Do you ever wish you did believe?

[manimal2878]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.

[Killer Mike]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.

Im a former fundy. You know raised in a Christain home, went to church every Sunday, the whole 9 yards. Sometimes I get angry that I did believe!
Looking back on those days, I get angry that I really did believe in God, hell, heaven etc.. The emotional turmoil that can be caused by making sure I went to heaven, made me like dumb driven cattle, simply following and living the "faith".

It is such a breath of fresh air, to be able to breath!!!! To be able to think for myself, not having to worry about getting into heaven, and enjoying life free from superstition!! The is a sense of empowerment when one relies on themselves, having confidence in their ability to think clearly, rather then relying on somefairytale god. I am much happier now, and would never want to go back. Im now an atheist for over 10 years and would not change a thing!!!

Give it some time and things will get better!! Its normal to feel the way you do. I know from having gone thru it myself.

[Kraft]

Well, if you mean the Christian God, then no, I don't wish so. Along with the possibility of heaven you have worry over hell, sin, demons/spiritual war, guilt, etc. It's not all happiness.

Do I wish I could continue existing, meet all those I've lost and so on? Definately.

I have come to accept that this is it, and therefore try to enjoy my life. I don't think I exactly delt with it, just kind of went through the 5 stages and eventually accepted it. Try not to see it as waiting until it's over, but enjoying it while you can. As far as hope, set goals, things you want to do/see/accomplish and go after them.

I really don't think believing would cure depression, I've had bouts of depression as a theist and as an atheist and the difference now is that I don't pray, I act.

Maybe someone else will have better advice on how to deal with it...

[Ahriman]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.
It's not like starting to believe in something that you already know isn't true is really an option. I take it then that you somtimes resent the fact that you are an atheist (or according to your profile an agnostic but that's not really a separate category in my book - either belief or disbelief) and wish you could undo the contemplations and conclusions that made you one.

Coming to terms with one's mortality is most of the time a painful and ongoing process. At least I suspect I'm not done with it, yet. I'll get back to you when I'm not as young anymore. :)
Some find solace in the thought that we're part of a huge cosmic circle. When we die our body dissolves and our atoms unite with their environment and become part of life again and wither and are reborn, until even the earth is no more and said atoms make their journey across the stars.
For me, consciousness is more precious then what I'm made up of but I'd rather hope for science to increase my lifespan than subscribe to irrationality and emotional appeals of the religions. I'm also afraid I might mentally implode because of the dimension of absurdity of christianity & co.'s teachings, were I to accept them.

What can make me angry is when a church person shows a complete disrespect for my position. E.g. they try to convince me of their righteousness and demonstrate a total disregard of my feelings and the difficult path that had led me there. They belittle my efforts by pointing at incoherent fairy tales.
Maybe one can envy them for their blissful ignorance but it's like envying a child that is free of worries . Me, I'm too fond of my intellectual liberty and the joy it gives me to want that state of mind for myself.

What's always a good advice is to really live life. Enjoying it. Death loses part of its scare factor when you occupy yourself with the pleasures life has to offer.

[Revolutionary]

I have no desire to believe in religion. I would be interested in an afterlife, if one really existed. But that's it. Life without religion is much better for me.

[dettus]

"Better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy." - Carl Sagan

[Manakin]

Back when I was still a Christian, yeah, I wished I could believe. My deconversion was a slow one... probably took about 5 or 6 years, all told. At first, I just never heard God, and figured I must be doing something wrong. I tried everything I could think of to experience God and His love and all that rot. Never did manage it, and ended up here.

As an atheist, I'm perfectly happy not believing though. Sure, there are some benefits to it, but there are also drawbacks in having to straitjacket your thoughts to somebody else's bits and pieces of 2000-yr old morality. I'll never forgive the church I grew up in for some of the traits I developed that I think are their fault.
</ramble>

-M

[Viti]

It's your depression talking. I am not depressed and so don't feel the futility you do or the need for distraction.

If you believed, you would probably still feel the same way because you are depressed.

[Revolutionary]

I forgot to mention that religion never made me happy. I was always afraid I would die and God would condemn me to eternal torment.

[Barefoot Bree]

When I was a teenager, after I shed the remains of religion like an old worn-out sneaker, I read a lot about ESP, witchcraft, and other mystical stuff. I wanted very badly to believe in that stuff - how neat it would be if that was the "next level" of humanity, and some of us were already peeking in!

But after a while, it dawned on me that whenever I read about an actual case of someone claiming to be there, I was always skeptical. I couldn't bring myself to take them at face value. And so, while I wanted to believe in it, I never really did.

The point is, I don't want to believe in something that isn't true. I want to have knowlege of it, and it actually be the truth.

I would still like to be a mystic, and there actually be more to this life than what we can see. But since I've never seen any evidence of it, it doesn't exist for me, and I can't believe it.

ETA: there are still some good points to religion, namely (for me) the community spirit. The way - in GOOD churches, anyway - the members of the congregation are like one big, extended family, that help each other out and genuinely care about each other. Sadly, this doesn't exist universally. Most churches have at least a large section of back-stabbers and/or apathetic not-really-there types.

And I never could swallow the theology, or the psychological games (guilt trips and induced feelings of worthlessness) that many religions, esp. Christianity, induce.

[Cat59]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is bliss- this rings a real bell for me at the moment- but bear in mind I've only just stopped believing after 30+ years and am finding it hard to deal with. But my experience of other believers as well as myself is that despite believing, many did not have hope and happiness, suggesting that any comfort got from faith was not sufficient to overcome depression. Many believers are on paxil and if you peruse the Christian bookshelf, there are many self help books trying to aid the believer to defeat depression.
But as this life is the only one I now have, instead of trying to make myself assent to something that is untrue, I am trying to devote my energies to overcoming the way I feel. I cannot change the fact that I am mortal, so I just have to adjust.
It's either that or stay like this for the rest of my existence, and that's an option I'm not keen on.

[Brando]

Good topic, right in time for the most depressing point of the year.

I suppose it has only been about a year since I admitted to myself that I am an athiest. College biology had something to do with it. I am 21, and have dropped out of college, where I was academically doing very well at a very good school. I was raised baptist, but I began seeing through it all at a very young age. I was also "saved" at the age of six...that can give you an idea of how long I have been dealing with depression. Religion really lures in the weak.

So, when I secretely wish that I could believe in gawd and be happy like everyone else, it doesnt last for too long. There are SO many people, in my family even, who are very religious and very miserable. Religion just complicates depression, like it complicates everything else in life, which is really quite simple and makes a sickening amount of sense in my opinion(see Darwin).

"God is a thought which makes crooked all that is straight."- Nietzsche

As for "eternal life"- sounds like real hell to me.

Glad I could brighten everyone's holidays!!

[Koiyotnik]

The only thing I resent about the religious are their strong sense of community among those with similar beliefs.

I've tried to believe, before. I could never fool myself into it, and I'm rather relieved that that is the case.

[TransverseWave]

I found deconversion a trial in the beginning, and I used to wish that I could believe. However, believing had its downsides.

Believing that most of humanity was going to Hell was unpleasant. Having to think in particular ways, not being able to follow my thoughts to their logical ends because the Bible said otherwise, was also. And I hated the obligation to evangelize.

I still wish that I believed that my dead pets and family are having a happy afterlife somewhere. But I no longer want to go back to Christianity.

[Straight A]

my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

And what would your life be in heaven ? Would it just be a distraction with no end in sight ?

[Trout]

Well, it would seem to be wonderful to have such all encompassing faith in something so simple that would help make decisions for you, comfort you, etc and explain your place in life and the universe. It is seriously like a drug in many ways.

On the other hand, wishing for bliss and living a real life are two different things. So while it may be nice to imagine living a life like that it is comparable to a drug addict's who also doesn't live in reality.

[EasyTarget]

Sometimes, when my life is reaching new pinacles of suckiness, I kind of wish there really was a god, so I could make the correct sacrifice/burnt offering and have him/her/it/them fix all my problems. But I know there aren't any gods, so I have to just hope the doctors will come up with a cure, eventually.

Um. No, it's not fatal. I can expect to spend another 40-50 years in constant pain, is all. And I'm allergic/med sensitivity to all the pain killers.

[starling]

I don't miss not believing in God, that's just yucky. I do wish I could believe in magic though. In my mind the perfect magic is a more decentralized one, where everybody has it to some degree, where it permeates the very fabric of the universe. God is a kind of magic that is held hostage by a superior being, separate from the universe, one we must fear and obey and can never oppose without turning into the blackest of evil. I don't like magic like that, but magic like you see in other stories where it's a part of everyday life and nobody's in control of it, that would be so wonderful to have. And so terrible not to have. :cry:

[&theworldwillliveas1]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.

HEY, it could be worse......I'm an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac...... So, I lie awake at night and wonder if dogs exist.

Seriously though, I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do. PERIOD. That’s when I get depressed.

When I became convinced that the Universe is natural that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood, the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom ... For the first time, I was free ... I stood erect and joyously faced all worlds. And then my heart was filled with gratitude, with thankfulness, and went out in love to all the heroes, the thinkers who gave their lives for the liberty of hand and brain ... And then I vowed to grasp the torch that they had held, and hold it high, that light might conquer darkness still.

~Robert G. Ingersoll "Why I Am An Agnostic", 1896, quoted in Joseph
Lewis' speech "Ingersoll the Magnificent" (http://jo3services.com/agnosticxmas.htm)

I hope you can overcome what seems to be weighing on you.

[Secular Elation]

I do occasionally have something of a wish that a god existed. Or, more specifically, a god that cared about humanity and would make everything happy in the end for all people, and compensate everyone who have suffered or died young in this life. I know that one of the major stances of many atheists is that since no god will save us, we must save ourselves, and that's a good attitude to have, and one we need to cultivate, since it is the truth. But more often than not when I ponder the condition of human existence I can't help but feel that it is a losing battle. I know we are making progress (or at least trying to make it) in many areas, and who knows, maybe we will make it as a species, but it still seems like we are destined for tragedy.

But since no god, in fact, exists, we can't let the problems of our human lives get us down, and our only choice is to do the best we can is to unite and try to make the world a better place for all, and to fight the indifference of the universe.

[aecrim]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.

There are times when you wish there was a god so you could spit him in his face, you could declare to him that he was drunk when he mad all this ironic existence thing, and inform him that, than spending the afterlife with such a dumb and malevolent creature, you would rather burn forever... And then you realize that you don't believe in it... So all this declarations remain like suspennded brdges, like unfinished revenges...

From this point of view, I wish there was a god.

[Shattered00]

If and when I commit suicide, then I would say that believing in a god would have made me better off. I would, however, rather be in a complete state of hell rather than believe in a god which might give me security and comfort.

[Oxymoron]

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.


Sure, sometimes I wished I believed, in much the same way that I wish I could take heroin or cocaine and suffer no bad consequences financially, physically, emotionally or legally. But I can't; it comes as a package.

Anyway, it's just plain wrong to assume that because they look happy and clappy that's how they are. Most fundies feel threatened by gays, women's rights, evolution, or simply anyone or anything who doesn't validate their worldview. Do you really think that trying to trying to ban the teaching of science in schools or stopping two people who share a loving relationship ensure financial security for their same-sex partner are the actions of people at peace with themselves?

No, the religious live with continual cognitive dissonance - two parts of their brain yelling contradictory messages. They can suppress it temporarily but never permanently. Lessons:

* Even the most devoted believer gets down. It's part of existence.

* For the theist, trying to live up to an unattainable standard must be a thankless, exhausting and mentally draining task.

* Be at peace with yourself. I have a tendency to try to persuade other people of my beliefs because I fear that if I can't then how can they be sustainable? Of course, many people believe for all sorts of reasons and rationality or the sustainability of an argument isn't necessarily one of them.

* Stop beating yourself up (if you do) about X, Y and Z.

* You can suppress things temporarily. Beat up a pillow (seriously: when no-one else is around, punching a pillow shouting "no!" is good therapy). Listen to loud music - it drowns out the mental traffic in your head.

* Find like-minded people and socialise. Here you are on IIDB, good start! The main benefit I can see of being religious is the social gatherings, so seek out those with common interests and sod the god squad.

* For all their silly posturing and self-denial/hatred the religious will end up in a box just like the rest of us. They are wasting their lives bowing to a cartoon-character and following stupid rules.

* Paxil should not be the end for you, it should be the means. It can take you to a place where facing your demons becomes a manageable task. Remember that your demons are largely of your own creation and can, with a bit of work, be deconstructed.

If you can start to acheive some of this then the believers have nothing that you do not.

[manimal2878]

Thanks for all your comments guys.

Not that it matters, but I am not really a deconvertee. I don't think I have ever believed.

Yeah, I see your point I could be sad and depressed and angry just as much if I was a chrisitian, or hindu, or whatever for that matter.

Just feel small and pointless is all and I want to believe in something bigger than myself to give myself a reason to go on is all. I know people say just the joy of being alive and all the beauty, then there are those who say think of how good you do have it. I just don't get it.

I just don't get it at all.

[Morgan le Fay]

If it helps, I often feel the same way about mortality. I am not a deconvertee either, never having the socialization of a Christian environment.

For me, however, its not really about depression. It seems like those who "know" they will see their loved ones after death can never really fear it. I sometimes envy the comfort that brings.

Because we know this is the only life we've got, atheists understand the need to make the most of it. Rather than worry about being small and pointless, why not work to change that? Instead of focusing on the afterlife, I work on making an impact in the "real" world.

[benny]

I have no desire to believe in religion. I would be interested in an afterlife, if one really existed. But that's it. Life without religion is much better for me.

I concur, I think...I am more interested in whther or not I will be able to re-connect with my wife/daughter etc. As far as having organized or, unorganized belief in my life, I do not wish for it at all..though I suppose it would make life easier in some aspects to have many things mapped out for you....

[benjdm]

Do I wish I believed something that isn't true ? No.
Do I wish reality were different ? Yes.

[emphryio]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.
Yes, sometimes I pretend a nice god exists who cares about me. It makes me feel better.

This crap about "you're just depressed" is retarded. A person who isn't happy while living in this world is simply thinking logically. To be happy in this world you have to invent one bit of faulty thinking or another. You have to ignore your impending doom basically(among other things). Belief in a "nice" god is just one of many ways to do so. Some atheists seem to not have this problem due to faulty wiring.

[three4jump]

The obvious answer here is a death-bed conversion! I plan to convert to Buddhism or whatever, where they believe in reincarnation, so I can be reincarnated as a dog.

[Unbeatable]

I do not wish I could believe in any of the big three. Those gods are the most horrific concepts anybody has ever tried to pass off as non-fiction. Fear has controlled too much of my life as it is, and I never even was religious. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been had I seriously believed in concepts like sin and hell.

Just the same, while I would not want to believe in those particular gods, or most other gods of whom I have heard, I still wish there was an external source of meaning/purpose/values in life, because this whole "create your own meaning" thing that other atheists seem to accept so easily does not work for me.

[beavah]

The only time I do want to be able to believe is when I meet a woman that I know I would be a perfect match for yet I know she is a die hard x-tian. Like a girl that I took many classes with in college. She was wonderfully intelligent, we had so much fun together in all of our classes, we always grouped together and spent a lot of time out of class together studying and preparing for presentations and so on. She was also really beautiful and I saw how loving she was, but she was a hardcore Catholic(Roman Catholic even) that always was talking about praying for this and that. I could tell that she would never be able to accept someone who didn't believe in TEH GAWD so I kept the relationship at a friend level cause I knew it would just never work.

Life sucked growing up in a very consertive area

[Alonzo Fyfe]

When I was in the sixth grade, I wanted to believe in God . . . because I was being subjected to a lot of very brutal treatment by my "Christian" classmates. If I believed as they did, they would accept me.

For a very short time (a few days), I pretended that I had seen the light. But, I quickly realized that they were not accepting me. They were accepting a character that I was playing. That was not good enough, so I gave up the game.

Now, I have no such desire. I have no interest in sacrificing the limited time I have alive to serve a fantasy.

I wrote an essay on my blog, The Meaning of Life (http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2005/11/meaning-of-life.html) to explain how I see a religious life as a bit of a waste.

The only way that I would want to believe is if I was believing something that was true.

Alonzo Fyfe (http://www.alonzofyfe.com)
Atheist Ethicist Blog (http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/)

[Bender]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

The brightside is if you're going through something crappy, you can always look forward to the day you cease to exist and nothing can bother you anymore. Thats what I try to do.

[manimal2878]

The only time I do want to be able to believe is when I meet a woman that I know I would be a perfect match for yet I know she is a die hard x-tian. Like a girl that I took many classes with in college. She was wonderfully intelligent, we had so much fun together in all of our classes, we always grouped together and spent a lot of time out of class together studying and preparing for presentations and so on. She was also really beautiful and I saw how loving she was, but she was a hardcore Catholic(Roman Catholic even) that always was talking about praying for this and that. I could tell that she would never be able to accept someone who didn't believe in TEH GAWD so I kept the relationship at a friend level cause I knew it would just never work.

Life sucked growing up in a very consertive area

I know this kind of pain all too well, more than once at that.

[TheHappyAgnostic]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.

Maybe it's not your existential woes that are causing your anger and depression. Maybe it's your angry and depressed mood that are causing your existential woes.

I was diagnosed as Bipolar rapidly cycling about 3 1/2 years ago. My moods swung from manic/hypomanic to depression every three to four days. On manic/hypomanic days, I was euphoric and happy. On depressed days, I felt exhausted and melanchology. In the last half year, the doctors finally found the right medicine for me. My mood is very stable now. During the 3 years that the doctors tried to find a medicine that would stabilize my moods, I finally lost my faith in God. During that time, I had depressed days as a Christian and depressed days as an Atheist. I was just as melancholly on depressed days when I was a Christian as I was when I was an Atheist. I felt the same on manic/hypomanic days regardless of my belief too. I don't know about your depression, but I believe mine was completely chemically induced. I have had few depressed days in the past 6 months, and I'm very happy and satisfied with my worldview. I have had no new insites into the big existential questions in the past 6 months, yet I still feel great and very positive about Atheism. If you're seeing a doctor for depression, I suggest you consider trying the following ideas: 1.) cut back on the existential questions until you feel more positive, 2.) tell your doctor to up your dose or find something that works better for you than Paxil (I'm on Lexapro), 3.) focus your time on your career and/or a hobby and or relationships until the medicine kicks in and you feel more positive about life - this will help pass time in a productive way.

Since I started feeling better, 6 months ago, I also started dealing with my troubled marriage. This was the big hurdle in my life that I couldn't figure out during the three years that I was waiting for the right medicine. By the way, I appreciate all the comments and encouragement that I got from the guys and gals here at the Infidels forum. My marriage has improved considerably in the past few months too. Maybe you will be able to accept/solve your worldview woes better when you feel more positive. :huh:

[manimal2878]

Maybe it's not your existential woes that are causing your anger and depression. Maybe it's your angry and depressed mood that are causing your existential woes.

I was diagnosed as Bipolar rapidly cycling about 3 1/2 years ago. My moods swung from manic/hypomanic to depression every three to four days. On manic/hypomanic days, I was euphoric and happy. On depressed days, I felt exhausted and melanchology. In the last half year, the doctors finally found the right medicine for me. My mood is very stable now. During the 3 years that the doctors tried to find a medicine that would stabilize my moods, I finally lost my faith in God. During that time, I had depressed days as a Christian and depressed days as an Atheist. I was just as melancholly on depressed days when I was a Christian as I was when I was an Atheist. I felt the same on manic/hypomanic days regardless of my belief too. I don't know about your depression, but I believe mine was completely chemically induced. I have had few depressed days in the past 6 months, and I'm very happy and satisfied with my worldview. I have had no new insites into the big existential questions in the past 6 months, yet I still feel great and very positive about Atheism. If you're seeing a doctor for depression, I suggest you consider trying the following ideas: 1.) cut back on the existential questions until you feel more positive, 2.) tell your doctor to up your dose or find something that works better for you than Paxil (I'm on Lexapro), 3.) focus your time on your career and/or a hobby and or relationships until the medicine kicks in and you feel more positive about life - this will help pass time in a productive way.

Since I started feeling better, 6 months ago, I also started dealing with my troubled marriage. This was the big hurdle in my life that I couldn't figure out during the three years that I was waiting for the right medicine. By the way, I appreciate all the comments and encouragement that I got from the guys and gals here at the Infidels forum. My marriage has improved considerably in the past few months too. Maybe you will be able to accept/solve your worldview woes better when you feel more positive. :huh:


Thanks for your time and advice, I appreciate it.

[richard2]

I wish there were a happy afterlife and an all-loving God minus the eternal punishment. That would be nice. I don't think that's the reality, though. But, if he/she/it does exist, he/she/it has a lot of explaining to do.

[blues runner]

I daresay I've sometimes looked at certain fundamentalist types with disdain. Upon those occassions, I enjoy realizing with quiet satisfaction that at least I'm not like them. But, my comfort never lasts long, since there are so damn many of them. I suppose the answer for why there is such an astoundingly high number of individuals who "believe" in something has much to do with their not thinking for themselves, being afraid to "rock the boat", and basically consoling themselves with the knowledge that no matter how bad things get, they can always talk to/take comfort in their superstitious being of choice.

As per the question in the OP, if I ever wished I did believe, no. But then, I have to admit I've been verily vexed at times having seen fundamentalists going at their speaking in tongues sessions, swinging, jumping around screaming "Praise be!" and busting out in uncontrollable laughter, to name a few examples. It's during those moments I think, "Is it really that good?...Looks like these people are tripping balls, drug-free. As I have to pay for my highs, it kind of irks me. But...only a little. I would never wish to trade roles with them. But then, they'd probably say the exact same thing about me.

[Whoracle]

Until about a year ago, the thought had occured to me on occasion, but now that I have a more solid understanding of myself and my views, it hasn't even crossed my mind. Though perhaps what I was hoping for in the first place merely a sense of belonging with my (mostly Christian) peers and not an actual desire to beleive. :huh:

[Ellis]

Originally posted by manimal2878

Just feel small and pointless is all and I want to believe in something bigger than myself to give myself a reason to go on is all. I know people say just the joy of being alive and all the beauty, then there are those who say think of how good you do have it. I just don't get it.


One thing I have realized about being an atheist is that you don't have anyone else telling you what is and isn't important. If you want to devote your life to staring at a speck on your ceiling you can. Of course you probably won't.

Currently you have decided that what's important is that your life will soon be over and you have no meaning. I'm guessing that you think you "should" fixate on that because to do otherwise would be to delude yourself, would be the "wrong" way to view life. Well, your opinion on life is purely subjective, and so long as the objective facts they are based on are accurate, opinions can't really be "wrong." (I don't mean to say, for example, that the fundies who think gay people should not be allowed to marry are right-- they have false objective information, i.e. that gays are "sinful", that gay marriage will destroy straight marriage, etc.) The view you have on life is up to you and if you want to be happy you should adopt a viewpoint that will make you happy.


Originally Posted by TheHappyAgnostic
Maybe it's not your existential woes that are causing your anger and depression. Maybe it's your angry and depressed mood that are causing your existential woes.


Here's another thing. If you are depressed it is most likely not just from this one issue. It's likely you have other problems causing your depression, but you have ignored or dismissed them. Then you use the existential questions to excuse your depression.

I can't think of any advice to give you based on that. You will just have to recognize that your depression is not "rational" or "correct."

Remember, you are in control of your view on life, and of your own actions. True, there are many things you can't control. And yes, you will die someday. But worrying and obsessing over these facts accomplishes nothing.

I've accepted that there is no predetermined purpose for my life. Some people will take that to mean my life is meaningless, and I suppose in a sense it is. But I won't let that keep me from doing what I can to be happy. You can create your own meaning, your own (subjective) truth. You have to find out what's important to you and devote your life to that, to whatever makes you happy. Being happy is not a crime--it can be, and should be, the purpose of life.

--Ellis (I've been there.)

[TheHappyAgnostic]

I won't let that keep me from doing what I can to be happy. You can create your own meaning, your own (subjective) truth. You have to find out what's important to you and devote your life to that, to whatever makes you happy. Being happy is not a crime--it can be, and should be, the purpose of life.
Amen!

There are some good books out there that can help. I recommend "Leaving the Fold" - by Marlene Winell, "The Conquest of Happiness" by Bertrand Russell, "Why Atheism" by George H. Smith, and "The Virtue of Selfishness" by Ayn Rand.

[Jobar]

Does it bother you that the universe existed for billions of years, before you were born into it in blood and pain? You don't remember any of that, so it shouldn't. (Well, as a baby a-borning, it bothered you a lot. But do you recall any of that?)

After you die- in blood and pain, quite possibly- the universe will go on for billions of years more. I expect *that* bothers you, but that's because we can foresee it thanks to our intelligence. Well, I can also foresee being asleep later tonight, but that doesn't mean I have to worry that I'll miss all the things going on while I'm asleep. Hell, I miss an incredible variety of things just sitting here at my keyboard!

While you live, live to the fullest. Carpe that ol' diem! If you don't enjoy your life, you have the ability to seek ways to make it more enjoyable. Obsessing over all the things you'll never do or see won't help; existential angst won't help. Doing all that means that the finite time you have to find happiness is being wasted.

Ellis is right, and happiness is the desideratum of human existence. (Although Socrates beat him to that observation. ;))

Let me quote a few lines from the very first page of Neal Stephenson's NYT bestselling novel Cryptonomicon, which I just finished a couple of days ago.

Like every other creature on the face of the Earth, Godfrey was, by birthright, a stupendous badass, albeit in the somewhat narrow technical sense that he could trace his ancestry back up a long line of slightly less highly evolved stupendous badasses to that first self-replicating gizmo- which, given the number and variety of its descendants, might justifiably be described as the most stupendous badass of all time. Everyone and everything that wasn't a stupendous badass was dead.

We're all nightmarishly lethal, memetically programmed death-machines- but while we're alive, we should live up to that noble heritage, and enjoy it! :D

-Jobar (atheist mystic)

[Seeker630]

Sometimes I get angry that I don't believe in God; my life ends and everything up till then is really just a distraction while I wait to stop existing.

Sometimes I get pissed that people can go around and believe the ridiculous things they do, it is so irrational and stupid seeming. But then I think how they probably have hope and happiness where all i have is depression and paxil.

How do you deal with this I can't be the only one who thinks this. It really makes me think ignorance is bliss.

It's not that I get angry about not believing. I've just gotten numb to the notion that such a thing can exist--let alone that it actually does. I certainly don't believe in any of the god(s) put forth by humans so far in history--they are all obvious fabrications to me.

I'm an atheist--agnostic or negative variety. I don't get depressed over my non-belief. I do sometimes get angry at believers when they try to demean others who don't think like them though. And don't be so sure they have something you don't like happiness or hope. Otherwise why would they need to believe in fairy tales? That they do so may say more about them as individuals than they realize.

[j-ogenes]

Do I wish I believed something that isn't true ? No.
Do I wish reality were different ? Yes.

I want to frame this and put it up on my wall. And since I own a printer, I think I will. Thanks for your very wise aphorism, benjdm

[Storme]

Manimal: Do you ever wish you did believe?
We do. We believe in chance, that the universe and we are accidents; and we know there is no intrinsic meaning, right, wrong, good, or bad—pretty much a license to do whatever. As far as any depression, I’d say that like all the other problems in our lives, it’s just biochemistry. (The SSRI doesn’t seem to be working—maybe you have more a dopamine problem—consider Ritalin.)

OTH, from all the whining I see on these boards, I doubt most here truly have the stomach for atheism and its implications. Not really surprising—innate mechanisms have evolved wiring us humans with the desire and proclivity to find some sort of meaning and purpose in an accidental universe, and history shows that some sort of god or gods is generally the unavoidable consequence for most.

So WTF, if I were as miserable as you seem to be, I’d go with Pascal’s Wager. What’s the downside?—The “intellectual suicide� of an “intellect� that is essentially an illusion anyway, the product of an accident within an accident? And if neither the Wager nor the Ritilin works, I’d suppose that IIDB will still be around; and oblivion is always an option.

[j-ogenes]

pretty much a license to do whatever.
Whoever WE is, I don't believe in this. Most atheists I know are, compared to the population at large, tremendously considerate of the rights and needs of others, and try very hard, usually successfully, to not do things that harm others.

[Storme]

Jog: Whoever WE is, I don't believe in this. Most atheists I know are, compared to the population at large, tremendously considerate of the rights and needs of others,. . .
Well, fundies believe and utter similar sentimentalities regarding their co-fundies. But such altruism is merely genetic self-interest, found in the genome of atheists and theists alike. Nothing wrong with that, but let’s not get too smug regarding commonplace traits that are merely the result of a directionless evolution, and that essentially are nothing more than self-interest.

[Ellis]

Originally posted by j-ogenes

Originally Posted by Storme
pretty much a license to do whatever.

Whoever WE is, I don't believe in this. Most atheists I know are, compared to the population at large, tremendously considerate of the rights and needs of others, and try very hard, usually successfully, to not do things that harm others

I don't think "do whatever" means "ignore ethics." The implied meaning of "do whatever" is "do whatever you want." The implication of "do whatever you want" is that there are reasons to do x other than wanting to do x. This division probably comes from the religious idea that there are two categories of action/desire: 1) what God wants you to do ("good") and 2) what the Devil makes you think you want to do ("evil"). By "do whatever," I assume Storme means an atheist can create his/her own morality separate from the false dichotomy of "if you want to do it it's evil, and if you have no reason to do it it's good."

If a person's actions were not guided by any sort of personal restriction or motivation that person would do nothing. If a person did "whatever (s/he wants)" you might say this would be the exact same way people always act, because you could call any motivation for action "what I want." (Is that another discussion?)

Ellis is right, and happiness is the desideratum of human existence. (Although Socrates beat him to that observation. ;) )

"Her." Just so ya know.

[openeyes]

I don't ever wish that I still believed. Of course, I've been a non-believer for all of my adult life, about 30 years, so I've had lots of time to get used to it. It's probably helped that I didn't go into marriage and child rearing as a believer and then changed mid-course. If anything, I've been glad I haven't had to try to filter life events through a religious lens. (BTW, the marriage didn't work out, he was secretly confused and conflicted, but the child rearing is going pretty well for the most part.)

Do I ever wish humans and the world were simpler so that people could get along better? Once in awhile, but such is the challenge of life, I guess. Wishing the world were different isn't terribly helpful in dealing with it.

[Plognark]

Some of my best friends back in highschool were believers, and up through even my late teens and when I was 20 or 21 I wished I could believe.

Now that I'm a little older and little less stupid, I don't have that same desire anymore. Back then I think it was just a desire to fit in with the rest of the monkeys, in a social context. Be part of the tribe, you know?

[ggd316]

I get angry when I look back and remember when I did believe...But it is hard to be an atheist, harder than it is to follow Jesus sometimes. I live in a christian home, and in a town with 1100 people in it (actually it's 3 towns combined). And there are seriously over 30 churches here. And I am always looked down on for being an atheist, and am constantly being told about hell. But in my heart, but mostly my brain, I know I'm right.

[glyptodon]

Do I wish I believed something that isn't true ? No.
Do I wish reality were different ? Yes.

Well-said... I can't say I just wish to believe in certain things, even if they would be comforting; I would wish, instead, that those things were true.

I do think there is order, meaning, beauty, purpose, etc. in the universe... I don't see why non-existence of the supernatural would mean that there are none of these things. Why would the existence of some powerful, non-material entity be the prerequisite? Why would it not be possible for there to be meaning or beauty without it? I suppose it says a lot about how important religious beliefs are, if we find it difficult to imagine that there could be meaning in its absence.

There is something beyond us, something greater than us, even if it is not God. There is the whole universe, filled with things so vast we can't even fully grasp it. There are billions of years of life history on this planet, and there will be billions more. There are forces and laws that order things. And in contemplating all this, I cease to have much concern for myself. I am so small and everything else is so large, and I am humbled and grateful to live in such an amazing universe. I can feel comforted to know that things will go on without me, that things will continue, that they do not stop for death.

As for order, there are natural laws to things, which are often mysterious and still much in the process of being discovered by us, and there is also the order that we can perceive in things, being, as we are, creatures that like to find patterns.

The beauty and meaning that we can perceive, even if it is subjective and limited, is no less "real" because of that. Why would God's absence take that away? We have lost nothing but an illusion, and gained what really is. The order and beauty we perceived was always there, and still is. If God didn't make it, God's absence cannot take it away. We perceived it in the universe, in existence itself. Our "purpose in life," like that of all creatures, is to live. Beyond that, we can create our own purpose, find order, experience beauty.

I feel that the universe--all that is--is its purpose, its meaning, its beauty. We can appreciate what we've got, or we can get depressed by thinking there isn't more. But there is already so much that is remarkable and beautiful in this world.

Perhaps there is no personal God in the shape of a father watching down on us from the sky. Perhaps there are only the sun and stars, and space and time so vast that to us they seem eternal. And that may seem lonely. But here on Earth, there is not one inch of soil that isn't filled with life. We are mortals, but we are surrounded by companions, in a continuum of life, in a universe that is grander than we can ever comprehend.

[manimal2878]

We do. We believe in chance, that the universe and we are accidents; and we know there is no intrinsic meaning, right, wrong, good, or bad—pretty much a license to do whatever. As far as any depression, I’d say that like all the other problems in our lives, it’s just biochemistry. (The SSRI doesn’t seem to be working—maybe you have more a dopamine problem—consider Ritalin.)

OTH, from all the whining I see on these boards, I doubt most here truly have the stomach for atheism and its implications. Not really surprising—innate mechanisms have evolved wiring us humans with the desire and proclivity to find some sort of meaning and purpose in an accidental universe, and history shows that some sort of god or gods is generally the unavoidable consequence for most.

So WTF, if I were as miserable as you seem to be, I’d go with Pascal’s Wager. What’s the downside?—The “intellectual suicide� of an “intellect� that is essentially an illusion anyway, the product of an accident within an accident? And if neither the Wager nor the Ritilin works, I’d suppose that IIDB will still be around; and oblivion is always an option.



Gee thanks. :(