What's the most important question in life?

[TheMathGuy]

In some ways I realize this is one of those eternal questions that we might never answer. It's also amusing to me to consider that the question itself might be it's own answer!:funny: No, actually that's damned annoying!:banghead:

But putting the inherent problems with the question aside, I'm curious what people think about this one. When I began questioning my faith, I wanted answers. But as I've progressed in this journey I've come to realize certain questions probably aren't answerable, and even if I do find answers it does me no good if I'm asking the wrong questions. I already know the "answer" is 42, but that doesn't really help me! So I want to begin by asking myself "What are the questions I should be asking?" If you were to ask me a decade ago what the most important question in life was I would have probably answered something along the lines of "If you died this very moment, where would your soul be spending eternity?" A question that relies on so many presuppositions that many of the world's population don't even accept seems like a pretty lousy universal question to me. For a while I thought it might be something along the lines of "Does God exist?", but somehow that too entails too much. What do you mean 'God'? For that matter what do you mean by 'exists'? Must it be in a physical sense? The question is almost too vague to even be meaningful.

So I present this question to those who are interested: "What is/are the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?":huh:

[Blu]

Choice One (I might have more later):
The most important question a human being can ask:

"How do I as a human being utilize my life in the best way possible in order to continue to evolve energetically and thus benefit the whole energetic system of humanity in its collective evolution?

[EricK]

For most of history, and still in some parts of the World, it has been "Where is my next meal coming from?"

[RexT]

"What is/are the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?"
You may as well go back to asking about god, for any question you ask, if you follow it through as far as you can, it will prove to be just as involved and complex as the god question, in fact is the god question in another form.

I think that there as many paths to enlightenment as there are questions, and each one leads eventually to the same final answer.

Rex

[blues runner]

The most important question to ask in life is whatever you want it to be. It sounds trite, but it's true.

Once again, it's down to subjectivity.

[wordy]

Sustainability! How do we see to it that the Chimps and other big apes survive. Al lthe other animals too. How do we se to it that coming generations have a beter quality of life than we have now. We are responsible for coming generations. the sad fact is that supporters of a greener planet get too desperate and become violent in their animal rights activities and they become a part of the problem instead of part of the solutions.

[Thomas II]

In some ways I realize this is one of those eternal questions that we might never answer. It's also amusing to me to consider that the question itself might be it's own answer!:funny: No, actually that's damned annoying!:banghead:

But putting the inherent problems with the question aside, I'm curious what people think about this one. When I began questioning my faith, I wanted answers. But as I've progressed in this journey I've come to realize certain questions probably aren't answerable, and even if I do find answers it does me no good if I'm asking the wrong questions. I already know the "answer" is 42, but that doesn't really help me! So I want to begin by asking myself "What are the questions I should be asking?" If you were to ask me a decade ago what the most important question in life was I would have probably answered something along the lines of "If you died this very moment, where would your soul be spending eternity?" A question that relies on so many presuppositions that many of the world's population don't even accept seems like a pretty lousy universal question to me. For a while I thought it might be something along the lines of "Does God exist?", but somehow that too entails too much. What do you mean 'God'? For that matter what do you mean by 'exists'? Must it be in a physical sense? The question is almost too vague to even be meaningful.

So I present this question to those who are interested: "What is/are the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?":huh:

This is such a relative question...
It would be any question that would save a life or lives.

[untermensche]

I agree with Camus on this.

The first question for the living philosopher is: Is life worth living?

That has to be answered first.

[vfr]

All of the preceding replies offered useful questions that one could ask to help guide a life in the right direction. I am glad you modified you original title to include 'is / are' since a balanced approach to life is most important for it to flourish. Just as there is no one acid that does it all when it comes to testing materials for their true nature - we need a variety of 'acidic questions' to get the job done.

Many people seem to think in terms of black and white only and end up seeing tunnel vision. It has been said that a wooden Buddha will not get through a fire, a clay Buddha will not get through the ocean, a bronze Buddha will not get though a furnace. But, a clay Buddha can get through the furnace and turn to stone, a wooden Buddha can float across a river and a bronze Buddha will withstand a fire.

I would only add that asking if your actions promote inner peace or destroy inner peace is an important question for me. This also includes taking into account the inner peace not only of myself but that of others. I do not wish to portray myself as a saint. I sometimes destroy others peace as well as my own, but at least I am aware of when I do it, as opposed to those that seem oblivious of that fact.




V (Male) For free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion or belief of any group or organization.

[vfr]

I agree with Camus on this.

The first question for the living philosopher is: Is life worth living?

That has to be answered first.


I once heard a lecture by Alan Watts where he quoted Anton Van Leeuwenhoek ( The father of the microscope) regarding this subject as; "The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."



V

[untermensche]

I once heard a lecture by Alan Watts where he quoted Anton Van Leeuwenhoek ( The father of the microscope) regarding this subject as; "The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced."



V
The marvel of existence, the ability to see things new every now and then, is definitely one thing that could make life worth living.

Many people lose that. For them, perhaps they would be better off dead.

Let them discuss that next great stock opportunity in hell.

[Thomas II]

I agree with Camus on this.

The first question for the living philosopher is: Is life worth living?

That has to be answered first.

:) For the living philosopher? As opposed to the dead philosopher?

While I would agree with your question "Is life worth living?", this would be hard to answer while one is starving, or if a bear is chasing you to eat you alive...At that point I would bet you would not be asking yourself if life is worth living, but how would you kill the bear or at least distract the bear from killing you...

[untermensche]

:) For the living philosopher? As opposed to the dead philosopher?

While I would agree with your question "Is life worth living?", this would be hard to answer while one is starving, or if a bear is chasing you to eat you alive...At that point I would bet you would not be asking yourself if life is worth living, but how would you kill the bear or at least distract the bear from killing you...
Meaning of course that every philosopher is also a living thing.

There are times when the answer will be no. Maybe in reality every answer is no. It's up to the philospher to answer this first, otherwise why bother answering anything else?

[Ojuice5001]

:) For the living philosopher? As opposed to the dead philosopher?

While I would agree with your question "Is life worth living?", this would be hard to answer while one is starving, or if a bear is chasing you to eat you alive...At that point I would bet you would not be asking yourself if life is worth living, but how would you kill the bear or at least distract the bear from killing you...

On the contrary. If a bear is chasing you, it becomes very easy to answer that question: You're sure the answer is yes. The reason you're so preoccupied with keeping the bear from being killed is that you're sure that it would be bad if the bear killed you; or in other words that your life is worth preserving, and ipso facto worth living. As Samuel Johnson put it, "I know of no thought that so wonderfully clarifies the mind as the thought that I shall hang tomorrow morning."

So it's not hard to answer the question of whether you should save yourself from being mauled by a bear, it's only hard to answer it in the negative. Of course, this doesn't prove that life really is worth living. After all, a lot of people find it hard to disbelieve in God and heaven in those same life-or-death situations, but that's not a proof that God and heaven exist. (And yes, I've heard the famous joke about the atheist being chased by a bear. ;))

So it may be true that Camus' question is the most important one there is. Still, you really have to assume the answer is yes, because otherwise nothing else matters. The assumption is so axiomatic that without it, you would have a considerably lower chance of surviving an encounter with an angry bear.:cool:

[TheMathGuy]

So it may be true that Camus' question is the most important one there is. Still, you really have to assume the answer is yes, because otherwise nothing else matters. The assumption is so axiomatic that without it, you would have a considerably lower chance of surviving an encounter with an angry bear.:cool:

Agreed. I take the worth of living as a basic axiom, otherwise I would not be alive and talking to you now. Of course if there are extenuating circumstances (such as I am in extreme pain and about to die anyway), I may be forced to reconsider!

[Blu]

The most important question to ask in life is whatever you want it to be. It sounds trite, but it's true.

Once again, it's down to subjectivity.


What wrong with that?

[Blu]

This is such a relative question...
It would be any question that would save a life or lives.


What is your relative answer?

[comiezapr]

There is no most impotant question in life for me. A general inquiry into the world is all thats important, the questions arise and get answered as you go along in your studies. At least in my experience, there has never been a time where my focus has stayed the same for more than a year or two. (Though i hate history, sociology, literary theory and continental philosophy.)

There are two questions that interest me more than any others currently.

One question that has always bothered me is how to charachterize the truth predicate in natural language. Tarski's stuff is definetly wrong. Kripke's stuff is on the right track but i also think its wrong. I dont know what to think here and so i think about it alot.

The other question is a more general question: what is the structure of inquiry and how does it apply to academic science. I dont really know how inquiry into the world is structured though i have a good feeling that possible worlds semantics holds the key. But even so, i dont understand, to my satisfaction, the relation between language, the world, perception and thought and so cant really get straight on the more abstract horn of the dillema related to academic science. This has been my major motivation to persue philosophy for quite a while now.

I cant really empathize with the questions related to religion. I think every religion is so wrong and so worthless i dont even bother thinking about it. I shed christianity as a teenager and can no longer imagine how people can believe any religion at all. Im not militant, i just think its retarded.

[kennethamy]

There is no most impotant question in life for me. A general inquiry into the world is all thats important, the questions arise and get answered as you go along in your studies. At least in my experience, there has never been a time where my focus has stayed the same for more than a year or two. (Though i hate history, sociology, literary theory and continental philosophy.)

There are two questions that interest me more than any others currently.

One question that has always bothered me is how to charachterize the truth predicate in natural language. Tarski's stuff is definetly wrong. Kripke's stuff is on the right track but i also think its wrong. I dont know what to think here and so i think about it alot.

The other question is a more general question: what is the structure of inquiry and how does it apply to academic science. I dont really know how inquiry into the world is structured though i have a good feeling that possible worlds semantics holds the key. But even so, i dont understand, to my satisfaction, the relation between language, the world, perception and thought and so cant really get straight on the more abstract horn of the dillema related to academic science. This has been my major motivation to persue philosophy for quite a while now.

I cant really empathize with the questions related to religion. I think every religion is so wrong and so worthless i dont even bother thinking about it. I shed christianity as a teenager and can no longer imagine how people can believe any religion at all. Im not militant, i just think its retarded.


I would have thought that your reply is (perhaps) an answer to the question, "what are the most important philosophical questions?" but hardly, "what are the most important questions of life?", unless you identify philosophy with life. G.E. Moore reported that he once dreamt that a chair was a proposition, but you go him one better.

[untermensche]

Agreed. I take the worth of living as a basic axiom, otherwise I would not be alive and talking to you now. Of course if there are extenuating circumstances (such as I am in extreme pain and about to die anyway), I may be forced to reconsider!
But the worth of living is not a given.

Who has given it this worth?

And being alive could simply be a sign of not thinking life is worth living, but not doing anything about that.

[blues runner]

What's wrong with that?
Nothing of course.

What makes you think there's anything wrong here?

[curbyIII]

So I present this question to those who are interested: "What is/are the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?":huh:

The most important question in life: "What do you want?"
The second most important question in life: "How can you get it?"

[Breath]

So I present this question to those who are interested: "What is/are the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?":huh:

What would happen if I stopped asking questions?

[sweetiepie]

where best to find love?

(ya'll need some hearts)

[sweetiepie]

the answer is "what is the most important question in life?"

[EricK]

the answer is "what is the most important question in life?"

You are on the right track. I think it would have to be "what is the second most important question in life?"

[Black Badger]

"Where's my lunch?"

(Tongue only somewhat in cheek.)

[Zap]

I would only add that asking if your actions promote inner peace or destroy inner peace is an important question for me. This also includes taking into account the inner peace not only of myself but that of others. I do not wish to portray myself as a saint....

Yes, I think inner peace is a big one and hoping that for all.

I hope I am not breaking the rules too much by asking more than one question but I believe there is a set of interellated questions about our existence that are most important to me and others aware of what I am aware of. But I guess they can be treated one and the same question. I will get to the question after my explanation of how and why I came to the question(s).

First off, I am not the greatest person, nor do I have the greatest history, but overall I consider myself an ethical and empathetic person who is innocent. Before I share the hypothesis, I must admit that I have fears. Many people do not admit this, but everyone has them. I also admit I have strong fears. Many will also not admit this. But there, I admitted it. (But just know that I am definetly fighting the 'demons' with more strength than ever). One thinker (I forget who) stated that 'there exists fears for men under the light of day that are far worse than a child's fears of what lurks in the darkness'.

In addition, I would also like to say that it is possible for me and other innocent people to be subjected to harsh cruelty and suffering. Therefore here is what I currently believe is the most important twofold question to ask at this moment my timeline of existence:

"Why do I, and other innocent people have fears, like fear of suffering a type of death that is harsh, or suffering, or fear about this happening to others in general? Why have I gone through any of the suffering I have been through, and why am I subject (as we all are) to possibly experiencing the worst of all sufferings, as there is no guarantee to freedom and security from this that I am aware of in life. What have I possibly done to deserve to come to be born to such a state, with such fears existing. (As far as fear of death, I am not really affected by it, but sometimes it creeps in). I have done nothing to deserve this possible suffering that could come onto me, and nothing to deserve experiencing such unwanted fear. Same goes for other innocent people. I ask a simple why?"

Examples of cold and nihlistic answers to my post I expect to see might go somewhat like: "the universe and the nature of evolution is a cruel thing, so live with it, end of discussion". But surely these replies do not have a satisfactory grounding in reason since things don't happen without something causing them to happen. A larger consequence of larger scope (like being subject to the possibility of extreme terror) absolutely must have a larger cause. How can any one accept weak blanket arguments (like all the answers coming from biological evolution) - arguments that come from a position that seems to me to fail to admit that there is much about the universe we don't know. True science even admits it knows only a grain of salt in a much vaster beach of grains than we are aware of.

So why the fear and why the suffering? I've done stupid things as a child and hurt others, but I didn't realize what I was doing. But overall I am a good person who is innocent and does not deserve such exposure. Then my question surely demands a satisfactory answer.

But then, we innocent might not be as innocent as we think - we must have done something to deserve this. I will argue something pretty bold since the cold argument about the 'cruel nature of the universe' is unsatisfactory and has no sufficient reasoning to provide any answer (since things do not happen without a reason... everything that occurs, occurs for the reason that it was caused by something).

With that said, what else am I to think other than that I (and other innocents who are equally subjected to such fears and possibilities of extreme sufferings in the same boat together) must have done something so gratuitously callous and evil in some other past existence to pretty much place ourselves in this situation -- even though I can't concieve of myself to have ever been cruel, (I am one who cannot possibly ever wish any harm on any being). But there is no other thing I can think of. (I am willing to revise this tentative conclusion if someone has better data for me that fit the facts more accurately.)

So the time has come for a sufficient answer to this important question that will match the punishment. Criminals are at least told by justice why they go where they deserve. Even criminals have that right. Otherwise, with no forthcoming answer from the very intelligent people in here, I (and others in the same boat who are unsatisfied with an unfounded blanket evolutionary reply; who would like to search deep into this far more curious matter than traditional scientific replies that do us no justice) -- we have no right to be subjected to what has been shared -- and in that case -- who's gonna join my beef against the apparent negation of a 100% deserved freedom (and I guess the other question is how will we end it? [Other than suggesting mass suicide -- which is not ideal]).

What has made the innocents deserve this? I mean, simply saying 'there is no reason other than the harsh fact that I evolved this way' -- just does not cut it... it does not balance logically at all on the teetertotter. Theremust logically be a much greater and more equalized cause -- something that I have no other guess about other than my closest guess I can think of -- that I must have been the perpetrator of someting awful in a past time - same goes for all of us who think we are innocent.

[Berthold]

Due to which laws and processes have we arisen?

From which follows:

What can we reasonably expect of being able to know and do?

[primitivefuture]

"Will God forgive me?"

[makebate dags]

So I present this question to those who are interested: "What is/are the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?":huh:

Well here and now in life I'd say the most important question would be;

Does doing this matter towards what I want to do with my life?

This being of course whatever it is that your doing.(including this)

----------------------

Just randomly lots of questions come to mind I think are important for folks
to consider important so maybe without all the question marks but just for
consideration.

consider who you are
consider what your situation is
consider why you do what you do
consider how you came to be you
consider where you want to be
consider what you want to be
consider how to get to that point

Then go to work on it.

If you've done this then your on track and if not then maybe
consider it. Also consider that it's good to put some time aside
to play and enjoy life too not always working.

----------------------------------

When and if I get to feeling down I always think about people
that have lives full of money, sex and drugs. Yet in all of that
can't even appreciate fully how real life is; they are clouded
in their self-delusions. So am I. It's great. Few aren't and most
of them far as I can tell are sad.

-----------------------------------

Something like that or not. Like someone or somewhere it's said

"You just have to make up your own damn mind"

[RexT]

Yes, I think inner peace is a big one and hoping that for all.

I hope I am not breaking the rules too much by asking more than one question but I believe there is a set of interellated questions about our existence that are most important to me and others aware of what I am aware of. But I guess they can be treated one and the same question. I will get to the question after my explanation of how and why I came to the question(s).

First off, I am not the greatest person, nor do I have the greatest history, but overall I consider myself an ethical and empathetic person who is innocent. Before I share the hypothesis, I must admit that I have fears. Many people do not admit this, but everyone has them. I also admit I have strong fears. Many will also not admit this. But there, I admitted it. (But just know that I am definetly fighting the 'demons' with more strength than ever). One thinker (I forget who) stated that 'there exists fears for men under the light of day that are far worse than a child's fears of what lurks in the darkness'.

In addition, I would also like to say that it is possible for me and other innocent people to be subjected to harsh cruelty and suffering. Therefore here is what I currently believe is the most important twofold question to ask at this moment my timeline of existence:

"Why do I, and other innocent people have fears, like fear of suffering a type of death that is harsh, or suffering, or fear about this happening to others in general? Why have I gone through any of the suffering I have been through, and why am I subject (as we all are) to possibly experiencing the worst of all sufferings, as there is no guarantee to freedom and security from this that I am aware of in life. What have I possibly done to deserve to come to be born to such a state, with such fears existing. (As far as fear of death, I am not really affected by it, but sometimes it creeps in). I have done nothing to deserve this possible suffering that could come onto me, and nothing to deserve experiencing such unwanted fear. Same goes for other innocent people. I ask a simple why?"

Examples of cold and nihlistic answers to my post I expect to see might go somewhat like: "the universe and the nature of evolution is a cruel thing, so live with it, end of discussion". But surely these replies do not have a satisfactory grounding in reason since things don't happen without something causing them to happen. A larger consequence of larger scope (like being subject to the possibility of extreme terror) absolutely must have a larger cause. How can any one accept weak blanket arguments (like all the answers coming from biological evolution) - arguments that come from a position that seems to me to fail to admit that there is much about the universe we don't know. True science even admits it knows only a grain of salt in a much vaster beach of grains than we are aware of.

So why the fear and why the suffering? I've done stupid things as a child and hurt others, but I didn't realize what I was doing. But overall I am a good person who is innocent and does not deserve such exposure. Then my question surely demands a satisfactory answer.

But then, we innocent might not be as innocent as we think - we must have done something to deserve this. I will argue something pretty bold since the cold argument about the 'cruel nature of the universe' is unsatisfactory and has no sufficient reasoning to provide any answer (since things do not happen without a reason... everything that occurs, occurs for the reason that it was caused by something).

With that said, what else am I to think other than that I (and other innocents who are equally subjected to such fears and possibilities of extreme sufferings in the same boat together) must have done something so gratuitously callous and evil in some other past existence to pretty much place ourselves in this situation -- even though I can't concieve of myself to have ever been cruel, (I am one who cannot possibly ever wish any harm on any being). But there is no other thing I can think of. (I am willing to revise this tentative conclusion if someone has better data for me that fit the facts more accurately.)

So the time has come for a sufficient answer to this important question that will match the punishment. Criminals are at least told by justice why they go where they deserve. Even criminals have that right. Otherwise, with no forthcoming answer from the very intelligent people in here, I (and others in the same boat who are unsatisfied with an unfounded blanket evolutionary reply; who would like to search deep into this far more curious matter than traditional scientific replies that do us no justice) -- we have no right to be subjected to what has been shared -- and in that case -- who's gonna join my beef against the apparent negation of a 100% deserved freedom (and I guess the other question is how will we end it? [Other than suggesting mass suicide -- which is not ideal]).

What has made the innocents deserve this? I mean, simply saying 'there is no reason other than the harsh fact that I evolved this way' -- just does not cut it... it does not balance logically at all on the teetertotter. Theremust logically be a much greater and more equalized cause -- something that I have no other guess about other than my closest guess I can think of -- that I must have been the perpetrator of someting awful in a past time - same goes for all of us who think we are innocent.
Interesting post.

Let me begin by saying that, since I do not know you, I will accept at face value your claim to be innocent, unlikely as it may be that you really are innocent. Now, if I understand you, you ask why you must fear and suffer.

My answer may not satisfy any more than the cold hard facts of nature, but up to this point in my understanding, it is the best I can provide.

First, we suffer because we can think. Rocks cannot think nor suffer.

Second, there is a distinction between pain and suffering. Namely, pain is physiological, while suffering is mental. Fear is an emotion meant to protect us from danger. Fear is our friend and should be embraced as such, not avoided. It is the avoidance of fear that causes suffering. Avoidance becomes anxiety; a nagging feeling of doom and despair emerges and overwhelms the mind with horrific visions.

Thus, suffering is a state of the mind that ensues, for it cannot escape the thing it wants to avoid. Learning to conquer fear is one of life’s greatest challenges, but it can be done.

You ask why, but there is no why, there is only the biological need for fear to assist survival. There is no divine declaration that states that all shall suffer, for suffering is finally a personal choice. By choosing not to confront your fears, you choose instead, to give them power over your mind, and thus to suffer.

All will feel pain and pleasure; it is quite natural and good and it cannot be any other way. You seem to think that this is personal, as though you have done something to bring about this pain and pleasure. It is not personal, it is universal, for the just and the unjust all feel pain and pleasure alike. All creatures with a nervous system can feel. No creature did anything to deserve this in neither this life nor some other, but existing as we do, it is part of the package, and it is what makes life worth living; for if you cannot feel pain, you also cannot feel pleasure.

Rex

[Zap]

Interesting post.

Let me begin by saying that, since I do not know you, I will accept at face value your claim to be innocent, unlikely as it may be that you really are innocent.


What makes it unlikely? I am new here and am already having my balls busted on.



Second, there is a distinction between pain and suffering. Namely, pain is physiological, while suffering is mental.

We are not on the same semantic page. The dictionary says suffering is also pain.


Fear is an emotion meant to protect us from danger. Fear is our friend and should be embraced as such, not avoided. It is the avoidance of fear that causes suffering. Avoidance becomes anxiety; a nagging feeling of doom and despair emerges and overwhelms the mind with horrific visions.

I am not trying to avoid, but rather confront and fight. There is a difference.


Thus, suffering is a state of the mind that ensues, for it cannot escape the thing it wants to avoid. Learning to conquer fear is one of life’s greatest challenges, but it can be done.

Mental suffering is also a form of suffering. But whatever our distinctions of concepts, what I am getting from you with the "state of mind' theory is that the mind is apparently very powerful so the challenge, i am up for.


You ask why, but there is no why, there is only the biological need for fear to assist survival. There is no divine declaration that states that all shall suffer, for suffering is finally a personal choice. By choosing not to confront your fears, you choose instead, to give them power over your mind, and thus to suffer.

Like I said, I wish to confront them, not avoid. But at least your post does shed some light in that suffering could be a personal choice. Interesting.... cause if I can choose not to suffer, then the mind should be able to win the battle according to what i am following from you here - your implication of a state of mind that can be changed? Am I following you correctly?

.... it is what makes life worth living; for if you cannot feel pain, you also cannot feel pleasure.

Well whether it is worth it is up for debate as the argument is strong that physical evils, and various forms of suffering and evil in the world far outweigh the goods. And pain is a phenomenon that goes far more extreme than any pleasure... unless what you might be implying by "state of mind" might be true.

[RexT]

What makes it unlikely? I am new here and am already having my balls busted on.
Because you are human, and except for babies, I have yet to meet an innocent human. Perhaps you mean something different than I mean by innocent, but I hope you did think I was busting your balls.
We are not on the same semantic page. The dictionary says suffering is also pain.
Then let the dictionary guide your existence, or think for yourself. I would take the dictionary as a general guide to semantics, but to understand reality more deeply, we will need to exceed the works of any dictionary.
I am not trying to avoid, but rather confront and fight. There is a difference.
Yes, it seems that way, but the words you use here (confront and fight)seem to indicate avoidance. For to fight fear is already an indication that you wish to rid yourself of it, as though to destroy an enemy. What I said was that we must (embrace) fear to conquer it, we will never rid ourselves of it so long as we live.
Mental suffering is also a form of suffering. But whatever our distinctions of concepts, what I am getting from you with the "state of mind' theory is that the mind is apparently very powerful so the challenge, i am up for.
The mind is more powerful than most ever imagine, for it is the sum total of whatever reality we will ever have. If you learn, feel joy or pain, if you love or hate, see or hear or feel anything; it is all the product of the mind. I am not saying that an objective world does not exist, I am saying that it does not matter, for our reality is given only by the mind.
Like I said, I wish to confront them, not avoid. But at least your post does shed some light in that suffering could be a personal choice. Interesting.... cause if I can choose not to suffer, then the mind should be able to win the battle according to what i am following from you here - your implication of a state of mind that can be changed? Am I following you correctly?
Yes, it can be changed, but not merely by wishing it so; it requires working, learning and discipline, and few ever acheive much control of their mind, yet some have. Above all, it requires that the mind be kept open and free from bias, not a simple task to say the least.
Well whether it is worth it is up for debate as the argument is strong that physical evils, and various forms of suffering and evil in the world far outweigh the goods. And pain is a phenomenon that goes far more extreme than any pleasure... unless what you might be implying by "state of mind" might be true.
Exactly, it is up for debate, which is the first indication that nothing is set into stone, it can be altered by the mind, and the mind itself chooses which reality is believed. If you believe that there is suffering and that there is more of it than pleasure, then this will be your reality and no force in the universe can make you change that belief. Yet, you do have that power to believe what you will. Use that power to see the world in a different way than you have before.

Experiment with ideas and feelings, learn to give everything a different meaning until it has no meaning except that you give it. And when you see that reality is what you make it, make it natural and good to feel, even to feel pain if that is the case. For to feel is to be alive and to fear, but suffering is a state of mind that you allow, you choose, not consciously of course, but unconsciously you have been programmed to expect suffering. We cannot avoid pain in life, but the fact that we will be injured and eventually even die, need not be a reason to suffer.

Yes, I realize that what I say is extraordinary, not found in any dictionary or classic school of thought, but I speak from personal experience. If there is another path to freedom from suffering, I do not know what it is.

Anyway, I would wish you good journeys and much success and I hope I have helped to give you a new idea to consider.

Rex

[Jolly_Penguin]

As said above, the most important questions in any person's life are

1. Where can I get food?

2. How can I keep from becoming food? (or otherwise dead)

3. How can I get laid?

[Breath]

Yes, I think inner peace is a big one and hoping that for all.

I think your post was a very worthwhile one.

The matters which you address are fundamental, and the more fundamental one gets, the greater are the implications and consequences of what one says.

I gleaned a certain defensive/attacking mode from your replies to RexT, a matter about which I could be completely mistaken, but personally I would not discuss these sorts of issues with anyone who did not discuss them at arms length.

[sweetiepie]

You are on the right track. I think it would have to be "what is the second most important question in life?"
nah, your question is clearly second to mine. :)

[NothingButSky]

As said above, the most important questions in any person's life are

1. Where can I get food?

2. How can I keep from becoming food? (or otherwise dead)

3. How can I get laid?

:thumbs: What am I going to do next?

[Zap]

I think your post was a very worthwhile one.

The matters which you address are fundamental, and the more fundamental one gets, the greater are the implications and consequences of what one says.

Do you mean fundamental as in a 'fundy belief'?


I gleaned a certain defensive/attacking mode from your replies to RexT, a matter about which I could be completely mistaken, but personally I would not discuss these sorts of issues with anyone who did not discuss them at arms length.

Nah, I actually appreciated most of what he wrote. But am confused on how he would want me to embrace pain as if I can take pleasure from it. This to me is masochism and I would not consider that.

No defence from me though, I was just joking around when I felt like he was busting the balls of a newbie already.

[The Reformer]

Although not directly answering the original question, I feel one of the most important questions in life (aside from basic needs) is: Why?

Why do we exist?

[Zap]

Because you are human, and except for babies, I have yet to meet an innocent human. Perhaps you mean something different than I mean by innocent...

Why go in assuming guilt rather than neutrality on your a fellow being?

By innocent I mean one who never means any harm to anyone.



Then let the dictionary guide your existence, or think for yourself. I would take the dictionary as a general guide to semantics, but to understand reality more deeply, we will need to exceed the works of any dictionary.

But we need to use the same tools to communicate in order to be on the same page. This is why words mean what they mean... this is why we have a yardstick to determine that. For more meanings, we can use all kinds of words, but we have to agree on the words, otherwise no one will get anywhere. We can disagree on what is right or what the truth is, but all words we use must have an unambiguous meaning in a context we try to communicate in.


.... the words you use here (confront and fight)seem to indicate avoidance. For to fight fear is already an indication that you wish to rid yourself of it, as though to destroy an enemy. What I said was that we must (embrace) fear to conquer it, we will never rid ourselves of it so long as we live.

uhh, i am pretty sure there exist the fearless ones.

But the big thing I am confused on in your shared material is why you would suggest embracing the enemy?

THis is one thing i can't really see where you are at. The rest of what you said after that was fine..... until once again you went into something similar about how it can be considered nice to feel pain by tricking your mind. I would like you to explain how that is possible, because the war soldier begging for death while suffering would need this sort of advice.

Now as far as fear. Let me clarify... I have no problem with a bit of that... it is actually a good thing like in the dark... and in risky adventures... that actually povides some fuel. (And Halloween thrills and chills - the good stuff you are startled with). But when you go to the length of even trying to embrace the bearing of terror itself, I can't see how that is good (or even possible).



If there is another path to freedom from suffering, I do not know what it is.

Anyway, I would wish you good journeys and much success and I hope I have helped to give you a new idea to consider.

Rex

Well, first off, basically you reiterated somethings I read and saw on educational TV about the mind... I and others in here can definetly take some of it, but i think there is some more rectifying you need to do because I still find some of your fundamental ideas problematic... the other stuff on welcoming the unwanted clearly warrants further explanation.

[RexT]

Although not directly answering the original question, I feel one of the most important questions in life (aside from basic needs) is: Why?

Why do we exist?
Do you really mean why, as in there might be an intended purpose for us to exist, or do you mean how, as in asking of the process whereby we came to be?

Rex

[Zap]

........if a bear is chasing you to eat you alive...At that point I would bet you would not be asking yourself if life is worth living, but how would you kill the bear or at least distract the bear from killing you...

After watching a very 'scientific sounding' episode of "The Outer Limits", (i admit it might not be genuine concepts in science), but being reminded that animals do sense fear as a result of the state of the electrical activity in another brain (according to the show, but possibly other things like heat or smell in reality)... then, I can't help but say that there must be some way to have this phenomenon work in reverse -- to plant fear in another mind, whether that be in another human or animal. I mean, if fear can be sensed, why can't it be administered as well? :devil1:

[RexT]

Why go in assuming guilt rather than neutrality on your a fellow being?

By innocent I mean one who never means any harm to anyone.
Well, if you recall, I stated up front that I accept your claim of innocence. I merely said that, according to my understanding of innocence, there are none I have met that would qualify, except babies. Now that you have clarified your meaning of the word, I see that we do have a different sense of it.

You mean that your intentions are innocent, and I believe your intentions are good; I mean that the actions of people determine their innocence. It is hard to imagine that someone has never hurt another person, even unintentionally. Anyway, I hope we have that cleared up.
But we need to use the same tools to communicate in order to be on the same page. This is why words mean what they mean... this is why we have a yardstick to determine that. For more meanings, we can use all kinds of words, but we have to agree on the words, otherwise no one will get anywhere. We can disagree on what is right or what the truth is, but all words we use must have an unambiguous meaning in a context we try to communicate in.
Yes, I realize all of this, but finally, there are no unambiguous words. The trouble we were having with the word innocent is a good example of this. I still would not agree to your use of innocent, but at least now I understand what you mean. Yet, this required us to communicate awhile, so the dictionary did not help too much in this case.

Perhaps, if we communicate awhile, we might reach a mutual understanding of pain and suffering.


But the big thing I am confused on in your shared material is why you would suggest embracing the enemy?

THis is one thing i can't really see where you are at. The rest of what you said after that was fine..... until once again you went into something similar about how it can be considered nice to feel pain by tricking your mind. I would like you to explain how that is possible, because the war soldier begging for death while suffering would need this sort of advice.

No, the injured soldier does not need advice, he needs morphine. As I said before, pain is a physiological response and needs a physical cure. Well, there are some people who intentionally inflict pain on themselves. Apparently, they feel it differently than you or I might, and I would admit that I strongly dislike pain, but I could not say that such people also suffer form their self-inflicted pain. Yes, I think probably there is something mentally wrong with self-injury, for I think it is always wrong to be destructive without a good cause.

Everyone experiences life and death differently. There are those in a group, let us say, people dieing from cancer, where all will feel pain and die, but only some will suffer. The evidence is clear that those who do not suffer have embraced the so-called enemy, and used the awful experience to learn something about life and about themselves. Often, it is at the last moments of life that we come to realize its power and purpose. Yet, for some, it is merely an awful experience, nothing more and they die suffering. No one chooses to become ill and die from cancer, but it is a choice whether the experience is one of learning of merely suffering.
Now as far as fear. Let me clarify... I have no problem with a bit of that... it is actually a good thing like in the dark... and in risky adventures... that actually povides some fuel. (And Halloween thrills and chills - the good stuff you are startled with). But when you go to the length of even trying to embrace the bearing of terror itself, I can't see how that is good (or even possible).
Then for you it is not good nor possible. Perhaps you should speak to someone who has conquered this kind of fear, for myself, I have not yet done so. Yet, if I fail to do this during my life, I intend to do it at the end of my life, but I will not leave this world affraid. Already, there have been many awful things that I have experienced in my life and I have slowly overcome them or are still overcoming some of them, but these so-called enemies, have become my friends. For they have taught me the meaning of life and have shown me that I possess great power that I never knew I had before. I am greatful for the things I once hated and feared; I embrace them as true treasures of life. For what they have given me, no one can take away.
Well, first off, basically you reiterated somethings I read and saw on TV about the mind... I and others in here can definetly take some of it, but i think there is some more rectifying you need to do because I still find some of your fundamental ideas problematic... the other stuff on welcoming the unwanted clearly warrants further explanation.
I hope I have explained that above.

Rex

[kennethamy]

In some ways I realize this is one of those eternal questions that we might never answer. It's also amusing to me to consider that the question itself might be it's own answer!:funny: No, actually that's damned annoying!:banghead:

But putting the inherent problems with the question aside, I'm curious what people think about this one. When I began questioning my faith, I wanted answers. But as I've progressed in this journey I've come to realize certain questions probably aren't answerable, and even if I do find answers it does me no good if I'm asking the wrong questions. I already know the "answer" is 42, but that doesn't really help me! So I want to begin by asking myself "What are the questions I should be asking?" If you were to ask me a decade ago what the most important question in life was I would have probably answered something along the lines of "If you died this very moment, where would your soul be spending eternity?" A question that relies on so many presuppositions that many of the world's population don't even accept seems like a pretty lousy universal question to me. For a while I thought it might be something along the lines of "Does God exist?", but somehow that too entails too much. What do you mean 'God'? For that matter what do you mean by 'exists'? Must it be in a physical sense? The question is almost too vague to even be meaningful.

So I present this question to those who are interested: "What is/are the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?":huh:


I wonder what makes you think there has to be any? But, if there is any, the question, "what is the most important question(s) a person should ask in life?" would not be among them.

[kennethamy]

I agree with Camus on this.

The first question for the living philosopher is: Is life worth living?

That has to be answered first.

That may be right, since if you conclude the answer is, no, then you won't be asking any more questions about nothing in particular.

[Juma]

It significant that most of the answers given are quite egocentrical. The question "is life worth living" is a rather good sign of how self-centric philosphers tends to be and its really a non-question: we can never know the alternative.

I think the most important question is:
"What can I do to make this world a better place for its inhabitants."

[untermensche]

That may be right, since if you conclude the answer is, no, then you won't be asking any more questions about nothing in particular.
Not necessarily.

Camus says it is possible to live as if you have said no.

This he says is the Christian, who says this life is not the life that it worth living. This is the life that earns you the life that is worth living.

[primitivefuture]

"How can I sincerely repent so that God forgives me?"

[untermensche]

"How can I sincerely repent so that God forgives me?"
Send all your money to me.

[kennethamy]

Not necessarily.

Camus says it is possible to live as if you have said no.

.

I should have guessed there would be twist.

[Breath]

Do you mean fundamental as in a 'fundy belief'?

Nah, fundamental as in basic, foundational, radical (to the roots).


No defence from me though, I was just joking around when I felt like he was busting the balls of a newbie already.

Good to hear :)

[Breath]

"Why do I, and other innocent people have fears, like fear of suffering a type of death that is harsh, or suffering, or fear about this happening to others in general? Why have I gone through any of the suffering I have been through, and why am I subject (as we all are) to possibly experiencing the worst of all sufferings, as there is no guarantee to freedom and security from this that I am aware of in life. What have I possibly done to deserve to come to be born to such a state, with such fears existing. (As far as fear of death, I am not really affected by it, but sometimes it creeps in). I have done nothing to deserve this possible suffering that could come onto me, and nothing to deserve experiencing such unwanted fear. Same goes for other innocent people. I ask a simple why?"

Causally, the stuff that happens to you and everyone else happens because you and everyone else were born. It would make a lot of sense, because of knowing what you do, that you would not cause anyone to be born.


So why the fear and why the suffering? I've done stupid things as a child and hurt others, but I didn't realize what I was doing. But overall I am a good person who is innocent and does not deserve such exposure. Then my question surely demands a satisfactory answer.

When anyone brings another being into the world, knowing full-well what the world is like, they cannot claim innocence. The act/process of procreation is the act with the profoundest and most far-reaching consequences any being is capable of. In the absence of assurances about the well-being of your offspring, it would be an act of gross negligence to spawn them regardlessly, wouldn't you say?

But while your coming-to-be may make you a victim of the acts of others, your past, once you have arrived you are not a victim of your future, in that you are quite free to make of it what you can. You are just not free to not make something of it.

Cheers.

[daemonia]

The next question.