wordy
September 4, 2006, 04:49 AM
I only suggest this. I have no solid evidence for it.
"The word god is a social word not an entity!"
I've tried to get what religionists are doing since me being ten years old or maybe even earlier. I came out openly and aggressivily as an outspoken atheists when I was 20 years old and now I am retiring as an atheist activist being 60+ years old.
My conclusion is that our "outreach" only makes the fundie grow in numbers. The more we attack them the more they build clever defence and the more political power they accumulate. The more we try to get rid of them the more oppressive they get and we end up as scapegoats for them to put in prison as enemies of the social order or whatever law they put forward.
We need to change strategy. We need to find out what makes it tic. Why does religion strive even in our educational society.
Cause it gives the beleivers something we seem to fail to give them.
I don't say we should give them something that is bad. Not illusions to cling to but we need to see to their basic needs. Quality of life.
Now what do I mean by The word god is a social word not an entity!
I've behaved a bit like anthropological field workers. Participating in religious activities to get a feeling for what it is in them that makes them work for the believers but not for me.
As far as I have been able to get the word god is in practice a social word.
It refers to their social relations. It is how they relate within a group of believers. When they refer to god they show the group their loyalty. They make promises to the group. God as a word is used as a kind of warranty of them behaving ok in their relation to the others in the group. We all know they fail time after time bu that is how it seems to work anyway for them. As a hope of getting acknowledge within the group of being ok in their eyes.
God only get philosphical when they do apologetic talk. Or missionary talk. When they meet and pray and sing and practice their religion then god are a relational word. Many religions see god as personal. Personal not philosophical.
So I find it unproductive that atheism is focused on the philosophical part.
Does god exist?
Isn't it a kind of logical error in asking such a question?
Shouldn't we ask more like this.
Is it important for you as a believer that there is a real entity out there or is it ok for you that god is alive within your group. Does it really make any difference for you as a beleiver if god is measurable or evidential by instruments? Is it really important for you as believers that philosophical atheists approve of your god as a real logical entity. Are not god something that emerge within your group as a social relation amongst you? Isn't that enough for you as beleivers?
One indication that the writers of the Bible seemed aware of this is the claim that Jesus is near every time two or three meet and refer to him by name.
My interpretatiomn of that text is that they had experience of that if a group of people had a common shared referent then that personality emerged among them if they had the faith in that being able. To saw the seed as they say. The word is the seed and the seed is the name Jesus.
It is likely that it is a kind of social programming that makes our brain to create within itself a "referent" that is named god or Jesus.
God has no existence outside of that "incarnation" within the believers.
If seen as a meme I suggest some god memes has an inbuilt protection against the beleiver being able to admit this being a meme. They live in the delusion that it is all for real and not for make believe.
"The word god is a social word not an entity!"
I've tried to get what religionists are doing since me being ten years old or maybe even earlier. I came out openly and aggressivily as an outspoken atheists when I was 20 years old and now I am retiring as an atheist activist being 60+ years old.
My conclusion is that our "outreach" only makes the fundie grow in numbers. The more we attack them the more they build clever defence and the more political power they accumulate. The more we try to get rid of them the more oppressive they get and we end up as scapegoats for them to put in prison as enemies of the social order or whatever law they put forward.
We need to change strategy. We need to find out what makes it tic. Why does religion strive even in our educational society.
Cause it gives the beleivers something we seem to fail to give them.
I don't say we should give them something that is bad. Not illusions to cling to but we need to see to their basic needs. Quality of life.
Now what do I mean by The word god is a social word not an entity!
I've behaved a bit like anthropological field workers. Participating in religious activities to get a feeling for what it is in them that makes them work for the believers but not for me.
As far as I have been able to get the word god is in practice a social word.
It refers to their social relations. It is how they relate within a group of believers. When they refer to god they show the group their loyalty. They make promises to the group. God as a word is used as a kind of warranty of them behaving ok in their relation to the others in the group. We all know they fail time after time bu that is how it seems to work anyway for them. As a hope of getting acknowledge within the group of being ok in their eyes.
God only get philosphical when they do apologetic talk. Or missionary talk. When they meet and pray and sing and practice their religion then god are a relational word. Many religions see god as personal. Personal not philosophical.
So I find it unproductive that atheism is focused on the philosophical part.
Does god exist?
Isn't it a kind of logical error in asking such a question?
Shouldn't we ask more like this.
Is it important for you as a believer that there is a real entity out there or is it ok for you that god is alive within your group. Does it really make any difference for you as a beleiver if god is measurable or evidential by instruments? Is it really important for you as believers that philosophical atheists approve of your god as a real logical entity. Are not god something that emerge within your group as a social relation amongst you? Isn't that enough for you as beleivers?
One indication that the writers of the Bible seemed aware of this is the claim that Jesus is near every time two or three meet and refer to him by name.
My interpretatiomn of that text is that they had experience of that if a group of people had a common shared referent then that personality emerged among them if they had the faith in that being able. To saw the seed as they say. The word is the seed and the seed is the name Jesus.
It is likely that it is a kind of social programming that makes our brain to create within itself a "referent" that is named god or Jesus.
God has no existence outside of that "incarnation" within the believers.
If seen as a meme I suggest some god memes has an inbuilt protection against the beleiver being able to admit this being a meme. They live in the delusion that it is all for real and not for make believe.