So, I went to church last Sunday

[Treacle Worshipper]

This is a thing it itself. Three outspoken atheists and two very lax Roman Catholics going to an Anglican charismatic/evangelical church to see our friend get baptised because she'd invited us & we believe in supporting our friends' choices even if we think they're totally nuts (as long as they're not doing anything out-&-out dangerous and other similar caveats).

This was a church I attended briefly a while before I deconverted (I left because I don't really get on with the happy-clappy stuff) & I was interested to see what they were doing now, as well as mildly ambivalent about being recognised & jumped on. Anyway, I've been thinking about it all week. You know what really struck me?

How utterly lacking in all artistic merit those bloody modern worship songs are!!! They had a half-hour sing-a-long before the service proper began (I presume so as not to embarrass those who couldn't get out of bed in time for the 10 o'clock start), so there was plenty of time to soak up the atmosphere - several hundred people repeating "holy, holy, holy" and waving their arms in the air. The lyrics were dire: either ripped straight from the psalms (or some other convenient book) or completely inane. Eg:

"L" is his love for me
"I" am the reason he died on the tree
"F" is forgiveness and now I am free
"E" [something about eternity]

[vomiting smiley]

And the music? Yuk! No better than the words.

Y'know, there's a whole long list of reasons for not going back to church and I just added another one to it.

TW

ps. Nobody recognised me. Thank the IPU!

[Stacey Melissa]

I think they sing that song at the church I sometimes go to. My friends at that church love singing along with that totally shitty music. "<Barf>" is right.

[Don Alhambra]

Heh, I feel for you: I went to a carol service last night. I love singing, but we had to sit through the religious crap too. The church choir wasn't very good (though a friend of mine was in it) and some of the stuff they sang was pretty sickly sweet.

Since I was brought up a vague Catholic and this was a Baptist church however it was interesting to see the differences. Oh, and the church had a big sign outside saying: JESUS IS COMING - LOOK BUSY. :D

[fließendes]

Having grown up in a southern Pentecostal church (How many syllables are there in G-O-D?) I've heard my share of bad music. The black Pentecostal churches have historically had much better music, but even they aren't what they once were.

My sister attends a supposedly non-denominational "mega-Church" where they have Las Vegas caliber stagecraft and play horrible, horrible "Christian" rock music. Totally derivative and always sung with a vomit-inducing, one-note earnestness.

I'm afraid people are trying so hard not to offend God that artistic innovation is pretty difficult to achieve. Maybe they figure God will make up for their artistic blandness. As every good Christian knows, devotion is more important than creativity.

[Palpatine]

Since I stopped going to my church, they've gotten this terrible "rock" band to play during services, and they hardly play the old stuff anymore. It's nothing like these megachurches I've heard about, but it's certainly heading that way. Honestly, I'd rather take the dated hymns over Christian rock anyday.

[Cat59]

I've played guitar in church for (shuts eyes and calculates) 34 years. Fashions have come and gone but a lot of it is mostly awful. Certain hymns I would dread playing, one called "Shine, Jesus Shine" which seems to be everyone elses favourite springs to mind. "He is exalted" another (which my son2 misinterpreted as "He is exhausted" and wanted to know why god was so tired.) I think few people would nowadays continue to go to churches like this for the aesthetic value of the service.

[Agemegos]

And the music? Yuk! No better than the words.

Now that we have copyright laws, the equivalents of Bach and Handel can make money out of selling music, and don't have to pander for commissions from the Church.

[Treacle Worshipper]

JESUS IS COMING - LOOK BUSY. :D
Oh, the irony! :D

I'm afraid people are trying so hard not to offend God that artistic innovation is pretty difficult to achieve. Maybe they figure God will make up for their artistic blandness. As every good Christian knows, devotion is more important than creativity.
Hmm. Surely god would be far more offended by the dire quality of what now passes as 'singing his praises' than by any artistic innovation?

IMO, Christian rock is an oxymoron.

I've played guitar in church for (shuts eyes and calculates) 34 years. Fashions have come and gone but a lot of it is mostly awful.
Yes, I noticed that only a couple of the songs were ones I recognised from 5/6 years ago. And one of those was "When I survey the wondrous cross", which is long-lasting, making an appearance in Hymns Pre-Historic & Ancient.

Certain hymns I would dread playing, one called "Shine, Jesus Shine" which seems to be everyone elses favourite springs to mind.
I quite liked that when I was about 12. Hearing it played by an 80-year-old half-deaf organist is something, tho'.

"He is exalted" another (which my son2 misinterpreted as "He is exhausted" and wanted to know why god was so tired.)
It's all that burying dinosaur fossils to mislead people :D

I think few people would nowadays continue to go to churches like this for the aesthetic value of the service.
I have to agree with you there. Some of the old church music is truly beautiful, and a lot of hymns are well-written, even if you don't agree with the sentiment. Very much unlike most of what's being produced today.

Now that we have copyright laws, the equivalents of Bach and Handel can make money out of selling music, and don't have to pander for commissions from the Church.
I think you have a very good point there. I hadn't considered that angle. Thanks.

TW

[Trout]

Yeah, I remember those inane songs. They were pretty bad even as a kid but now.....

1. HEY HEY WE'RE NOT MONKEYS
(Hey Hey We're the Monkees, The Monkees)

1. Here we come
Out of history
Familiar names like Noah
And Adam and Eve

Hey! Hey! We're not monkeys!
Never drank primordial soup!
We're the folks God created
Not an evolutional fluke!

2. Lots of folks think we're fiction
Stories told in caves
By descendants of lizards
With mutated brain waves

We're just trying to inform you
Help you tell the false from the true
'Cause truth is not naturally selected
By folks with a Utopian view

(Repeat verse 1)

Hey! Hey! We're not monkeys!
We're beings fashioned out of the mud
Created by God in His image
Not creatures that chew the cud.

http://cargo.ship-of-fools.com/Features01/NedNight/Hymn1.html

[Treacle Worshipper]

http://cargo.ship-of-fools.com/Features01/NedNight/Hymn1.html
:D I really liked The Monkees tv programme when I was a kid.

We're beings fashioned out of the mud
I've always wanted to meet someone who genuinely believed this so I could ask them: Why is it better?

TW

[fließendes]

For some good takes on gospel music I recommend Aretha, Mavis Staples, Johnny Cash, or Elvis (in some instances). I'm sure there are some good British gospel singers, but I don't know any. I don't think Dusty Springfield singing "Son of a Preacher Man" would go over all that well with the devout crowd.

Mavis Staples is well-known for saying "The devil don't have no music. All music is God's music". Someone who saw her in concert recently told me she talked about how when she was young and the Staples Singers were starting out she didn't want to play in night clubs, 'cause her idol Mahalia Jackson wouldn't sing in "Godless, secular" establishments. Her father, "Papa" Staples, would say, "Mavis. Baby. These people have never been to church. We're going to bring the church to them.". (Then there was the time she told him she wanted to quit the group and be a nurse. "Mavis. Baby. You can nurse people from the stage.").

I've been listening to American IV (http://www.johnnycash.com/songclips/songclips.htm) (Cash) a lot lately. "The Man Comes Around" (http://www.universalstudios.com/cgi-bin/ramscript.cgi?store/Nashville/losthighway/440063339/440063339_0101_7.ra) is pretty cool, especially with Johnny reading from Revelations 6 at the opening: "and behold a white horse...". He was a devout Christian and at the end of his life, so almost everything on that album has a religious feel to it. Even "Bridge Over Troubled Water" (http://www.universalstudios.com/cgi-bin/ramscript.cgi?store/Nashville/losthighway/440063339/440063339_0104_7.ra) (with Fiona Apple, really beautiful) has a gospely feel to it.

Of course Johnny Cash was a product of share-cropping and Nashville debauchery :worried: before he became devout. (It's apparently religion and June that got him off barbituates). Black music is of course rooted in a lot more than religion. Outside of gregorian chants, I wonder how much music really is wholly the product of religion?

[Don Alhambra]

I wonder how much music really is wholly the product of religion?
About 95% of choral music, it woudl appear. :huh:

[Jennie]

I've always liked Morning Has Broken.