Can someone clarify Sharia for me?

[expatlady]

Hi all,

I'm confused by Sharia and its role in modern Islam. Is it true that it is followed only by fundamentalists? What is its connection to the Quran?

[Bloodnf]

Hi all,

I'm confused by Sharia and its role in modern Islam. Is it true that it is followed only by fundamentalists? What is its connection to the Quran?

Muslims who follow the laws of Islam are following sharia.

Sharia is law with its basis in the Quran and the Sunnah (The practice of the prophet).

[Rathpig]

Hi all,

I'm confused by Sharia and its role in modern Islam. Is it true that it is followed only by fundamentalists? What is its connection to the Quran?

"Sharia" is a form of Islamic religious law based on the early Medieval doctrines of Arabic tribal culture. Features of Sharia are based in male dominated society where women are owned first by their father (or brothers) and later by her husband. Sharia also features forced religious adherence and harsh ancient criminal punishments such as stoning and limb mutilation.

To understand the reality of Sharia one must first understand that "fundamentalist Islam" is mainstream Islam. "Moderate Islam" is a public relation myth created by Western Leftists. Sharia is Islam, and Sharia is the legal system of the early Middle Ages.

The connection of Sharia to the Koran can be found in the fact that the Koran is merely the fantasy of a 9th century goatherder which fancied themselves gods and prophets and kings. Since the Koran is merely Arabic fantasy based on Jewish mythology, the best thing to understand about Muslims is that they are anachronistic fools (as are all theists).

Rathpig
Harsh yes, but truth my only defense

[expatlady]

Ouch. I am aware of the basics of what Sharia stands for, what I'm confused about is how profuse it is in Islamic culture. I'm well aware that it is the basis for law in fundamentalist regimes, but what is its role in countries like Turkey or Egypt for example?

[Anat]

Well, in Israel all marriages that are conducted in the country are religious marriages and any disputations revolving around them take place in the relevant religious court. Thus Muslim marriages fall under the jurisdiction of Sharia courts, the way Jewish marriages fall under the jurisdiction of the Rabbinical courts.

[Bloodnf]

Ouch. I am aware of the basics of what Sharia stands for, what I'm confused about is how profuse it is in Islamic culture. I'm well aware that it is the basis for law in fundamentalist regimes, but what is its role in countries like Turkey or Egypt for example?

Most muslim countries are former British or French colonies. The legal systems are based on British or French common law. Some countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and the shiekdoms of the Gulf base their legal systems on Sharia. Turkey is explixitly secular with Islam forcibally removed from the public sphere.

However practicisng Muslims act in accordance of Sharia no matter what the country's legal system.

[expatlady]

Most muslim countries are former British or French colonies. The legal systems are based on British or French common law. Some countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and the shiekdoms of the Gulf base their legal systems on Sharia. Turkey is explixitly secular with Islam forcibally removed from the public sphere.

However practicisng Muslims act in accordance of Sharia no matter what the country's legal system.

Thanks for clearing that up. Does that mean that practicing Muslims are expected to act against the governing laws of the country they live in in order to obey Sharia? For example, many of the punishments for disloyal behavior toward one's husband or religion would be considered criminal according to British or French common law. How do practicing Muslims reconcile Sharia with secular laws?

[Bloodnf]

Thanks for clearing that up. Does that mean that practicing Muslims are expected to act against the governing laws of the country they live in in order to obey Sharia? For example, many of the punishments for disloyal behavior toward one's husband or religion would be considered criminal according to British or French common law. How do practicing Muslims reconcile Sharia with secular laws?

There is not much in Sharia that would be in conflict with secular laws. Where there would be conflict would be in what Sharia permits but secular laws dont, ie Polgamy, corporal discipline of a wife or child, muslims would just have to refrain from it. I cant really think of anything that Sharia requires that would conflict with secular law.

[Rathpig]

al-taqiya

[Hyndis]

There is not much in Sharia that would be in conflict with secular laws. Where there would be conflict would be in what Sharia permits but secular laws dont, ie Polgamy, corporal discipline of a wife or child, muslims would just have to refrain from it. I cant really think of anything that Sharia requires that would conflict with secular law.

Under sharia "law", the testimony of a woman or non-Muslim carries far less weight than a Muslim man. If I recall, their testimony is only supposed to be 1/4th as valuable.

Women are also supposed to be given a vastly smaller share of inheretence. Oh, and then unless a raped woman has 4 male witnesses who are willing to testify in court, she's to be put to death for adultery.


And those are just things off the top of my head.

[Pavlov's Dog]

To understand the reality of Sharia one must first understand that "fundamentalist Islam" is mainstream Islam. "Moderate Islam" is a public relation myth created by Western Leftists. Sharia is Islam, and Sharia is the legal system of the early Middle Ages.

I know plenty of Muslims that are moderate and don't follow all the rules in the Koran or Sunnah. They cherry pick what parts that they want and ignore others that they feel are outdated or silly in the same way liberal Christians do. I am not going to argue whether fundamentalism Islam is the mainstream Islam or not, because I don't know. I do know that Moderate Islam is not myth. I have seen it practiced.

[Rathpig]

... I do know that Moderate Islam is not myth. I have seen it practiced.

Is that Islam?

Or have you witnessed merely another version of Pascal's wager?

Playing a game of religion where a person picks some parts and ignores the other shouldn't be confused with moderation, but then again moderation in Islam is characterized by simply not blowing one's self up, yet.

Rathpig

[expatlady]

al-taqiya

Looked it up. Very interesting... Thanks!

[Pavlov's Dog]

Is that Islam?

Sure.

Playing a game of religion where a person picks some parts and ignores the other shouldn't be confused with moderation

I am not confusing moderation with anything. I know exactly what religious moderation is and I have seen it practiced by Muslims.

but then again moderation in Islam is characterized by simply not blowing one's self up, yet.

If only hyperbole made something true.

[Rathpig]

...I am not confusing moderation with anything. I know exactly what religious moderation is and I have seen it practiced by Muslims.

And throughout the planet in every language with even a casual knowledge of world events, say, "Allah Akbar BOOM!" and no one questions your meaning. It is axiomatic that Islam equates to violence.

Islam is not a religion of moderates with a few extremist elements as some would have us believe. Islam is a violent Medieval superstition within which one can find moderation among seemingly "reformed" and scattered individuals. Or is this al-taqiya? What is said in the "moderate" Mosque when the world isn't watching? How do these "moderate" Muslims truly view their infidel co-workers? How do these "moderate" Muslims treat their wives and sisters?

Frankly stated, "lip service to moderation doesn't mean shit to me". I don't accept the possiblity of moderate Neo-nazis, moderate Klansmen, moderate pedophiles, or moderate Muslims. Self-ascribed membership in a cult of hate and violence makes you a party to hate and violence.

Rathpig

[Pavlov's Dog]

And throughout the planet in every language with even a casual knowledge of world events, say, "Allah Akbar BOOM!" and no one questions your meaning. It is axiomatic that Islam equates to violence.

It is not axiomatic just because you say it is.

Islam is not a religion of moderates with a few extremist elements as some would have us believe.

I don't know how many are extremist or how many or moderate, so I cannot speak to that. What I personally know a few that are moderate. It could just be a coincidence that every Muslim I know is moderate. It likely is since the ones I know were born in the U.S. or have lived here a very long time. I am not arguing whether mainstream Muslims are violent or stupid or any other thing. I am just pointing out that moderate Muslims are not a myth. They are real.

Islam is a violent Medieval superstition within which one can find moderation among seemingly "reformed" and scattered individuals.

All religions are supersitions to me, so this really doesn't mean anything. You can follow Islam and be violent or you can follow Islam and be peaceful. The five pillars of Islam mention nothing about violence. If somebody follows the five pillars of Islam, I am not going to deny that they are Muslim, just because they are not violent. Maybe it is a few scattered individuals, but they seem to be all I know. I will admit, I don't hang around with any fundamentalist types of any religion, so it is not surprising.

Or is this al-taqiya?

Not all Muslims practice al-taqiyya. Some Muslims (mainly Sunni) denounce it as dishonoring god.

What is said in the "moderate" Mosque when the world isn't watching?
I don't know. Several of the Muslims I am talking about don't go to Mosques, at least not on a regular basis.

How do these "moderate" Muslims truly view their infidel co-workers?
Probably a lot better than you view of them.

How do these "moderate" Muslims treat their wives and sisters?

Considering one of them has been married to my aunt (an infidel herself) for about 15 years and my family is close, I would say he treats her pretty well. A lot better than a lot of husbands treat their wives.

Frankly stated, "lip service to moderation doesn't mean shit to me". I don't accept the possiblity of moderate Neo-nazis, moderate Klansmen, moderate pedophiles, or moderate Muslims. Self-ascribed membership in a cult of hate and violence makes you a party to hate and violence.

Islam is no more a cult of hate and violence than Christianity or Judaism. All their holy books are filled with violence, superstitions, etc. Some choose to ignore those parts and some choose to accept them as the divine word. Nobody follows every word in their holy book exactly.

[expatlady]

Bringing this back to Sharia, I found a fascinating source of information on the "Ask the Scholar" section of IslamOnline.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1118742803355&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/Page/FatwaCounselE

People ask questions regarding Islamic law, which are answered by a Scholar citing specific fatwas. Since the forum is in English, most questions come from Muslims living in the west. And most of the questions are related to the application of Sharia under the laws of western countries. Other questions come from Westerners trying to get a clue about Islam.

The most recent posts regard Ramadan, but you can find more posts by clicking "next".

As an example, here is a post explaining Jihad: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543554&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

[hinduwoman]

The problem with Sharia is that it doesnot distinguish between the secular and religious. When a question of law arises, the answer is to be sought either in the Koran or the Sunnah which are the final binding authorities, not in human rights or principles of equality.
The quazis have to interpret what God would want them to do --- that is where you get some flexibility but not much. For example a muslim cannot adopt under shariah however much the quazi might be sympatheic to his desire. That is because Allah had forbidden it and that is that.

[hinduwoman]

Again the problem with Jihad is that one of its primary meaning is war to spread Islam and Muhammad practised it thoroughly.
So Jihadists are being good muslims.