.

so I am motivated to search for my Creator.

Oh, I'm lucky that way. I know my mom and dad.

[funinspace]

Today when I was on break at work, a girl I work with joined me in the break room. Some how religion was brought up, and she figured out I was an atheist.

She asked me the classic question, "what do you live for?"

I responded that I think it is sad that people need an excuse to want to live, and that it is insulting to think that people don't appreciate life for what it is.

But, I felt wholey unprepared to answer her question effectively, and I was wondering what some good responses I could use.

What are you guys' answers?
Concurring with what others said along the lines of: for family, children, friends, freedoms, even entertainment, loves, joys, and even the sorrows. Like someone once said: "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."…to do otherwise would be unthinkable. Whole societies some how figure out that life is worth living without the Christian God; I would ask this person why they think it's such a quandary.

[doubtingt]

For many theists, their belief in a rationally implausible afterlife is motivated by their lack of reason to live in this world, as exemplified by the common theistic expression "they're in a better place now"

My own deconversion was in some part, due to the fact that when I embraced simple enjoyment of experiencing life, I had no more emotional need to delude myself about some "better place" as an incentive to plod through this world.

Hell, the simple sensory experience of good food and a well crafted beer would be enough reason, let alone all the joy I get from being with my friends.

Also, the anti-hedonism of Xtianity is because theism's hold and appeal partly depends upon people having nothing else to live for. Thus, by making pleasure punishable by eternal hellfire, Xtianity essentially eliminates the most basic "reason to live" that is available to all for free and with no middle man.

[David B]

Today when I was on break at work, a girl I work with joined me in the break room. Some how religion was brought up, and she figured out I was an atheist.

She asked me the classic question, "what do you live for?"

I responded that I think it is sad that people need an excuse to want to live, and that it is insulting to think that people don't appreciate life for what it is.

But, I felt wholey unprepared to answer her question effectively, and I was wondering what some good responses I could use.

What are you guys' answers?

Well you could reply that you want to live, reproduce, and best equip your descendents to compete, because that is what your selfish genes make you want to do.

Or then again you could say that there you are, finding yourself alive, and being able to think about things, notice that this seems to be a rare phenomenon, so decide to make the most of it, to enjoy it and understand it as best you can, and try and leave the world in a better state than you found it. Or something like that - I don't want to put words into your mouth.

David B (has a sense of great awe when he contemplates what wonders result from the interaction of simple things like atoms, and relatively simple things like genes and neurons, in a world that is at the edge of chaos)

[Lilyofthevalley]

Well, I have already had a diagnosis of cancer which I survived, so I am acquainted with the fragility of life. For you to come to an agnostic/atheist board to assert that "we know" deep down that we have a creator and that we're spiritual beings is about as insulting, and futile, as me telling you that "deep down, you know there is no God/creator/Source of Life..."

Perhaps I haven't been careful enough in my choice of words on this 'atheist/agnostic board'. When I said 'we' I didn't mean to be personal - perhaps I should have said 'human beings' etc. This is my own personal view of the human condition, usually prefaced with 'I think' or 'In my opinion'. There is no insult intended.

(For the record I'm not a Christian, certainly not a right-wing American sort, so perhaps you see an aggression in my post which is culturally attuned.)

This forum is full of people 'asserting' that there is no God - obviously! I don't find it insulting; I find it interesting. I'm not sure of my own position either way, but like you I lean towards my own opinions.

****
I used to find it highly mysterious that I had a life to live. But then, shortly after my seventh birthday, my parents bought me a book about how babies were made. After that, it was more or less clear how I had come into existence.


[quote]Quote:
so I am motivated to search for my Creator.



Oh, I'm lucky that way. I know my mom and dad.

Thanks, Queen_of_Swords, that's the great enigma of existence solved.

[Queen of Swords]

When I said 'we' I didn't mean to be personal - perhaps I should have said 'human beings' etc.

Unless you are somehow empowered to speak for all human beings, I don't see how you could say what all human beings feel deep down inside. I wouldn't find this any more courteous than using "we".

Thanks, Queen_of_Swords, that's the great enigma of existence solved.

Through education and science, which tend to have that effect on mysteries.

[Godless Dave]

"Come on kids. You are only going to be in Disneyland for a couple of days so go on as many rides and have as much fun as you can"

or

"You're only going to be in Disneyland for a couple of days so what's the point of going on any rides at all?"



Great analogy.

[pbaylis]

The question "What do you live for?" refers to a hope that there is eternal life, which must be earned. It doesn't refer to the things everybody gets out of life in a general way. I'm sure you'll find that everything mentioned by responders to this question will also be experienced and treasured by the woman who asked this question.

I live with a deep appreciation for what is, and a hope for what could be.
Does that include a hope that there is more to the end of our lives than being mere fertliser for the next generation of daisies? Would you like to be, for example, an eternal spirit?


The more I learn about the world, the more I reflect on my astonishing luck in simply being here - in all of us being here.

Yes, it is true that the more we learn about the world, the more it seems to be lucky, until eventually we start to realise hey this is more than just luck.


I care about the future of humanity.

Nicely said. Hitler also said that. What would you like to improve with regard to humanity?



By the way, it's implicit (if not explicit) in such questions from theists that a "purpose" imposed by a diety is somehow inherently more desirable or valuable than the ones that originate from us. But in fact externally imposed purpose has no such privelaged value to us. If the Diety showed up and explained that his "purpose" for creating us was to dine on our bodies and then torture our eternal souls for his pleasure, how would that make life purposeful for US? As the saying goes: "We raise pigs for bacon; does that make life purposeful for the pig?"

The question is not meant to suggest that believers call a burdensome deity's will upon ourselves by living a spiritual life. The questioner, I feel, is trying to say that there is more to life than our bodies and our surroundings and that we are meant to grow spiritually, which is our eternal self and the one that we will be stuck with even after death. Indeed Jesus deserted his own mother to pursue his spiritual growth, apparently saying that family is not that important in the greater scheme of things.



The whole "purpose" thing seems more related to personality than to religious vs secular beliefs. I have quite a few Christian friends. Some are listless, some appear driven - just like the range found within my secular friends. Which, again, goes to show me that some people have more vigorous "meaning" or "purpose" generating constitutions than other people, whether they are religious or non-religious.

Not to call any curse upon you or anything, but let's say everything you cherished in this life was suddenly taken away from you - health, family, belongings, etc...how do you think you would react?

[Rogernme]

"what do you live for?"

As any knowledgeable Darwinian (or physicist for that matter) knows and will tell you, perceptions like free will and choice are illusions. We live only b/c a directionless evolution has resulted in our accidental formation in this accidental and purposeless universe. If we think we live for some sort of purpose, it of course is merely an illusion; that perhaps facilitates in the pointless perpetuation of our accidental species and its inevitable and senseless suffering; in it’s journey to certain extinction.

Have a nice day! :)

[pbaylis]

Yes, I think nihilism is an appropriate extrapolated condition.
Without an overriding purpose, mankind seeks substitute after substitute and clings to anything he can find that will fill his meaningless life with purpose. He marries someone and clings to her till she leaves him. Then he takes up golf and finds this extremely rewarding, till he gets tendonitis in his shoulder, so he decides to set up a nice pad in Bali till a tsunami sweeps it away, etc, etc.

As any knowledgeable Darwinian (or physicist for that matter) knows and will tell you, perceptions like free will and choice are illusions. We live only b/c a directionless evolution has resulted in our accidental formation in this accidental and purposeless universe. If we think we live for some sort of purpose, it of course is merely an illusion; that perhaps facilitates in the pointless perpetuation of our accidental species and its inevitable and senseless suffering; in it’s journey to certain extinction.

Have a nice day! :)

[Quetzalcoatl]

Without an overriding purpose, mankind seeks substitute after substitute and clings to anything he can find that will fill his meaningless life with purpose.

Cool that explains why some people are so desperate to believe in NDEs. Thanks for clearing that up.

[never been there]

Does that include a hope that there is more to the end of our lives than being mere fertliser for the next generation of daisies?

What do you mean, "mere"? What's wrong with daisies as an ambition?

[Enlighten Me]

Yes, I think nihilism is an appropriate extrapolated condition.
Without an overriding purpose, mankind seeks substitute after substitute and clings to anything he can find that will fill his meaningless life with purpose. He marries someone and clings to her till she leaves him. Then he takes up golf and finds this extremely rewarding, till he gets tendonitis in his shoulder, so he decides to set up a nice pad in Bali till a tsunami sweeps it away, etc, etc.

This seems to be your mantra, since you recited a slight variation of it in another thread. I see this negative description as a diminution of life that reveals YOUR hatred of mankind and this earthly life. If this is your true perception of life, then I can understand why you look forward to a better one....

[Queen of Swords]

Without an overriding purpose, mankind seeks substitute after substitute and clings to anything he can find that will fill his meaningless life with purpose.

Well, if you've decided a priori that life is meaningless unless one is a member of the Only True Religion (i.e. yours), I can see why you espouse such an unhappy, pessimistic position. I am glad I am not a christian, if this is how Real Christians feel.

[pbaylis]

Yeah, it was quite coincidental that two threads asked for the same piece of truth, so naturally you know...I did what was warranted.

This seems to be your mantra, since you recited a slight variation of it in another thread. I see this negative description as a diminution of life that reveals YOUR hatred of mankind and this earthly life. If this is your true perception of life, then I can understand why you look forward to a better one....

[pbaylis]

I love sarcasm at IIDB, it is a clear indicator of a begrudging acknowedgement of truth. Basically, rather than say nothing, you just have to have a desperation dig or a parting shot.

Well, if you've decided a priori that life is meaningless unless one is a member of the Only True Religion (i.e. yours), I can see why you espouse such an unhappy, pessimistic position. I am glad I am not a christian, if this is how Real Christians feel.

[pbaylis]

What do you mean, "mere"? What's wrong with daisies as an ambition?

Haha :thumbs:

[Queen of Swords]

I love sarcasm at IIDB, it is a clear indicator of a begrudging acknowedgement of truth.

Only if one is so depserate for agreement or acknowledgement that one has to misinterpret sarcasm as this.

Basically, rather than say nothing, you just have to have a desperation dig or a parting shot.

Eye, plank, etc.

[pbaylis]

Hehe...nice wriggling.

Only if one is so depserate for agreement or acknowledgement that one has to misinterpret sarcasm as this.



Eye, plank, etc.

[Queen of Swords]

Hehe...nice wriggling.

When Jesus's own words put you on a hook, I'd say it's you who's doing the wriggling.

[pbaylis]

Not at all. I feel very confident that what I said is true and I'm happy to be a theist in this case.

When Jesus's own words put you on a hook, I'd say it's you who's doing the wriggling.

[Queen of Swords]

Not at all. I feel very confident that what I said is true

Nothing wrong with being in a minority of one.

and I'm happy to be a theist in this case.

Well, there are theists who care about obeying Jesus's commands and demonstrating the "fruits of the spirit" and theists who have no such concerns.

[Hedshaker]

When Jesus's own words put you on a hook, I'd say it's you who's doing the wriggling.

Absolutely bang on the button :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Orbit

[Godless Dave]

I can't say I live for anything. I'm alive. What the hell else am I gonna do?

[radagast]

Personally, I plan to have a canned response if ever asked:


I live for the paycheck.
...

Uh, you don't get a paycheck to live. Oh, yeah, I'd heard that some of you do it for free....