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View Full Version : The interesting case of Mirza Guhlam


SkepticBoyLee
August 6, 2005, 10:32 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1c/Mirza_ghulam_ahmad.jpg/200px-Mirza_ghulam_ahmad.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Ghulam_Ahmad

This guy Mirza claimed to have been a new prophet of Islam, the promissed Messiah, the second coming of Jesus. Of course this created quite a problem with the mainstream Muslims.

What is interesting though is that he engaged in a "prayer duel" with a man named John Alexander Dowie that was carried by dozens of US newspapers. this guy, Dowie, clalimed to have been a prophet of Christianity and set up a city in Illinois called "Zion". This Mirza guy, much older according to the leaders of his movement "prayer dueled" this Dowie guy to death.

John Alexander Dowie was by birth a Scotsman. He was born in Edinburgh in 1847 and studied for the Church in his early years.

In 1872 he went to Australia as a cleric and acquired a certain degree of reputation for healing. In 1888 he went over to the United States of America and started the publication of ~ paper called Leaves of Healing. In 1896 he founded the Christian Catholic sect. In 1901 he started building a town in the State of Illinois which he called Zion City. He established many factories within the area of the town and became in effect the uncrowned king of Zion City. In the same year he claimed to be Elijah III.

Dowie was a bitter enemy of Islam and of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him. He gave repeated expression to his hostility towards Islam in his speeches and writings which were published in the Leaves of Healing. On one occasion he delivered himself of the following despicable verbal caricature of Islam:



"The method I propose is that Mr. Dowie should come into the field against me with the permission of his false god. I am an old man of more than sixty-six years of age. I suffer from diabetes, dysentery, migraine, and deficiency of blood. I realize, however that my life depends not upon the condition of my health but upon the command of God. If the false god of Mr. Dowie possesses any power he will certainly permit him to come forth against me. If instead of the destruction of all the Muslims Mr. Dowie's purpose can be served by my death alone, he will have established a great sign, in consequence of which millions of people will acknowledge the son of Mary as god and will also believe in Dowie as his apostle. I affirm it truly that if the disgust that the Muslims of the world feel towards the god of the Christians were to be placed on one side of the scale and the disgust that I feel towards him were to be placed on the other side of the scale my disgust would be found to be heavier than the disgust of all the Muslims of the world. The truth is that Jesus son of Mary is from me and I am from God. Blessed is he who recognizes me and most unfortunate is he from whose eye I am hidden (Review of Religions, Urdu, Vol. I, No.9, pp. 342-348). "

The challenge of the Promised Messiah was given great publicity in the American Press, in some organs of which its substance was published almost verbatim, among them the Literary Digest of 20 June 1903, the Burlington Free Press of 27 June 1903, the New York Commercial Advertiser of 26 October 1903.

Thus the issue was squarely joined between Ahmad and Dowie. From that moment Dowie entered upon a progressive decline of all his affairs. His health began to deteriorate, his followers began to have doubts and questioned his claims, he began to encounter financial difficulties. In 1905 he suffered a severe stroke of paralysis and was directed by his physician to move to a warmer climate. He was taken to Mexico and later to Jamaica. The affairs of Zion were handed over to a nominee of his who soon turned against him. His wife and children deserted him and he was charged with diverse il1icit and immoral practices. On 9 March 1907 he died a miserable death, The prophecy of the Promised Messiah was truly and completely fulfilled.
http://www.alislam.org/books/victory/


This "prayer duel" was carried by 44 US newspapers including the front page of the Boston Herald issue of 23 June 1907

Also curiously the leaders of the movement claim to have 200 MILLION adherants while the official numbers say 10 million (putting them at the level of Mormonism). Many sites say "between 10 and 200 million memebers". Where are these 190 million memebers?

Does anyone know anything else about this sect, this Mirza guy, this prayer duel incident ect. ect.?

Ponzi
August 6, 2005, 11:49 PM
This is the first time I've ever heard of this. Do you have any links or scans of those newspaper articles?

SkepticBoyLee
August 7, 2005, 01:31 AM
IVe seen the newspaper scans( on another forum posted by an Amahdyyi Islamist) but haven't been able to locate it on the internet myself.



From: Abubakr Ben Ishmael Salahuddin
Email: <e-mail address removed>
Date: 20 Jul 2000
Time: 20:18:25
Remote Name: 204.233.247.4



Between the years of about 1903 to 1907 (Dowie died in 1907, as you know, at least 44 major newspapers in the United States [to obtain an *actual* copy of the newspaper for free, contact me at the above email, and I'll give you the reference--I'm not at home now], including the Sunday Herald of Boston, tracked a *spiritual* duel (this is no joke) that occurred between Dr. Dowie and Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, a Muslim who lived far away in India.

Dowie had promised that he would bring an end to the religion of Islam, which he hated with a passion [though he was also abusive to other Christian sects]. When Hazrat Ahmad heard of this, he challenged Dowie to what is called in Islam a "mubihalla."

To engage in a mubihalla, each party prays that God will destroy *the false one*, whoever that might be. One *does not* pray that the other be destroyed. One prays that *whoever* is false be destroyed.

<removed to preven copyright violation>


http://www.fwselijah.com/guest/_entries/00000004.htm

Mughal
August 9, 2005, 04:33 PM
http://www.irshad.org/qadianism.php

SkepticBoyLee
August 9, 2005, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the response Mughal. I have seen that site and the http://alhafeez.org/rashid/ (alhafeez, anti-amahyydi movement) site as well. I can find no secular criticism of this sect. Just mainstream muslim criticism. Of course the Amahdyyi's say "Yeah see thats anti-amahdyi propoganda and lies".

Also its curious that I cant find any material about the Mirza vs. Dowie incident since it was carried by 44 US newspapers including the Boston Herald.

IF their own 200 million adherants figure is correct that wsould make their sect the 6th or 7th (off the top of my head) RELIGION period yet there is virtually no info on them besides their won and their orthodox Muslim critics.

SkepticBoyLee
October 20, 2005, 01:57 AM
Im upping this on the chance that some others who did not see this thread the first time know anything about this.

Raztafarian
October 20, 2005, 05:29 AM
200 million is a vastly inflated number, for what is essentially a Pakistani religion only.

I guess you've seen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadi ?

SkepticBoyLee
October 28, 2005, 07:55 PM
I found a newspaper scan from the Boston HErald. It is too large to post here so

http://www.muslim.org/light/light043-img-l.htm

SkepticBoyLee
December 21, 2005, 01:52 PM
Now Amadhi Muslims are claiming that not one of them died in the Earthquakes in Pakistan and that the quakes were sent by God to punish those who persecute them.

premjan
December 21, 2005, 01:58 PM
Ahmadiyas are an Indian Muslim sect. I'm betting that this is just a bit of the standard Indian godman spin.

SkepticBoyLee
December 21, 2005, 02:13 PM
Yes but a good portion of them live in Pakistan.

premjan
December 21, 2005, 02:21 PM
Well, it originated in the Indian subcontinent I mean (Pakistan is a political entity but not really a cultural one).

River
December 21, 2005, 03:08 PM
Mirza Ghulam doesn't seem to be in accordance with anything the Prophet

Muhammad (pbuh) said....

The traditions reference the Second Coming of the Promised Messiah

In Damascus, Syria.....not India


-River

espritch
December 21, 2005, 11:07 PM
Wow! A prayer duel. Let's pray to God to kill one of us.

If I were God, I'd kill them both just for the sheer affrontery of it all.

Of course, I suppose that if you keep such a duel going long enough, someone will die...sooner or later.