Spinal Age??

[ashe]

Is it conceivably possible to determine an adult's age by examining X-rays of their spine? What would be the margin of error in years?

What other methods are there for determining a person's approximate age in the absence of birth data?

I'm having trouble finding information about these online... If you have any idea, I appreciate it.

ashe

[ashe]

Also, do any of these methods break down beyond a certain age?

For example, a given technique might lose accuracy as age increases beyond 40 years.

[ashe]

Oh yes, finally, any techniques suggested should be for determining the age of a living human being.

[ashe]

Ok, here is the kicker... the method needs to be able to determine the age of a living person beyond the age of 100 all the way up to 200,300,400 or more years. :p I would settle for it being able to determine up to the age of 150.

That is to say, it should be something analogous to tree rings or sediment layers. Is it possible? (and is there such a technique with demonstrated effectiveness within 10 years accuracy ;) I guess it would have to be tested mostly on dead people beyond the age of 110 or so....)

ashe

[jayh]

the method needs to be able to determine the age of a living person beyond the age of 100 all the way up to 200,300,400 or more years

How would you validate it without sample people of that age?

I don't know were this came from but I doubt VERY MUCH that it makes any sense. Tree rings reliably date because growth changes seasonally, and is retained as the tree ages. There is nothing analogous in the human spine visible in x-rays.

[ashe]

How would you validate it without sample people of that age?

Indeed...


I don't know were this came from but I doubt VERY MUCH that it makes any sense.

Oh... this person I know told me a story about a guru back in India who "several people said was alive when their great grandfather was alive" and "had his spine X-rayed and dated..." Those words were hardly out of his mouth when I immediately said, "What makes you think you can determine a person's age from their spine?"

I didn't actually know whether you could determine age from a spine in some way but I suspected X-ray images wouldn't be particularly useful anyway. They had no answer but were clearly disappointed that I showed so little 'respect' for this man's claims. :(

Tree rings reliably date because growth changes seasonally, and is retained as the tree ages. There is nothing analogous in the human spine visible in x-rays.

My thinking exactly. But I wanted to check if I was missing anything.

ashe

[Schneibster]

The last time I heard anything about anything like this, they were talking about determining the ages of death of people who had died in historical times, and they used a combination of forensics and historical knowledge to figure it out. It wasn't necessarily clear from the skeleton how old they had been when they died; I think, however, that in most cases they were able to piece it together. If your arguing with someone about such things, however, it's probably not solid enough to base an argument on; from what I saw, it was on a case-by-case basis, and very much opinion with a pretty wide margin of error.

[orpheus last chant]

AFAIK, it's really easy to determine the age of someone till they're 18-20 or so, from bones, that is. Teeth come out at certain ages, certain cartilages ossify at specific ages, and so on. After that, they can tell from the pelvis if a woman gave birth, but, the rest, and how the spine might fit into this, I have no idea.

[flintknapper]

Well, one thing the human spine can tell you is there is no such thing as "Intelligent Design". I, like millions of other people, have severe back problems. My spinal malady is called kyphosis, curvature of the spine. As far as evolution, a chicken has a better spine configuration for upright bipedal movement than any human. Sorry I can't help with your question.

[drewjmore]

They did age some dinosaurs using seasonal growth rings through femur cross-sections, but I think the theory says that they just kept growing until they died. X-ray aging of human spines sounds like sci-fi; paleontologists use microscopes and visible light.

http://www.fsu.edu/~unicomm/pages/releases/2004_08/release_2004_08_9a.html

http://www.psjournals.org/paleoonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=0094-8373&volume=25&issue=3&page=295

[thenendo]

I think I remember learning that DNA strands become slightly shorter with each cell replication -- a portion of the so-called "junk" DNA at the tail gets lost each time, or something -- and that this is thought to be highly likely to have something to do with the mechanisms responsible for aging. (Not sure what the status of this theory is -- my chemistry/biology training ended with high school.)

If so, this could be a fairly straightforward way to figure someone's age from a blood sample.