Religious Conversion - In a Favorite Cartoon

[starling]

There was a thread here recently asking if any atheists converted to Christianity here, and if so, how? Well a favorite comic strip of mine gave a really good example of that. I can see this happening in real life, even to someone not so different from myself. As the religious say, there but for the grace of God go I...

http://untitled.comicgen.com/d/20051222.html

What do you think? How would you save her from giving in like that? (You know, assuming you were talking to her after the sermon, and she was a real person instead of a fictional bipedal rat.)

Note, in her universe there really is a God, (or at least Satan's showed up once) so I'm just curious how this scene would apply in real life.

[Aria]

This is the kind of thing that draws a lot of people in. Religion preys upon weakness, unhappiness. Wouldn't it be just plain better if there were something out there looking out for you? Isn't it comforting to believe that you will be eternally happy after you die?

It's hard to resist, because we want so much for it to be true. Alas, it isn't. It's all lies. Lies which are easily verified as lies, passed down (ever changing) from man to man, century after century, used to control and manipulate the masses. No King has ever remained so without religion. Keep that in mind.

[Revolutionary]

She apparently starting believing because she wanted to believe. There is no reasoning here at all.

[JaredM]

There are parts of all religions which are beautiful, inspiring, and emotionally moving. There are also parts which are ugly, hateful, and emotionally revolting. Give 'em milk before meat, as they say...

--Jared

[Aria]

^^ That's why I am an atheist. I get to pick and choose which philosophies I follow, and I only follow the beautiful ones. I don't let ugliness prey upon my worldview, only reality.

[JaredM]

The cartoon forgot to mention that if you don't believe in this stuff, Yahweh will torture you in Hell for all eternity, and that only the believers will go to Heaven, where they will have to spend all of eternity kissing His Holy Heiney. Kind of sucks all the beauty right out of the fairy tale, doesn't it?

--Jared

[starling]

Yes, I'm aware of most of these points. The cartoon was most certainly not reality. How to help her, or someone like her though, still hasn't been addressed.

What I would do is ask her if what she wants to believe is the same as what they say is true. That is, is there something else she'd rather believe in? Something more true than anything written in a book? It seems her decision was more based on inner resolve than obedience, and I respect stuff like that. Ultimately though, people in her situation can rest easy once they realize that they can believe and hope and wish for something, and it won't be this God of Compromises every church seems to profess.

How about tell her a story of a God who loves and receives anyone who approaches life honestly, and doesn't pretend they know about a god they can't perceive. One who doesn't judge people by what they said, or what man they decided to devote their life to, whether Jesus Christ or Jimmy Hoffa. One who doesn't punish sinners in Hell for eternity, but instead gives them another chance, or the help they need to become good people. One who is not all powerful, who makes mistakes but earnestly tries hard, and that explains why the world isn't perfect or paradise. Why the god of the Bible, and not this one? Why just one?

So... that's what I'd tell her. Anyone else want to say how they would extend their compassion to one so glibely and slyly converted to uncompromising religion?

[espritch]

It seems her decision was more based on inner resolve than obedience, and I respect stuff like that.

Resolving to believe something you have no evidence for just because you would like for it to be true, is not, to my mind, a respectable position. It is intellectual laziness.

How about tell her a story of a God who loves and receives anyone who approaches life honestly, and doesn't pretend they know about a god they can't perceive. One who doesn't judge people by what they said, or what man they decided to devote their life to, whether Jesus Christ or Jimmy Hoffa. One who doesn't punish sinners in Hell for eternity, but instead gives them another chance, or the help they need to become good people. One who is not all powerful, who makes mistakes but earnestly tries hard, and that explains why the world isn't perfect or paradise. Why the god of the Bible, and not this one? Why just one?

Why not tell her not to just believe in stuff. Why not tell her to question her assumptions and try to determine why she believes and whether her reasons for believing are really good ones? Why define some fantasy God just so she can replace one set of baseless beliefs with another?

[starling]

Why not tell her not to just believe in stuff. Why not tell her to question her assumptions and try to determine why she believes and whether her reasons for believing are really good ones? Why define some fantasy God just so she can replace one set of baseless beliefs with another?Because that still doesn't address her question of, "Why do I want to believe in these myths?" You could tell her that the reason is she's the product of a controlled breeding program that used holy wars to make her species more prone to worshipping God, but that probably won't help. I mean, you could tell her that she was deliberately placed lower in height than the pastor to make him seem more authoritative, and that he was trained to speak in tones that subconsciously lure her into thinking that he knows what he's talking about. Cognitive dissonance, mass psychology, that's the sort of thing I would expect from a "just don't believe in it!" argument. It's not as simple as just not believing for many people.

[fatpie42]

Resolving to believe something you have no evidence for just because you would like for it to be true, is not, to my mind, a respectable position. It is intellectual laziness.


Like believing in 'free will' then?

[fatpie42]

Hey if anyone hasn't seen this, I think this is a really cool cartoon dealing with religion. (God is portrayed as expressing himself with hand-puppets from behind the clouds)

http://sinfest.net/d/20000124.html

http://sinfest.net/d/20000211.html

[emphryio]

I'd tell her if she really needs to believe in something, that's fine. But christianity is retarded and full of hate. Just believe in some kind of deism instead, and please never forget that your belief has absolutely nothing to do with logic.