And people elected this guy? (Merged)

[SpellStitchedNerd]

In a USA Today article, Utah State Sen. D. Chris Buttars said:

The trouble with the "missing link" is that it is still missing! In fact, the whole fossil chain that could link apes to man is also missing! The theory of evolution, which states that man evolved from some other species, has more holes in it than a crocheted bathtub.

I realize that is a dramatic statement, so to be clear, let me restate: There is zero scientific fossil evidence that demonstrates organic evolutionary linkage between primates and man.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050809/cm_usatoday/evolutionlacksfossillink;_ylt=Avkjil4fctMpaoE27hTtM7Ws0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3YWFzYnA2BHNlYwM3NDI-)

GAAAAKKK!!!! This public display of extreme ignorance needs to be shown the be the blatant lie that it is in a very public forum. We can't just let this go without notice. :angry:

[RBH]

Buttars is one of our best friends, because he rejects the Discovery Institute's (http://www.discovery.org/) script ("ID is real science not religion; and you should teach the controversy"), and roams far off the DI's reservation. The more Buttars talks and writes, the better! The DI is running like a deer to distance itself from Buttars, even as it is tiptoing away from Dover PA. The big tent is looking more and more ragged as people like Buttars and Connie Morris (http://jgrr.blogspot.com/2005/06/connie-morris.html) of the Kansas State Board of Education talk out loud. May they blather unhindered! :devil3:

RBH

[Hyndis]

Err...humans are primates.

[Monkey Boy]

Pardon me if this is old news:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-08-08-oppose_x.htm

Our friend Sen. Chris Buttars from Utah says there is zero fossil evidence for human evolution.

[Hookpunch]

Wow - what does that say about the state of education that a Senator can be that ignorant? I am not American but I always assumed American pols were well educated, informed people (okay Bush I assumed was an anomaly).

[Monkey Boy]

Doh! I see the other thread now.

[Donnmathan]

Unfortunately, American politicos are no better or worse than the bulk of the citizens - that is to say, 60% would rather believe in magic than science. A rather bizarre state of affairs, and likely the reason we seem to be falling behind the learning curve in this country. Anyone else notice that it seems like a large portion of the best scientists in the U.S. of A. were born in other countries?


As to how this guy got elected...well, I just assume the folks in the state of Utah were having an off day. Happens. I hope that's the reason, anyway...

[Worldtraveller]

Actually, he's right...sorta.

We actually have more missing links now than we did 150 years ago.

See, we used to think there as a missing link between A and C. ow, we found, A,B, F, K, and M, but are missing all the ones in between!!

Therefore the bible is true....?? Nah, that last part still doesn't quite follow.

Cheers,
Lane

[chapka]

Wow - what does that say about the state of education that a Senator can be that ignorant? I am not American but I always assumed American pols were well educated, informed people (okay Bush I assumed was an anomaly).

Just to clarify: this is a state senator (in the Utah senate), not a United States senator (in the U.S. senate). This means that in this case he represents only a particular suburb (West Jordan) of one city (Salt Lake City) in the state of Utah, which is a pretty scary part of the U.S. to start with.

[Hookpunch]

Unfortunately, American politicos are no better or worse than the bulk of the citizens - that is to say, 60% would rather believe in magic than science. A rather bizarre state of affairs, and likely the reason we seem to be falling behind the learning curve in this country. Anyone else notice that it seems like a large portion of the best scientists in the U.S. of A. were born in other countries?


As to how this guy got elected...well, I just assume the folks in the state of Utah were having an off day. Happens. I hope that's the reason, anyway...

Actually that is not just an American problem - Blair makes some whacko statements from time to time as well - and I believe he is an Oxford grad.

We have had our share of evolution deniers in Canada too - a leader of a major party -Stockwell Day. The best line when he espoused his creationist view came from a government minister "I would like to inform the leader of the opposition that the Flintstones were not history."

[JamesKrieger]

My letter to the editor for USA Today:


Democrat Chris Buttars gets just about everything wrong in his essay.



First, he says God has been taken out of the public forum. However, I can walk down the street and run into numerous churches. People are free to wear religious symbols and pray in public. God is everywhere. Chris’s persecution is imagined. The only thing that people can’t do is use public taxpayer money to fund religious expression.



Second, he says the Supreme court has taken prayer out of schools. He is wrong again. The law says that children are free to pray in school whenever they want, as long as it doesn’t disrupt classroom activity. The only thing that is not legal is government-sponsored, teacher-led prayer.



Finally, he claims there is no fossil evidence linking man to its ape-like ancestor. Wrong again! A brief inspection of www.talkorigins.org will show anyone that there is a huge amount of fossil evidence supporting the evolution of man from a hominid ancestor. In fact, the fossil record is littered with transitions between various species. Buttars needs to also realize that there are numerous other lines of evidence (genetic, biological, geographical, etc.) that all point towards common descent.



The state of Utah should elect someone more educated on the issues to be their Senator.

[ApatheticParasites]

Makes me glad I'll be in the UK in a month. Although my luck I'll leave the evolution deniers and find myself steeped in a steaming pool of "crystal healers" and new age woo wooery.

Blair does say alot of whacky things but he hasn't ever denied evolution, has he?.

[NottyImp]

Blair does say alot of whacky things but he hasn't ever denied evolution, has he?.

Not as such. But from the little we know of his opinions on the matter, he'd be quite happy for Creationism to be taught in schools.

[ecco]

Good letter James. Maybe you should send it on the the good Senator.

From the Utah State Senate web site:

Salt Lake
D. Chris Buttars (R)
Email (dcbuttars@utahsenate.org <dcbuttars@utahsenate.org>)
9241 S. Lisa Ave.West Jordan, Utah 84088
Home (801) 561-0535

The (R) would seem to indicate that he is a Republican

[Spanish_Inquisitor]

The theory of evolution, which states that man evolved from some other species, has more holes in it than a crocheted bathtub. :rolling:

Love those metaphors. How about this one?

Chris Buttars has a mind as tight as a wicker nuclear reactor.

Ok, I'll go crawl back in my hole.

SI

[JamesKrieger]

Good letter James. Maybe you should send it on the the good Senator.

From the Utah State Senate web site:

Salt Lake
D. Chris Buttars (R)
Email (dcbuttars@utahsenate.org <dcbuttars@utahsenate.org>)
9241 S. Lisa Ave.West Jordan, Utah 84088
Home (801) 561-0535

The (R) would seem to indicate that he is a Republican

Yeah, you're right. I saw the D and didn't see the R and assumed Democrat.

[discombobulated]

If the last information on dear Mr. Buttars that I saw was correct, he was ripped a new orifice when he suggested teaching this kind of crap. The lack of support, especially by the Utah Board of Education, was enough to cause him to decide not to introduce a bill during this year's legislative session at all.

As to the rest of the superstitious horseshit coming out of his piehole, I'd be surprised if he got any traction out here. This is a Mormon state, and as such has a shaky relationship with evangelical YECs. "Evilution" just doesn't seem to be a successful pet project for the nutjobs. The only broad support I saw for Buttars' idea in the first place was from the Eagle Forum, and I'd place my money on the Board of Education over the Eagle Forum right now.

-disco

[Stumpjumper]

Wow - what does that say about the state of education that a Senator can be that ignorant? I am not American but I always assumed American pols were well educated, informed people (okay Bush I assumed was an anomaly).

Personally, I'm afraid of what this ID debate says for the state of public education in the us. I believe that most US Senators are educated enough to know that evolution is pretty well founded. It totally boggles my mind when I see this type of crap in the Op-Ed section. IMO, it is really just political manuevering that makes well educated people accept ID and push it as science.

[Punc_E]

...And then Ookla reached out and touched the Monolith...

Sad to say that schools across the country are screwing their science departments. My AP Biology teacher had to buy our Drosophila melanogaster fruitflies out of his own pocket because the school siphoned off science funding to double the size of the weight-room for the football team.

Add fundamentalist administrators to the mix (My principal held a prayer session every Wednesday morning in the school cafeteria) it gets really fun. In 2002 I was asked by the science department to paint a mural on the hallway of a timeline stretching from the Big Bang to Now. When I was about at the point where I was detailing the Cambrian Explosion (with a lovely green-and-pink dappled Anomalocaris chasing down a nondescript trilobite), Stephen Jay Gould passed away. I had been using his Wonderful Life as a reference for the Burgess Shale fauna, and, having greatly enjoyed his work, it saddened me to see him go. I asked the science teachers if it'd be okay if I dedicated the mural to his memory, and they wholeheartedly encouraged it (especially my AP Bio teacher, who's a huge fan of Gould - he read the essay on the Panda's Thumb to us in class when we started the unit on evolution) so there's a small note to the effect of "dedicated to the memory of Stephen Jay Gould, 1941-2002" at about two billion years ago on the timeline.

The principal saw it, threw a tantrum, had it removed and suspended me for three days. It would have been a week but my parents called the school board and complained.

[Infinite_Rules]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is wrong with Utah?

As can be seen from my profile, I'm not an American and have no idea how Utah is like, but it seems to be a heaven for many crazy things. I noticed many financial crooks, conmen and religious nuts seem to be very active in the state.

Don't ask me for citations, it's just a general impression. Is it because of the lax laws they have there? Or maybe it's due to demographics, i.e. those at the lower end of the social-economic barrel congregate there?

[Spanish_Inquisitor]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is wrong with Utah?

As can be seen from my profile, I'm not an American and have no idea how Utah is like, but it seems to be a heaven for many crazy things. I noticed many financial crooks, conmen and religious nuts seem to be very active in the state.

Don't ask me for citations, it's just a general impression. Is it because of the lax laws they have there? Or maybe it's due to demographics, i.e. those at the lower end of the social-economic barrel congregate there?
A very large percentage of the population are Mormons. It's where (Salt Lake City) Joseph Smith settled down and started his religion. Not sure if that adds to the perceived quirkiness of the state, but it does make the state somewhat different than the other 49.

SI

[josephpalazzo]

A very large percentage of the population are Mormons. It's where (Salt Lake City) Joseph Smith settled down and started his religion. Not sure if that adds to the perceived quirkiness of the state, but it does make the state somewhat different than the other 49.

SI

The only thing admirable about the Mormons is their unabashedly embracement of polygamy. The rest of the world should follow suite.

[Ghost Of Lectricity]

Slate.com has a very good article on the current debate that actually does a good job of framing the evolutionist side and describing why it is the only valid theory to teach in the classroom. Linky (http://slate.msn.com/id/2124297/fr/rss/)
A brief excerpt:
One possible avenue is to focus more strongly on the practical consequences of resisting scientific reality. In a world where Koreans are cloning dogs, can the U.S. afford—ethically or economically—to raise our children on fraudulent biology? But whatever tack they take, evolutionists should quit pretending their views are no threat to believers. This insults our intelligence, and the president is doing that already.
My thoughts exactly. Teaching children incorrect information they will be ill suited for biology in college and beyond. I think that is often overlooked.

[Punc_E]

The only thing admirable about the Mormons is their unabashedly embracement of polygamy. The rest of the world should follow suite.

While I agree from a biological standpoint (I think I read an article somewhere linking testicle size to how polygamous that organism is) one girlfriend is already more than I can handle, so you can have my extras.

[Richard Forrest]

The only thing admirable about the Mormons is their unabashedly embracement of polygamy. The rest of the world should follow suite.

Okay, for me it's pretty irrelevant - no sane woman would take on a ageing man with seven children already. But for the sake of my sons, I sincerely hope not!

The male fantasy of being surrounded by nubile females with whom he can have sex at will may sound great - if you happen to be that man. Bearing in mind that humans have more or less equal numbers of males and females, if I have four wives, it means that three other men have none. That's pretty tough on them! In societies which practice polygamy it's tough being one of this oppressed majority, and the sanctions against those who break the rules - e.g. sneaking into the harem - are savage.

Richard Forrest

[Punc_E]

Oops, double post.

[discombobulated]

Re: polygamy:

---

Our stay in Salt Lake City amounted to only two days, and therefore we
had no time to make the customary inquisition into the workings of
polygamy and get up the usual statistics and deductions preparatory to
calling the attention of the nation at large once more to the matter.

I had the will to do it. With the gushing self-sufficiency of youth I
was feverish to plunge in headlong and achieve a great reform here--until
I saw the Mormon women. Then I was touched. My heart was wiser than my
head. It warmed toward these poor, ungainly and pathetically "homely"
creatures, and as I turned to hide the generous moisture in my eyes, I
said, "No--the man that marries one of them has done an act of Christian
charity which entitles him to the kindly applause of mankind, not their
harsh censure--and the man that marries sixty of them has done a deed of
open-handed generosity so sublime that the nations should stand uncovered
in his presence and worship in silence."
---
Mark Twain, "Roughing It", Chapter XIV

[nogods4me]

Yeah, thank goodness no one in the federal government *cough* Santorum *cough* is that stupid.