Bible Prophecy.

[Forum_Member]

One thing I have never given any thought to (until recently) is bible prophecy. My christian friends will always go on and on about how certain prophecies were predicted in biblical times and later came true. Since I have no real history of bible study or church attendance, can somebody here please explain to me the primary prophecies? (that is, the most important ones, if that makes any sense).

Also, how many have come true? (with proof). how many have come to pass?

[David B]

One thing I have never given any thought to (until recently) is bible prophecy. My christian friends will always go on and on about how certain prophecies were predicted in biblical times and later came true. Since I have no real history of bible study or church attendance, can somebody here please explain to me the primary prophecies? (that is, the most important ones, if that makes any sense).

Also, how many have come true? (with proof). how many have come to pass?

AFAIK there are no clear cut cases where biblical prophesies have come true. Some christians use special pleading to claim that some OT texts prophesy Jesus, but none stand up to sceptical examination.

OTOH there are some biblical prophesies that clearly have not come true - all the stuff about the second coming within a generation or so, for a start. Some christians use special pleading of some sort or other to rationalise this away.

But the bottom line is - None. Zilch.

David B

[Braunhemd]

The problem here is that none of the verses actually say somthing like "Nuclear war will begin on Aug. 3, 2008", and many are vague enough that they don't predict much at all. If the statement doesn't claim anything in particular, then you really can't prove it false, because the prophecy-supporters or some other group will just say they misinterpreted it, and that it really says something else. When there's no concrete prediction, there really can't be much fruitful argument about it.

You can deal with specific interpretations and specific kooks (Yisrayl Hawkins being an excellent and current example). I think the best argument against the prophecies is that so far, nobody has actually predicted anything beforehand with them, they have only turned around after the fact and said that the prophecy supported something. On the other hand, there are as many supposedly Bible-based prophecies as you like that most certainly did not come true.

I seem to remember something written in the Bible as a specific prophecy that is obviously false, so I shall go try to find it.

EDIT:
Ah, Ezekiel 26:
"1 In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, 'Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,' 3 therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets
[...]
13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Here is a picture of part of Tyre in 2006 (http://www.nuff.ox.ac.uk/projects/Civitas/pics/progress2.jpg). Doesn't look destroyed or underwater to me...

[EricK]

It is interesting, is it not, that modern science can make prophecies which are many orders of magnitude more precise than any in the Bible, and they will all come true, and yet the sort of people who go on about bible prophecies don't seem at all impressed by this.

[funinspace]

One thing that makes the discussion of prophecy difficult, is that the typical True Believer accepts 1 time frame for the writing of a book; and skeptics (and often mainstream Protestants) believe another time frame for the books writing. The Book of Daniel is a good example. The atypical True Believer/fundamentalist/evangelical will believe it was written 600 BCE, while others believe it was written in the 2nd century BC. Therefore events mentioned Daniel that came later than 600 BCE, are seen to have been predicted by the True Believer; and the skeptic see's creative writing.

Isaiah, among others is used as prophetic of Jesus. Two issues arise. One is a question of verse interpretation, the other is a question of whether the events happened as predicted or were written to match perceived Messianic requirements. An example could be Bethlehem. Jesus birth is only mentioned in Matt and Luke, and have allot of information that is difficult to harmonize. Mark is usually considered the oldest, and doesn't mention the various aspects of the miraculous birth story. So was Jesus really born in Bethlehem or Nazareth? Was Bethlehem just written back into history in order to match a perceived Hebrew canon prophetic requirement?

[DBT]

Here's a good list (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html) of failed prophecies.
A lot of of these appear straightforward, but I suppose some could be rationalized in some way.