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Lógos Sokratikós
September 20, 2006, 10:43 PM
Among the developed democracies absolute belief in God, attendance of religious services and Bible literalism vary over a dozenfold, atheists and agnostics five fold, prayer rates fourfold, and acceptance of evolution almost twofold. Japan, Scandinavia, and France are the most secular nations in the west, the United States is the only prosperous first world nation to retain rates of religiosity otherwise limited to the second and third worlds (Bishop; PEW). Prosperous democracies where religiosity is low (which excludes the U.S.) are referred to below as secular developed democracies.

Correlations between popular acceptance of human evolution and belief in and worship of a creator and Bible literalism are negative.

A few hundred years ago rates of homicide were astronomical in Christian Europe and the American colonies (Beeghley; R. Lane). In all secular developed democracies a centuries long-term trend has seen homicide rates drop to historical lows (Figure 2). The especially low rates in the more Catholic European states are statistical noise due to yearly fluctuations incidental to this sample, and are not consistently present in other similar tabulations (Barcley and Tavares). Despite a significant decline from a recent peak in the 1980s (Rosenfeld), the U.S. is the only prosperous democracy that retains high homicide rates, making it a strong outlier in this regard (Beeghley; Doyle, 2000). Similarly, theistic Portugal also has rates of homicides well above the secular developed democracy norm. Mass student murders in schools are rare, and have subsided somewhat since the 1990s, but the U.S. has experienced many more (National School Safety Center) than all the secular developed democracies combined.

The positive correlation between pro-theistic factors and juvenile mortality is remarkable, especially regarding absolute belief, and even prayer (Figure 4). Life spans tend to decrease as rates of religiosity rise (Figure 5), especially as a function of absolute belief. Denmark is the only exception. Unlike questionable small-scale epidemiological studies by Harris et al. and Koenig and Larson, higher rates of religious affiliation, attendance, and prayer do not result in lower juvenile-adult mortality rates on a cross-national basis.


Although the late twentieth century STD epidemic has been curtailed in all prosperous democracies (Aral and Holmes; Panchaud et al.), rates of adolescent gonorrhea infection remain six to three hundred times higher in the U.S. than in less theistic, pro-evolution secular developed democracies (Figure 6).

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Of course, we're talking about correation, which may or may not correspond to causation. Is theistic belief really a factor in scial ills. Why or why not?

What do these research results mean?

Lógos Sokratikós
September 20, 2006, 10:47 PM
Another source:
http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm


"It's biased, it's biased! It's an anti-theist website!!!"

Is it "just" a correlation? Are these alleged studies trustworthy?

Lógos Sokratikós
September 20, 2006, 10:52 PM
And just another...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiousness_and_intelligence

Is that defamatory language "intelligence" + "religiousness", an insinuation that "believers are morons"?

Atheist conspiring for slander? :huh:

MHF
September 20, 2006, 11:21 PM
It's true that belief in God is less common among high IQ's than among the general population.

But this is not evidence against God, because there may be other explanations for this
observation that are independent on whether theism is true or not.
For instance, intelligent people may be more likely to question authorities, or to question
things learned during childhood. That by itself is not evidence that something learned
during childhood is wrong.

You always have to be careful when you draw conclusions from statistics. For example, I
read somewhere that atheists have slighly lower divorce rates. You could conclude from
that that becoming atheists lowers the chance of a divorce. But that conclusion is not
warranted, because again, there could be other explanations (e.g. the reason that
atheists might have lower divorce rates may have nothing to do with beliefs, but could
just as well be explained by saying that atheists tend to have higher IQ's which is
correlated to higher incomes, which reduces financial stress and thus divorce rates).

So if theists have higher divorce rates, it does not imply that theism increases
divorce rates.

What it does imply though is that theism is not nearly as effective as some theists
claim.

lpetrich
September 20, 2006, 11:42 PM
I would NOT want to equate causation and correlation here, but it's interesting how devotion to religion does NOT produce increased well-being. There appears to be only one thing that the more secular societies are behind in, and that's the suicide rate.


ETA: The thread Baylor U Study: What Kind of God? (Merged) (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=180076), mentioned The study itself, "American Piety in the 21st Century" (PDF) (http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/33304.pdf). The study broke down various measures of religiosity by various demographic variables, of which I will use what seem like reasonable measures of well-being: education and household income. Note that what I will quote below are statistical trends not all-or-nothing absolutes.

By affiliation:
Black Protestants, Evangelical Protestants, Mainline Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Others, Unaffiliated

Education:
Low: Black Protestants, Evangelical Protestants, Mainline Protestants
Average: Catholics
High: Jews, Others, Unaffiliated

Income:
Low: Black Protestants, Evangelical Protestants
Average: Mainline Protestants
High: Catholics, Jews, Others, Unaffiliated

By kinds of gods:
A - Authoritarian, active, angry
B - Benevolent, active, not angry
C - Critical, inactive, angry
D - Distant, inactive, not angry
F - Faithless, nonexistent (atheism)

Education:
Low: A
Average: B, C
High: D, F

Income:
Low: A
Average: B, C
High: D, F

So even in the US itself, there is an inverse correlation between level of religiosity and level of well-being.

seebs
September 21, 2006, 03:20 AM
I think there's an obvious correlation between intelligence and willingness to disregard what you were told.

I think this runs into the same problems a lot of statistics do; no easy way to factor out different subsets. For instance, if you look only at skin color, black people are more likely to get sickle cell anemia. However, once you know about the genetic roots of the disease, you can subdivide into groups at high risk and groups at no risk at all.

I would certainly grant that credulous people raised in a culture with a strong theistic history are very likely to end up as theists... Which will not change the fact that they are otherwise credulous.

The main concern I'd have is the tendency to affirm the consequent. We already have people who are convinced that blacks are violent and dumb; do we really need people who are just as convinced that all religious people are stupid?

That said, I think this is valuable research, although the complete impossibility of clean controls makes it hard to be sure about the details.

But give it time; in atheistic societies, I would bet that theism tends to show up among creative thinkers and skeptics, who will not accept the casual assurances that, e.g., "we sent astronauts up and looked, there's no God".

skepticgirl
September 21, 2006, 03:45 AM
Japan, Scandinavia, and France are the most secular nations in the west

Does anyone else find this funny? Japan and Scandinavia are on opposite sides of the world and yet they both manage to be Western nations.

Lógos Sokratikós
September 21, 2006, 08:13 AM
:rolling:

ond_magiker
September 21, 2006, 08:27 AM
Does anyone else find this funny? Japan and Scandinavia are on opposite sides of the world and yet they both manage to be Western nations.

Some would even go as far as saying Scandinavia isn't a nation.