Hiroshima Miracle

[pbaylis]

8 Jesuit priests unaffected and their home undamaged even though they were only 8 blocks (about 1km) from the Hiroshima bomb's epicentre.

http://holysouls.com/sar/rosarymiracle.htm.

[post tenebras lux]

8 Jesuit priests unaffected and their home undamaged even though they were only 8 blocks (about 1km) from the Hiroshima bomb's epicentre.

http://holysouls.com/sar/rosarymiracle.htm.Third sentence of the first testimony reads - "Half a million people were annihilated." Given that the generally accepted total figure (i.e. including the bomb's after effects) is in the region of 140,000, why should I continue to read such insulting bullshit?

As you placed this in EoG, I was wondering what sort of god you think this 'miracle of the rosary' proves to exist? Given the millions who died in that war, the saving of eight such as these would - at most - point to a trickster god such as Loki and certainly not some all-loving all-powerful god (such as the trintarian one who - along with its mother - is the god usually associated with the rosary).

Given the death tolls in various theatres and fronts of war during WWII, do you, pbaylis, think the claim that these eight souls were miraculously protected is really evidence for an all-loving, all-powerful god?

Luxie

[FarmMama]

Moving to GRD

[French Prometheus]

"Miracle" Mosques Defy Tsunami Onslaught (http://islamicsydney.com/story.php?id=1966)

So, Pbaylis, are you gonna put a rag on your head, get down on your knees and start chanting 'Allah is great'?

[Queen of Swords]

If saying the rosary is all it takes for miracles to occur, I'm surprised that my grandmother's sister, a devout nun, died of meningitis two years ago. You'd think that whatever magic force was emanating from the beads would have worked in either case.

[IamMoose]

but they all lived well past that awful day with no radiation sickness, no loss of hearing, or any other visible long term defects or maladies

I understood - might be wrong - that very few people died of radiation sickness... those who died afterwards died of injuries sustained in the explosion.

[Javaman]

An interesting source is available form the Avalon project from Yale University:
The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
by The Manhattan Engineer District, June 29, 1946. (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/abomb/mpmenu.htm)

In one chapter they discuss mortality rates as a function of distance:
TABLE C
Per-Cent Mortality at Various Distances
Distance from X, in feet Per-cent Mortality
0 - 1000 93.0%
1000 - 2000 92.0
2000 - 3000 86.0
3000 - 4000 69.0
4000 - 5000 49.0
5000 - 6000 31.5
6000 - 7000 12.5
7000 - 8000 1.3
8000 - 9000 0.5
9000 - 10,000 0.0

[IamMoose]

Interesting. So these guys were by no means unique in surviving from that distance, though they were certainly lucky. However, if 7 percent of others did, I don't really see how anyone can claim it as a miracle..

[sakrilege]

1902 eruption of Mt. Pelee, Martinique (http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volcanoes_work/Pelee.html) ~26,000 people were killed
The only other known survivor in St. Pierre became a minor celebrity. He was a husky 25-year-old roustabout named Louis-Auguste Cyparis, locally known simply as "Samson". In early April, Samson was put in jail for wounding one of his friends with a cutlass. Towards the end of his sentence, he escaped from a labouring job in town, danced all night, and then turned himself into the authorities the following morning. For this, he was sentenced to solitary confinement for a week in the prison's dungeon. On May 8, he was alone in his dungeon with only a small grated opening cut into the wall above the door. While waiting for his breakfast, his cell became dark and he was overcome by intense gusts of hot air mixed with ash that had entered through the grated opening. He held his breathe while experiencing intense pain. After a few moments, the heat subsided. He was severally burned, but managed to survive for four days before he was rescued by people exploring the ruins of St. Pierre. After he recovered, he received a pardon and eventually joined the Barnum & Bailey Circus, where he toured the world billed as the "Lone Survivor of St. Pierre. What a miracle

[Danhalen]

How about the miracle of Dresden? You know, the miracle where an entire city was annihilated. Almost every single person that lived in Dresden was a Christian, and they were almost completely wiped out. How's that for a miracle?

Does God only save Christians when they're in a land of heathens?

[K]

IamMoose:

Interesting. So these guys were by no means unique in surviving from that distance, though they were certainly lucky. However, if 7 percent of others did, I don't really see how anyone can claim it as a miracle..

Actually 1 Km would put them in the 3000 - 4000 foot range which would mean the mortality rate was 69%. That means that roughly 1/3 of the people in their distance range survived.

[Aria]

People are under the mistaken impression that "atomic bomb = huge" when it isn't always true. The nukes dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not really all that strong, compared to what we can do today. 1km is quite a distance when talking about that kind of nuke.

[Aetas]

I am going to second the fact that 180,000 people died in the atomic bomb attack and god decides to only save those 8? doesn't make sense to me. In fact your god sound like an asshole!

Besides as has been pointed out, it was no miracle.

[Dharma]

8 Jesuit priests unaffected and their home undamaged even though they were only 8 blocks (about 1km) from the Hiroshima bomb's epicentre.

http://holysouls.com/sar/rosarymiracle.htm.

oh what a miracle! Christians reciting mantras to their pagan Goddess' and calling other people pagans while using pagan spirituality like the rosary...how pagan! :rolleyes:

[IamMoose]

IamMoose:



Actually 1 Km would put them in the 3000 - 4000 foot range which would mean the mortality rate was 69%. That means that roughly 1/3 of the people in their distance range survived.


Oh yeah .. I am confusing feet and metres :)

[mirage]

Let's drop an H bomb on Medjugorje! I'm sure that almost everyone will survive.

[Machiavelli]

Interesting. So these guys were by no means unique in surviving from that distance, though they were certainly lucky. However, if 7 percent of others did, I don't really see how anyone can claim it as a miracle..

Surviving is one thing, but their homes being undamaged does sound a little hard to believe.

[Dharma]

Surviving is one thing, but their homes being undamaged does sound a little hard to believe.

That's assuming the mostly Christian US didn't know there were jesuit missionaries there.

But I guess the only way to test the hypothesis to see if it is more effective to worship the pagan virgin goddess Mary than worshipping the son of God Christ in order to be saved from a nuclear bomb is a few more missionaries willing to have a nuke dropped on them? Any missionary care to take a try?

if this "scientifical" experiment is successful, and Jesuit missionaries indeed survive practicing their rosary to virgin Goddess Mary after having a nuke directly land on them, than the Buddhists should definately try chanting the name of Quan yin...schools throughout the world will be taught that chanting names can save one from nuclear bombs -- atleast better than hiding under your desk and counting to 100. :rolling:

[post tenebras lux]

Surviving is one thing, but their homes being undamaged does sound a little hard to believe.What if their church was standing between them and the blast a kilometer away? Especially, if they'd not gone native and so used stone and brick to build it.

Did pbaylis provide any photos to prove it was undamaged anyway, or are we just taking a jesuit's word for it?

Luxie

[Naruto]

I'm interested in hearing pbaylis' response to the thorough raping of this thread.

[Sven]

I see that pbaylis is again back after some months and has learned nothing new.

[French Prometheus]

I'm still waiting for her explanation of how Christian miracles differ from Muslim or Hindu ones.

[premjan]

There was that tsunami miracle in Indonesia / Maldives where mosques (even a rickety wooden one) were untouched where other buildings collapsed.

Christian miracles seem somehow more canonical in nature, even as Christianity itself has substantially more organization than Hinduism. Islam doesn't have many real miracles as the founder seems to have discouraged thinking about miracles (other than the literary miracle of the Koran).

[Plognark]

Yeah, because god hates filthy heathens, obviously. Let the dirty Japs' skin melt off their body while he saves half a dozen true believers :rolleyes:

Whatever.

[Nero's Boot]

Yeah, because god hates filthy heathens, obviously. Let the dirty Japs' skin melt off their body while he saves half a dozen true believers :rolleyes:

Whatever.

Meh. It's par for the course for the omnipotent barbarian berserker mentioned in the Bible.

--that's pretty much that particular divinity's Standard Operating Procedure NB

[Plognark]

Meh. It's par for the course for the omnipotent barbarian berserker mentioned in the Bible.

--that's pretty much that particular divinity's Standard Operating Procedure NB

Yeah, I suppose that's true. At least the OT version.

I just find it morally repulsive for Christians to somehow paint this as a nice or uplifting story. It's repugnant.
It's basically saying "If you believe in Jesus, he'll let the other filthy sinners and non believers burn and die, but you'll be special and protected!"

It's so piggish. It's like sucking up to the school bully to protect you from all the other mean kids.

All it does is appeal to people's insecurities, their egos, and their desire to be unique, special, and important. There's no love in this story whatsoever.

[Nero's Boot]

Yeah, I suppose that's true. At least the OT version.

Yeah, you're right; the New Testament version is much much much MUCH worse. If you dare not to love him with as much obsessive fanaticism as he loves you, then he'll lock you in his basement boiler room and torture you for eternity. That's quite a step up from the raging, mindless genocidal mad-god from the Old Testament.

I just find it morally repulsive for Christians to somehow paint this as a nice or uplifting story. It's repugnant.

It's also Counting The Hits And Forgetting The Misses, too.

It's basically saying "If you believe in Jesus, he'll let the other filthy sinners and non believers burn and die, but you'll be special and protected!"

Again, that's Standard Operating Procedure for the God of the Bible. He seems to revel in death, bloodshed, and suffering.

It's so piggish. It's like sucking up to the school bully to protect you from all the other mean kids.

All it does is appeal to people's insecurities, their egos, and their desire to be unique, special, and important. There's no love in this story whatsoever.

Again, that's just the way YHWH does things.

--according to theists, the universe is run by a giant sadist NB

[Dharma]

I'm still waiting for her explanation of how Christian miracles differ from Muslim or Hindu ones.

the typical response of fanatics is, my miracle was done by the one true God, other people's miracles were done by evil demonic forces. :rolleyes:

[Plognark]

the typical response of fanatics is, my miracle was done by the one true God, other people's miracles were done by evil demonic forces. :rolleyes:

Or that they aren't true miracles, and that they're fake or misinterpreted somehow.

Of course, they often hypocritically fail to apply the same evidentiary standards to their own belief system. :rolleyes:

[Jedi Mind Trick]

The Tree God performed a miracle that day too.
These Trees (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/hiroshima.htm) were at about the same distance from ground zero as were the Jesuits.

[Dharma]

The Tree God performed a miracle that day too.
These Trees (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/hiroshima.htm) were at about the same distance from ground zero as were the Jesuits.

oh come all ye faithful! Joyful and triumphant! Oh come let us adore it, oh come let us adore it, oh come let us adore it!

[g-21-lto]

Does the fact that most of the survivors probably practiced Shinto mean that Shinto is the one true religion?

That at least would make more sense than the Jesuit article.

[firebird]

:thumbs: Third sentence of the first testimony reads - "Half a million people were annihilated." Given that the generally accepted total figure (i.e. including the bomb's after effects) is in the region of 140,000, why should I continue to read such insulting bullshit?

As you placed this in EoG, I was wondering what sort of god you think this 'miracle of the rosary' proves to exist? Given the millions who died in that war, the saving of eight such as these would - at most - point to a trickster god such as Loki and certainly not some all-loving all-powerful god (such as the trintarian one who - along with its mother - is the god usually associated with the rosary).

Given the death tolls in various theatres and fronts of war during WWII, do you, pbaylis, think the claim that these eight souls were miraculously protected is really evidence for an all-loving, all-powerful god?

Luxie

:thumbs: :eek:

good post, I agree with you 100 percent.

[The Skipper]

8 Jesuit priests unaffected and their home undamaged even though they were only 8 blocks (about 1km) from the Hiroshima bomb's epicentre.

http://holysouls.com/sar/rosarymiracle.htm.


Sounds like a religious spin..Like this


http://www.jafariyanews.com/2k5_news/jan/4mosque.jpg

http://www.jafariyanews.com/2k5_news/jan/4_unseenhand.htm

Tsunami: ‘God's unseen hand’ saved Indonesia’s mosques

BANDA ACEH, Indonesia: Indonesia's mosques defied colossal forces of worst tsunami under ‘God's invisible hand’.....


Nevermind that the mosque was made of stone while the surrounding buildings were made of cheap materials in a relatively predominately poor muslim community.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2005/01/15/national/data/national_16085637.html

Villagers are everywhere – scavenging for valuables and edibles in the ruins of collapsed homes and garbage heaps. The closer you get to the beach, the more intense the devastation becomes. At Lhok Nga, the only man-made edifice left standing is a stone mosque, rising in defiant solitude among the remains of more flimsily constructed buildings.




At any rate, I guess someone should tell allah / god about the koranic verse that goes something like one drop of muslim blood is worth more than the kabbah, because he forgot his own laws in this case.


The need to believe regardless of what the ideaology and to turn a blind eye to facts seems to be a major scourge on our species...from religions, to roswell, conspiracies etc

[The Skipper]

"Miracle" Mosques Defy Tsunami Onslaught (http://islamicsydney.com/story.php?id=1966)

So, Pbaylis, are you gonna put a rag on your head, get down on your knees and start chanting 'Allah is great'?


Oops, posted to soon Prometheus lol. Oh well... :D

[The Skipper]

How about the miracle of Dresden? You know, the miracle where an entire city was annihilated. Almost every single person that lived in Dresden was a Christian, and they were almost completely wiped out. How's that for a miracle?

Does God only save Christians when they're in a land of heathens?


That must not have been "true christians" :D

[The Skipper]

That's assuming the mostly Christian US didn't know there were jesuit missionaries there.

But I guess the only way to test the hypothesis to see if it is more effective to worship the pagan virgin goddess Mary than worshipping the son of God Christ in order to be saved from a nuclear bomb is a few more missionaries willing to have a nuke dropped on them? Any missionary care to take a try?

if this "scientifical" experiment is successful, and Jesuit missionaries indeed survive practicing their rosary to virgin Goddess Mary after having a nuke directly land on them, than the Buddhists should definately try chanting the name of Quan yin...schools throughout the world will be taught that chanting names can save one from nuclear bombs -- atleast better than hiding under your desk and counting to 100. :rolling:


If we look at the experiments on a small scale like "Snake Handlin' or Drinkin' strychnine

http://a-s.clayton.edu/rosenburg/smith.htm

"Bites occur infrequently, and are interpreted as a sign that "the victim experienced a wavering of faith or failed to follow the Holy Ghost."

The article above notes of 63 deaths from snake handling along. Gess, guess dat der faith wasnt strong nuff'

There will always be an excuse.