What do you think of these ideas?

[goldingds]

I have some philosophic ideas, and I respect what you Inifidels have to say, so I'd like to post them. I didn't come up with most of these ideas myself, and I'm pretty sure they're Buddhist.

I'm athiest, so I believe that in reality, nothing matters. We're just organisms on a space rock in an endless ocean of space, etc. etc. Since I don't believe in any higher power or purpose, I believe that everything is meaningless matter.

Then, of course, our actions truly don't matter. Our worldly desires (to be successful, to find a mate, to outperform others) are unjustified and merely human. Our unhappiness stems from these constant desires and "needs." The "enlightenment" that Buddhists speak of means discarding this desire, and realising that nothing matters. The monks live very, very simple lives. Sometimes, they meditate, or use "Zen," to enter this undesiring state. When they realise, from the perspective of the whole unvierse, that their actions don't matter, they enter that state of Zen and become "one with the universe."

Is this the basic idea of Buddhism? What do you Infidels think about these ideas?

[JGL53]

...Is this the basic idea of Buddhism? What do you Infidels think about these ideas?

I think the basic ideas of Buddhism, Taoism, and even Vedanta (Hindus world view), completely denuded of ethnocentric cultural add-ons, are compatible with western science and with logic. The western monotheistic religions are a useless waste of time, for the most part.

That's what I think. :)

[TruthPrevails]

The "enlightenment" that Buddhists speak of means discarding this desire, and realising that nothing matters. Whilst this may be a common view, it is unfortunately a wrong interpretation of the core of Buddhist philosophy.

It is not discarding of desire but rather a non-attachment to desire. There are main and sub purpose(s) of life that are driven in us by nature. These basic drives cannot be discarded.

For example;
Hunger is a basic drive and manifest desires to satisfy this drive. A person ignorant of how the sub-purpose of hunger is related to the main purpose of life will develop greediness and cause unnecessary problems to oneself and others. Humans have been killed fighting for food.

Obesity is a problem arising from a severe attachment to hunger. The drive to eat more is hardwired in humans so as to store more energy when there is extra food. This will enable one to survive the next cycle of lesser food, especially in temperate countries with varying seasons.
In modern times, there is a constant period of plentiful food for the average person. However humans still have traces this drive of storage, and those ignorantly attached to such drive is doomed towards obesity.
What Buddhism teaches is not to discard the hunger desire, but to understand and master such desire, and not to be a slave to it. This is what is mean by non-attachment in Buddhism.

Hunger is just one basic drive necessary for survival. There are many other critical main and sub drives to ensure the preservation of the human specie. Animals are driven by instincts but humans are endowed with self-consciousness to handle more complex survival issues. Unfortunately it also give them the opportunity to ignorantly pervert those natural instinctual drives. Buddhist 'enligtenment' is the extinction of these ignorances which will then enable humans to drive and steer their main purpose of life at higher gears.

When driving at the higher gears, one's consciousness changes and is likely to experience feelings of oneness, elation, etc., that are different from the average person. This is secondary just like the feeling of a satisfying dinner, whilst the main purpose is obtaining energy for the body and brain to operate in alignment with the preservation of the specie.

[Musing Man]

I think there's no such thing as "nothing matters".
On the contrary, I stand for "everything matters".

While I agree that due to our mere size we're almost insignificant at a cosmic scale, I think the keyword here is almost.
Think more of the "butterfly effect" next time when "nothing matters" crosses your mind.

In our very own microcosmos, at least, we're very important to each other and to our surroundings, even if we often fail to see in what way(s).

[goldingds]

Thank you, you two! Those were very helpful replies.

TruthPrevails, are you basically saying that a Buddhist seeks to look at life's larger goals and purposes instead of focusing on the surface-desires? Where can I find more about these ideas? What are some common oppositions to these kinds of philosophies? Thank you very much!

[vfr]

I have some philosophic ideas, and I respect what you Inifidels have to say, so I'd like to post them. I didn't come up with most of these ideas myself, and I'm pretty sure they're Buddhist.

I'm athiest, so I believe that in reality, nothing matters. We're just organisms on a space rock in an endless ocean of space, etc. etc. Since I don't believe in any higher power or purpose, I believe that everything is meaningless matter.

Then, of course, our actions truly don't matter. Our worldly desires (to be successful, to find a mate, to outperform others) are unjustified and merely human. Our unhappiness stems from these constant desires and "needs." The "enlightenment" that Buddhists speak of means discarding this desire, and realising that nothing matters. The monks live very, very simple lives. Sometimes, they meditate, or use "Zen," to enter this undesiring state. When they realise, from the perspective of the whole unvierse, that their actions don't matter, they enter that state of Zen and become "one with the universe."

Is this the basic idea of Buddhism? What do you Infidels think about these ideas?


I think you are pointed in the right direction with 'some' of your concepts of Buddhism.

Buddhism is a good spiritual path for the atheist. In fact the majority of Buddhists are atheist. I draw from many spiritual traditions, so am not one or the other and exclude all the rest. I am a Christian - Buddhist - Taoist - Agnostic mix. My main focus of my Buddhist practice is concentrated on the 3 pillars of Buddhism that are common to all schools of Buddhist practice: I've settled on the essence of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this type of simplified practice.

3 Pillars of Buddhism

1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self awareness of our own true nature.

2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.

3- The development of compassion for others.

Buddhists are not required to believe or not believe in God, so anyone can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack thereof. In addition to the 3 pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us. Within the 3 pillars and the eightfold path are a lifetime of practice. No need to get lost in endless debate and spend you precious time in idle talk that only serves to massage one ego. Plenty of work to do right here, right now, unless we prefer to keep our minds distracted through our perpetual complexities we are so addicted to. We do need to give some thought of the 'right' way to live as the eightfold path tells us, so we should never try and be devoid of thought in our lives, but instead look for a balance and let thought serve us for once.

The Eightfold Path

1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration

How can you differentiate right from wrong? By peace. You learn what destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you need a teacher for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to peace as the best teacher?


The 5 precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists. Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice.

The Five Precepts

1. Refrain from Killing:
2. Refrain from Stealing:
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct:
4. Refrain from False Speech:
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants:

I will say most Buddhist I run into are deluded with their practice they think they are working to escape samara when they are only playing at it.

I disuss that topic here:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=9.0

Also check out WON Buddhism, maybe of interest to you.


Our worldly desires (to be successful, to find a mate, to outperform others) unjustified and merely human.


I discuss some of our worldly desires here:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=178353

Some of our desires are from natural law and a desire for a flourishing of the species that is built into us. Other times it is ego driving us. On the whole, you bring up some good points and I can't argue. I can only say that shit is poison if you get a little in your food, but shit is not poison and is a wonderful nutrient when used to grow plants. What does this mean? We can concentrate our thinking in two directions: that of destroying our peace with thoughts of hopelessness and despair or spend our time fostering thoughts of peace and serenity with our same brain power...poison one way and peace and health in another way.

Zen thinks a little differently from many other Buddhist sects although they share many of the basics. But this is how it goes with all the other sects as well...they all have their own ways.


Nothing maters?

In the big picture I guess you are right. (If you are a strong atheist and there is no karma or reincarnation or any type of afterlife or sprit.) Aftter all they say in so many million years the sun will die snd so will the earth. Then again, it is natures way for life to flourish, (unless mankind screws with it too much) so who knows what solution to life man will come up with by then? But, in the 'small picture', our actions do matter to us and they mater to others...even if there is no afterlife.

For me Zen meditation is to clear my mind of thought as best I can and let emptiness be. In reality, it is hard to have a perfectly blank mind, but we can head in that direction.

I discuss this concept here:


http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3721264&postcount=1


And here is a post on meditation:


http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3724618&postcount=38



Take Care,


V (Male) Christian-Buddhist...for free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion or belief of any group or organization.

[Tsuyoiko]

I'm athiest, so I believe that in reality, nothing matters.I'm an atheist, but I believe that lots of things matter. While of course I don't believe that there is a higher power that might judge us, my personal morality is still very important to me.

Just thought I'd mention it in case you thought that being an atheist entails this belief that 'nothing matters', which was how I understood your comment (perhaps mistakenly).

[vfr]

Whilst this may be a common view, it is unfortunately a wrong interpretation of the core of Buddhist philosophy.

It is not discarding of desire but rather a non-attachment to desire. There are main and sub purpose(s) of life that are driven in us by nature. These basic drives cannot be discarded.

For example;
Hunger is a basic drive and manifest desires to satisfy this drive. A person ignorant of how the sub-purpose of hunger is related to the main purpose of life will develop greediness and cause unnecessary problems to oneself and others. Humans have been killed fighting for food.

Obesity is a problem arising from a severe attachment to hunger. The drive to eat more is hardwired in humans so as to store more energy when there is extra food. This will enable one to survive the next cycle of lesser food, especially in temperate countries with varying seasons.
In modern times, there is a constant period of plentiful food for the average person. However humans still have traces this drive of storage, and those ignorantly attached to such drive is doomed towards obesity.
What Buddhism teaches is not to discard the hunger desire, but to understand and master such desire, and not to be a slave to it. This is what is mean by non-attachment in Buddhism.

Hunger is just one basic drive necessary for survival. There are many other critical main and sub drives to ensure the preservation of the human specie. Animals are driven by instincts but humans are endowed with self-consciousness to handle more complex survival issues. Unfortunately it also give them the opportunity to ignorantly pervert those natural instinctual drives. Buddhist 'enligtenment' is the extinction of these ignorances which will then enable humans to drive and steer their main purpose of life at higher gears.

When driving at the higher gears, one's consciousness changes and is likely to experience feelings of oneness, elation, etc., that are different from the average person. This is secondary just like the feeling of a satisfying dinner, whilst the main purpose is obtaining energy for the body and brain to operate in alignment with the preservation of the specie.


Yes, good points Truthprevails. In a nutshell, enlightenment is accepting what cannot be changed and changing what can and being at peace with it. Certain components of living are required "to live" and cannot be detached from. This is what the Buddha found out from his ascetic period. He saw the benefit of the middle path.

Just be careful goldingds of falling into the trap of many an intellectual Buddhist falls into...they overcomplicate matters and get stuck in 'analysis paralysis'

This is where Zen comes to the rescue. Zen helps calm the mind...a constantly busy mind cannot heal itself.



Take Care,


V (Male) Christian-Buddhist...for free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion or belief of any group or organization.

[vfr]

I think there's no such thing as "nothing matters".
On the contrary, I stand for "everything matters".

While I agree that due to our mere size we're almost insignificant at a cosmic scale, I think the keyword here is almost.
Think more of the "butterfly effect" next time when "nothing matters" crosses your mind.

In our very own microcosmos, at least, we're very important to each other and to our surroundings, even if we often fail to see in what way(s).



"everything matters".

Yes, another good point that was brought up.

Traditional Buddhists believe that karma governs their lives and 'everything does matter' via the route of dependent arising and reincrnation. Of course this requires faith, so for the pure atheist that balks at faith and requires proof, they may hit a roadblock with such topics.

I do not use the fear of karma, dependent arising, reincrnation so much to guide me. But I do agree that all our actions produce consequences and many of these actions produce consequences that destroy our peace as well as the peace of others. This is a universal truth.

I disuse that topic here:


http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=177948


I discuss some of the faith issues here:


http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=25.0


http://www.buddhachat.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6665&postcount=2



Take Care,


V (Male) Christian-Buddhist...for free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion or belief of any group or organization.

[Huon]

Is this the basic idea of Buddhism? What do you Infidels think about these ideas?
You could look at the other forum, usually called NARP :
Non-Abrahamic Religion & Philosophy

[goldingds]

thanks for the replies!

let me elaborate on the "nothing matters." I don't believe in any sort of reincarnation or afterlife, so deep down, in the big picture, I believe that nothing matters. Of course, in the small picture, I think things matter a lot, even things like our thoughts and our minor actions.