River's Qu'Ran Youtube thread

[River]

Salaam.

On' this blessed month of Ramadan....I would like to share with you. I ask that every one here on this forum, the wiccans, the agnostics, and the anti-theists ...to reflect upon the meaning of the Last Testament.

Ye' have read many times "transliterations" and "transmogrifications" of the Holy Qur'an....but how does the Qur'an really sound?......On this day ....I want the Qur'an to
speak to you ....so please listen....

I would like this thread to be an open discussion. Please share your thoughts and your comments about the following video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__TtLTgrEus

-River

[Hedshaker]

what a pile of shit!

[bookworm14]

You have forgotten the Book of Mormon. :wave:
bookworm14

[funinspace]

Lo siento, no comprendo Aramaic ;)

[Howard]

I kind of liked the music but the words were really dumb. I give it a 3.5.

What else ya got?

[barbos]

It was good, but I like indian music more.

[mirage]

That guy needs a better librettist.

I like the sound ok though.

[expatlady]

Salaam. And a peaceful Ramdan to you.

I thank you for offering your scriptures, a gift which I cannot accept, as someone seeking to do good in this world without the biases imposed by religion, but nonetheless I thank you for your good will.

[sea star]

What is an "anti-theist"?

And what about the atheists, of whom there are many here?

[Kosh3]

Sounds nice.

[Her pinkness saves]

due to the ability to songify their holy book; islam gets +2.

[Chris Weimer]

much of the ketuvim can also be carminized.

[Withered]

due to the ability to songify their holy book; islam gets +2.

What does that stack with?

[Mughal]

The quran the criterion, I don't think so. Why not?

Because it is illogical, unfair, unjust and down right cruel.

The quran points out that women are weak and in subordinate position yet when the quran sets out the punishments for breaking its rules, it orders same punishments for both men and women eg flogging ie 100 lashes each man or woman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nUI3TUdFCk&NR

Crap is crap, no matter whatever the wrapper.

Ramadan breaks routine and causes problems.

Most recently the Pope has become aware of the peace that quran offers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=TDwfonyMadU

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1226&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[River]

The quran the criterion, I don't think so. Why not?

Because it is illogical, unfair, unjust and down right cruel.

The quran points out that women are weak and in subordinate position yet when the quran sets out the punishments for breaking its rules, it orders same punishments for both men and women eg flogging ie 100 lashes each man or woman.

Crap is crap, no matter whatever the wrapper.

Ramadan breaks routine and causes problems.

Most recently the Pope has become aware of the peace that quran offers.



Your argument is "slightly" off topic. The OP does NOT debate whether the Qur'an is Al-Furqan ( The Criterion). The topic is about the actual recitation titled " the Criterion". How it is expressed...and how it reverberates....

and what is this haggis...about Ramadan breaking routine?....I would imagine matriculating to and fro elementary school breaks routine...summer vacations break routine...taking a bath thrice a day (instead of just once)...also breaks routine... lol...

ya and getting typhoid fever @ islamabad and having a train of petit mal seizures (subsequent...)...uh.. also breaks routine....am I not right
Mullah Mughal?

[Mughal]

Dear River, the quran is not a blessing but a curse.

Children in muslim households are taught the quran before they reach school and once brainwashed against the real world so early in life almost all lack the ability to look at the quran critically ever in their life.

The quran must be kept away from children and uneducated people if world is to to contain violent islam.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p570nGshue0&NR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJkmRBEOC3o&NR

[River]

Dear River, the quran is --- blessing -------

Children in muslim households are taught the quran before they reach school and once brainwashed against the real world so early in life almost all lack the ability .....



lol...yeah maybe in Pakistan, buddy....:rolleyes: ...

I think its about time for you to make your Hijra to Glasgow.....

[River]

Salaam. And a peaceful Ramdan to you.

I thank you for offering your scriptures, a gift which I cannot accept, as someone seeking to do good in this world without the biases imposed by religion, but nonetheless I thank you for your good will.

Salaam.

Happy Ramazan.

-River
Peace.

[River]

I kind of liked the music but the words were really dumb. I give it a 3.5.

What else ya got?

I believe you will like the following Recitation....please listen

it is titled Surah Qari.

[What is the QARI??? ] THIS IS AN OPEN DISCUSSION. ANYONE CAN PARTICIPATE AT ANY TIME . PLEASE DO

NOT HESITATE.



Iqra------------INTRODUCING SURAH QARI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYDqUYEph28&mode=related&search=

[barbos]

River, what is the point of all this ?

[Howard]

River, what is the point of all this ?
I’m beginning to think it’s the Muslim version of “suffering for your faith.” River routinely regales us with the wonders and marvels of Islam, knowing such posts will be treated with disdain and ridicule around here.

I can see no other reason for him to do this because he sure as hell knows it won’t impress, much less convert, anyone.

I guess every religionist thinks his personal brand of superstitious claptrap is the real deal.

[River]

River, what is the point of all this ?


the point ..

it is bequeathed to Al-Qari.

[River]

I can see no other reason for him to do this because he sure as hell knows it won’t impress, much less convert, anyone.




Do ye' truly think that the purpose of life is to convert? Verily it is NOT.

I have no such authority. I am only mortal.

Do ye' truly think that I am here to impress?

How do you impress those that enjoin'..those that relish their

perpetual state of naivete?

So what is my purpose here?

What is your purpose here?

[River]

I’m beginning to think it’s the Muslim version of “suffering for your faith.”



Wrong.

I get no credit whether you convert to Islaam or whether you become

a Raelian....

and I am (currently) certainly NOT suffering for my faith.

-River

[Howard]

Do ye' truly think that the purpose of life is to convert? Verily it is NOT.
I have no such authority. I am only mortal.

Do ye' truly think that I am here to impress? That’s good because you’re doing a really lousy job of advocating for your faith.

How do you impress those that enjoin'. .those that relish their perpetual state of naivete? Try logic, reason and evidence.

What is your purpose here? Just enjoying my naivete… and waiting for those 72 hot virgins to come along.

[River]

That’s good because you’re doing a really lousy job of advocating for your faith.

Try logic, reason and evidence.

Just enjoying my naivete… and waiting for those 72 hot virgins to come along.

1) I am not an advocate. I am a physician in training.

2) logic, reason, and evidence is what those with insurmountable naivety deny

3) The Qur'an does NOT state that there are "72" nor is there any mention of

coital relations therein.

-PLEASE STICK TO THE TOPIC .

IF YOU ARE PERTURBED. THEN LEAVE. THIS IS NOT INCUMBENT UPON YOU

[River]

Sorry,

I got sidetracked. Just out of curiosity. Which of the following two Recitals

sound "acoustically" pleasing. Let it be Version 1 or Let it be Version 2. The

verse is very brief. So lets have a moment to assess. All statements and

comments are welcome...but please try to stick to the topic. Thank you.

-River


COMPARE:


1) Sura Fatiha ( Version 1 Recital)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn3VbCwTF6w


2) Sura Fatiha ( Version 2 Recital)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A335jKNOic

[Howard]

The Qur'an does NOT state that there are "72" nor is there any mention of coital relations therein.Too bad. That's the only thing about Islam I found appealing.

PLEASE STICK TO THE TOPIC.If the topic is the music I don’t like any of it. Why not try a hip-hop version of the Qu’ran? You have to modernize if you want to compete in today’s religion market.

[River]

If the topic is the music I don’t like any of it.


No?

[River]

I kind of liked the music ...



huh??

[Howard]

huh??Changed my mind. Can't dance to any of it.

[JamesBannon]

Very nice River, though I prefer a bit of Bach's organ work or Gregorian Chant myself. Strange how religiously inspired music can be beautiful, even moving. However, that's the music and it's not necessarily related to the religious message. The Abrahamic faiths are the faiths of deluded people who believe in an evil tyrant and I find that rather sad.

[River]

"Changing the Tide" is a breathtaking speech

by prominent Scholar of Islam, Hamza Yusuf Hanson. It has profound

political ramifications and embodies the essence of the Islamic Spirit ( Ruh)

The video is intellectual by nature and I am proud to show it you , today.

Please watch the entire video.....(some of the more interesting

parts are scattered through the middle and end)


take a look:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djf1afNgWlg&mode=related&search=

This is an open discussion. All comments and thoughts are welcome.

[Space Chef]

nevermind. it's pointless.

[espritch]

Muslims sing the Qua'ran. Jews sing the Torah. Another of the many things you have in common.

[River]

nevermind. it's pointless.

why do you say that?

Are you trying to divert the attention of the audience? Do you not

believe that people can think for themselves? Should we take your word

as Gospel?

[Space Chef]

Are you trying to divert the attention of the audience?

Yes!

Do you not believe that people can think for themselves?

Of course they can't!

Should we take your word as Gospel?

Of course you should.

:rolleyes:

I removed my original post and just said "nevermind. it's pointless.". If I didn't like the comment I made in a thread about MST3k then I'd edit it the same. I didn't intend for a fucking derail.

The end.

[River]

well then,


Space Chef,

thank you for your comments. Now, I am really curious ...what does the audience think of the video speech presentation?
Or perhaps I should check up later.

-River

[Hawkeye]

Nice, but what exactly do you want us to discuss, River? The Criterion sounds alot like your average "believe like we do or burn in Hell" warnings so common amongst some Christian. Many here are used to that and not particularely impressed by variations of it.

[Alethias]

I think the topic is if it's pleasing to the ear to listen to the Qu'Ran being sung/recited. Not my preference for day-to-day fare, but it sounds kinda kool. I liked the sound of the second one better than the first. It does a better job of conveying a tone of wistfulness and longing, mixed with a sense of mystery and wonder.

Music is good at conveying hollow meaning. The ability to convey an emotional context with no attachment to reality is a great tool to manipulate and deceive people.

Probably not the analysis you'd hoped for, River, but it's what I honestly see in it.

Alethias.

[River]

"Changing the Tide" is a an astonishing speech

by prominent Scholar of Islam, Hamza Yusuf Hanson. Hamza Yusuf truly

embodies the essence of the Islamic Spirit... and is personally one of

my favourite contemporary scholars.

The video is intellectual by nature and I feel proud to show it you , today.

Please observe the video in its entirety...as the more interesting parts

are sometimes scattered towards the end! Happy Ramazan.


take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djf1afNgWlg&mode=related&search=

This is an open discussion. All comments and thoughts are welcome.

[David B]

I think the topic is if it's pleasing to the ear to listen to the Qu'Ran being sung/recited. Not my preference for day-to-day fare, but it sounds kinda kool. I liked the sound of the second one better than the first. It does a better job of conveying a tone of wistfulness and longing, mixed with a sense of mystery and wonder.

Music is good at conveying hollow meaning. The ability to convey an emotional context with no attachment to reality is a great tool to manipulate and deceive people.

Probably not the analysis you'd hoped for, River, but it's what I honestly see in it.

Alethias.

I'm wondering if it isn't a bit more than that.

Just wondering - but on the basis that in my TM fundy days, it was believed in my circle that listening to the vedas, even without understanding a word, had some sort of vague unspecified good things happening to your spirituality, or - in word - evolution.

Also that listening to the vedas helped one transcend to higher experiences, after one had prepared oneself by doing TM.

Sometimes I felt this, quite strongly. Now - I put that down to suggestibility.

I agree completely with what you say about music being a manipulative tool. There are chants of the Vedas, Recitations of Koran (I grew up spelling it like that), Gregorian chants, Gospel music in Black American Churches, Voodoo ceremonies et al that seem to me to demonstrate that quite adequately.

I wouldn't have put that in quite the terms that you used, though. I'd have said that some forms of music are very good tools for putting the more subject to suggestion (and believe me, I don't use 'suggestible' perjoritively - I see no reason to think that those prone to suggestibility are in any way mentally impaired) into a suggestible state.

In a very meaningful sense, I think these forms of music or chanting have evolved to be good at that. Replication with slight errors, with the more effective surviving seems, to me, to fit.

David B

[Alethias]

I'm wondering if it isn't a bit more than that.

Just wondering - but on the basis that in my TM fundy days, it was believed in my circle that listening to the vedas, even without understanding a word, had some sort of vague unspecified good things happening to your spirituality, or - in word - evolution.You're probably right that there is more to the intent. I just don't think that there is much more to the reality. I like your wording. I think music does invoke suggestibility. Secular musicians have done music that felt 'anointed' by christians. If the music invokes a suggestive state, and someone makes suggestions, manipulation has taken place. Suggestibility is not all bad. I listen to music styles called Trance and Ambient when I'm programming. It doesn't exactly make me open to suggestion, but it helps create an atmosphere in which clearthinking prevails, which is what I need when programming.

Interesting Observations, David. We approach it from different backgrounds, but come up with similar conclusions, worded differently.

Alethias

[Mughal]

Well here is result of another look at islam.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Responses/Osama/women.htm

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545098

[River]

very interesting.

Mullah Mughal.

I see that you enjoy presenting a cynical and pessimistic view of patriarchal cultures.. But whatever floats your boat. Its interesting but if you actually watched the video that I presented...you will see that ye' were mentioned ....in the speech....I kid ye' not...I believe it was within the first 10 minutes.

[barbos]

Why don't I see any drinking ? is it symposium or what ?

[dancer_rnb]

I think the topic is if it's pleasing to the ear to listen to the Qu'Ran being sung/recited. Not my preference for day-to-day fare, but it sounds kinda kool. I liked the sound of the second one better than the first. It does a better job of conveying a tone of wistfulness and longing, mixed with a sense of mystery and wonder.

Music is good at conveying hollow meaning. The ability to convey an emotional context with no attachment to reality is a great tool to manipulate and deceive people.

Probably not the analysis you'd hoped for, River, but it's what I honestly see in it.

Alethias.

I wonder if it would be as liakable if we understood the words.

I like Allegri's Miserere, but prefer it sung in Latin rather than English.
I find the psalm they use obnoxious.

Everybody goes on about how wonderful Handel's Messiah is, but the one time I went with a friend to hear it I thought I was going to have a seizure when they got to the part abour "beating them with an iron rod."

[JamesBannon]

Everybody goes on about how wonderful Handel's Messiah is, but the one time I went with a friend to hear it I thought I was going to have a seizure when they got to the part abour "beating them with an iron rod."
Have you ever tried singing the top soprano part in that? I used to sing lead when I was a boy. It's murderously hard!

[JamesBannon]

I'm wondering if it isn't a bit more than that....
I think you're right David. I've often argued that music isn't about what the composer means but about how it makes you feel - happy, sad, angry and so forth. Good music always makes me feel something even if it sets my teeth on edge.

[David B]

Until or unless I have any sort of even vaguely plausible reason to think that some sort of supernatural entity created the universe, leave alone presented his final teachings to some charismatic preacher, 10 minutes is too long.

David B

[River]

Until or unless I have any sort of even vaguely plausible reason to think that some sort of supernatural entity created the universe, leave alone presented his final teachings to some charismatic preacher, 10 minutes is too long.

David B

10 minutes might be long. But to tell you the truth, I give everyone an equal chance.

If there is a brilliant Secular Humanist orator. I would gladly listen to his speech

even if it were 20 hours long. Believe me, Hamza Yusuf is a brilliant, exceptional Muslim

scholar...and listening to his speeches are in no way a waste of time.

Hamza Yusuf is one of our finest. Please give him a chance.


-River

[David B]

10 minutes might be long. But to tell you the truth, I give everyone an equal chance.

If there is a brilliant Secular Humanist orator. I would gladly listen to his speech

even if it were 20 hours long. Believe me, Hamza Yusuf is a brilliant Muslim

scholar...and listening to his speeches are in no way a waste of time.

Hamza Yusuf is one our finest. Please give him a chance.


-River

If I do, will you do your best to respond to any criticism I may have?

David B

[River]

If I do, will you do your best to respond to any criticism I may have?

David B

I will try. But please realize that I am rarely on the internet during weekdays.

The hospital that I work at has restricted internet access and unfortunately

no wireless points.

I come home for the weekends....that is why you might see me at IIDB

friday-sunday...

[River]

Last but not least....

check out this AMAZING QUR'ANIC RECITATION by a KID !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7d37r3iUds

Wow,

children's capacity for language...

[Loren Pechtel]

Why is this in PD? Off to GRD.

[bookworm14]

I wonder if it would be as liakable if we understood the words.

"

Arabic speakers like it, not only because they understand it, but for its musicality. It really is quite beautiful, in a haunting sort of way. Too bad the Book of Mormon doesn't sound as good when chanted, but, then, musicality can't be the basis for validity of a religion, else Elvis really would be king.
bookworm14

[Imnotspecial]

Thank you River. I listened to the whole video and found it encouraging. Nice to see a modern looking Muslim.
The values he espouses are mostly humanist values.

[Chili]

The god of Bush is the god of love too. I think you deserve each other.

[Mughal]

Well, it will certainly be a good news if new muslim scholars of islam could accommodate old apostates of islam, otherwise it is all hot air.

http://www.muslim-canada.org/conductpt3ch6.html

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/103357.htm

http://bibleprobe.com/islamapostates.htm

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/065930.php

http://www.theage.com.au/news/World/Prince-fights-for-Muslim-apostates/2004/12/18/1103312783217.html%20onmousedown=return%20rwt(this,

[Dark_Man]

I don't even have to watch this video to know the flaw here... Moderate Muslims are great. I love to see them. Then the wacko's kill them off. Back to square one.

The day one of these guys puts forth a mesg and LOTS (I'm talking 2 3 4 million+) of Muslims ACTUALLY LISTEN, preferably ones in the middle east. Then give me a call. Us listening and praising him is meaningless.

[barbos]

The day one of these guys puts forth a mesg and LOTS (I'm talking 2 3 4 million+) of Muslims ACTUALLY LISTEN, preferably ones in the middle east. Then give me a call. Us listening and praising him is meaningless.
This guy will be fine, he didn't attack islamists, he practically gave excuse for their actions and blamed West/America/apostates for everything bad happening to muslims.

[Chili]

This guy will be fine, he didn't attack islamists, he practically gave excuse for their actions and blamed West/America/apostates for everything bad happening to muslims.

He's right about that but they both are children of rebellion and that is their soul nature.

[David B]

I will try. But please realize that I am rarely on the internet during weekdays.

The hospital that I work at has restricted internet access and unfortunately

no wireless points.

I come home for the weekends....that is why you might see me at IIDB

friday-sunday...

OK, I'll try to find time to listen to it and post my reactions by next weekend.

David B

[ELECTROGOD]

The "New Islam"? Was there possibly something wrong with the "Old Islam"?

[River]

OK, I'll try to find time to listen to it and post my reactions by next weekend.

David B

OK.

that would be great.

-River
Salaam

[Tuvar Ane Ingolenen]

This man is speaking in Dar ul Harb. How do we know it is not al-Taqiyya?

[Clivedurdle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamza_Yusuf

A 17 year old american son of professors has a nde and finds allah? Did not cat stevens also have a nde?

He then gets tutored by various groups who do not clearly show the roots of their thinking - sounds he might be going sufi but that is a heresy according to wahhabists.

Could we stop this joke of one islam? It is probably more riven than xianity!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/1266534.stm

[Clivedurdle]

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060424&s=kuntzel042406

New Islam?

During the Iran-Iraq War, the Ayatollah Khomeini imported 500,000 small plastic keys from Taiwan.

[Gawen]

Learn and support what Islam really is. That's all what this man is saying. But it's from HIS point of view. The guy is clueless. Totally blames America for Islamic/muslim faults (terrorism). Blames Denmark for Muslim criminal activity in that country and then says "We need to educate people what really Islam is". A real spin doctor. Joseph Goebbels would be proud.
Blame all misfortune on everyone but themselves. He condemns American foreign policy in middle east but never has a harsh word for terrorism groups.

[waked]

I am an arab ex-muslim and to tell you the truth i never enjoyed reding this Quran because it is very diffcult to understand and it is full with unsicentfic examples ,muslimes are very proud of their Quran ,they think that reading and listening will open the heart of the atheist to see the light of the only true religon.

[lenrek]

... He condemns American foreign policy in middle east but never has a harsh word for terrorism groups.

Maybe he think that, the terrorist groups are reactions against American (aggressive?) foreign policy?

If this is the case, then, it is expected, he will push the blames to the aggressor, not the defender.

[FatherMithras]

2) logic, reason, and evidence is what those with insurmountable naivety deny
Exactly. You religious folks really should cut that shit out huh? Maybe find a single scientific argument that supports your bizarreness.

[Mughal]

Live by the word die by the word.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20460113-601,00.html

[ELECTROGOD]

It sounds as if River is essentially trying to preach now via youtube videos.

[River]

To tell you the truth...

Hamza Yusuf Hanson actually tends to blame the current Muslim world more than the West ....(i.e try the clip " Islam & Democracy" with Hamza Yusuf....)

this is quite clear..if you watch more of his speeches.....very interesting

charismatic person...

[River]

It sounds as if River is essentially trying to preach now via youtube videos.

I DON'T PREACH.

I TEACH.

I have no intention to convert. Live and let live.

[Mughal]

Apostates killed.

http://www.forumpk.com/showthread.php?threadid=53837

[Rathpig]

Is Da'wah through You-Tube, Bid'a?

It would seem that internet video sites are a bit unclean and would be considered "innovation in worship" (Bid'a). I suspect if I searched You-Tube I could find images of swine and many other unclean things. This may even reach the level of Bid’a mukaffarah which would be a grave act on the part of a Muslim.

And by the way:

Doesn't "teach" and "preach" share an almost exact connotation? Teaching about religion is commonly called "preaching". Semantics is almost too funny when it comes to a discussion in the Islamist realm.

Nice to hear from you River,

Rathpig
Qabîluhu, Salla 'Llahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

[River]

And by the way:

Doesn't "teach" and "preach" share an almost exact connotation?

Rathpig
Qabîluhu, and self-proclaimed Bit$h of Abaddon (Lucifer)


NO.

otherwise you are always "preaching".

[River]

Is Da'wah through You-Tube, Bid'a?

I could find images of swine and many other unclean things.





There is nothing wrong with looking at images of pigs. Its people like you that make Islam look more superstitious than it is meant to be. I've done pig dissections in undergrad.

[barbos]

Learn and support what Islam really is. That's all what this man is saying. But it's from HIS point of view. The guy is clueless. Totally blames America for Islamic/muslim faults (terrorism). Blames Denmark for Muslim criminal activity in that country and then says "We need to educate people what really Islam is". A real spin doctor. Joseph Goebbels would be proud.
Blame all misfortune on everyone but themselves. He condemns American foreign policy in middle east but never has a harsh word for terrorism groups.

I couldn't agree more, man is absolutely clueless.

[Rathpig]

NO.

otherwise you are always "preaching".


My "preaching" holds no superstitious content. I support only reason and logic.

Your "preaching" is based on Medieval tribal mores, worship of the moon-god, and the deification of a pedophilic megalomanic bandit with a prophet complex (assuming he even existed).

I think the audience can decide who is "preaching".

[Rathpig]

There is nothing wrong with looking at images of pigs. Its people like you that make Islam look more superstitious than it is meant to be. I've done pig dissections in undergrad.

I think it is the Muslims and the Muslim Apologists who began the pig bans as they attempt to move Europe toward Sharia:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2818809.stm

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005450600,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5222972.stm

I don't think "people like" me could make Islam look anymore superstitious than it already presents itself.

(Such as editing my praise of your imaginary friend in my signature)

Rathpig
Qabîluhu, Salla 'Llahu 'alayhi wa sallam.

[River]

I think it is the Muslims and the Muslim Apologists who began the pig bans as they attempt to move Europe toward Sharia:


Rathpig
Qabîluhu, Abu-Dajjal


If you go by the book (i.e the Qur'an as Al-Furqan (the Criterion)) .....it is sinful to ingest the meat of pigs and porcine products ONLY...as well as the flesh of carrion.

All those pig bans ...and uh..."piglet" bans...are silly. Just...more proof that humanity as a whole is somewhat silly.

-River

[River]

My "preaching" holds no superstitious content. I support only reason and logic.




lol....like the last time you endorsed genocide.....pretty logical...by Rathpig standards...or perhaps you were being sarcastic and facetious......who
knows..who cares...

[River]

I think the audience can decide who is "preaching".


My audience is your audience.

If it weren't for me....you would NOT have existed.

Your antics...your mindset...and your proactive whereabouts...is

completely based on negating and undoing the works..and exposition of River....

you are in essence the Anti-River......

but if it were not for me ..you would have been a thing forgotten...

a remnant...and an appendage...nothing more...

-River

[Rathpig]

Abu-Dajjal

Ahh, you flatter me, greatly, in the larger meaning of the word: Dajjal.

(If it is the literal meaning you suggest then it is on you to prove truth.)


All those pig bans ...and uh..."piglet" bans...are silly. Just...more proof that humanity as whole is somewhat silly.

Yes, humans are a silly lot with their codified superstitions, worship of the imaginary, and singing silly songs from funny little foolish books.

Rathpig
Radiya 'Llahu 'anhu

[Rathpig]

...you are in essence the Anti-River...

Ahh, now we see you must take some time to flatter yourself. I can accept that you could be blinded by your fantasy. There is no harm in this part of your psychosis. The great harm lies in the superstitions you embrace and your Da'wah you spread much like the dung of swine.

R.,

[Mughal]

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3307624,00.html


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3307604,00.html


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52054

[kalchiran]

I have no intention to convert. Live and let live.

If this is Neo-Islam, then it is worth giving 10 minutes..

I mean, if muslims are going to live and let live in exchange of we litsening to their crap, I think, this is not a bad deal keeping in the mind the interest of humanity..

River, If "no intention to convert. Live and let live". is really a motto of Islam OR Neo-Islam,I am glad for you..

But the irony is many muslim historians and Quran Specialists, modern and medieval, do not agree with you... Also, majority of common Muslim, do not agree with you, if you really mean I have no intention to convert. Live and let live....

[Agnostheist]

On' this blessed month of Ramadan....I would like to share with you. I ask that every one here on this forum, the wiccans, the agnostics, and the anti-theists ...to reflect upon the meaning of the Last Testament.

You have forgotten the Book of Mormon. :wave:
bookworm14

Yeah the Book of Mormon is the last testament.

[waked]

I DON'T PREACH.

I TEACH.

I have no intention to convert. Live and let live.

You teach ? what for teaching is this ?
live and live was never a part from any religion.
the sword is the ultimate solution in Islam .
can you tell what is the punishment of any muslim who leaves the cult ?

[Howard]

I DON'T PREACH.

I TEACH. Teach what? Your goatherd fairy tales? Sorry, we’re not buying it. Crap is crap, no matter how it’s packaged.

Live and let live. Yeah, Muslims are famous for that

[Paul2]

I think you need to post these videos to a Muslim forum. I think they need to be reminded that their religion is a peaceful one.

But seriously, the Pope quotes about muslim faith being a violent faith, and how do the muslims respond? with violence. Oh the irony.

[waked]

moslims are the best when it comes to -teaching - hate , i dont want any one to tell me about that hate teaching because it is always an integrated part of the education system in our moslim countries .
so pls. stop calling islam a religion of peace .:mad:

[hinduwoman]

It is just that words mean different.
'Peace' in the muslim context really means 'submission to Allah's will' so it is right to call Islam the religion of peace.
Not their fault if ignorant Westerners think peace means --- peace.

[Agnostheist]

Islam's peace is like PROTECTION MONEY...there is peace so long as you pay tribute to the muslim world.

[Howard]

I DON'T PREACH. I TEACH.And we ignorant, unwashed heathens are ever so grateful that you would spend your valuable time imparting your wisdom to us. It must be a wonderful feeling to be so full of knowledge and truth that you feel compelled to share it with others.

One thing about it though, when you’re teaching you sure as hell aren’t learning.

(The only thing I’ve learned from you is that Muslims are even more brainwashed and irrational about their religion than I ever imagined. Hope you make a better doctor than a teacher.)

[River]

If this is Neo-Islam, then it is worth giving 10 minutes..




There is no New Islam. Islamic movements that are brought about by innovation i.e Taaliban (1993-1994) and the Wahabbi Movement (1792) are doomed for failure.

Thus, this so called Neo-Islam that you are speaking of....it is in essence a return to the essentials ...or the Islam promulgated by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

The Zaytuna Institute founded by Hamza Yusuf caters to principles found embedded in the Qur'an and hadith. It honours the scholarship that was once so prevalent within the Islamic Empire.

[River]

moslims are the best when it comes to -teaching - hate , i dont want any one to tell me about that hate teaching because it is always an integrated part of the education system in our moslim countries .
.:mad:


Please provide proof. Otherwise you will risk humiliating yourself.

[River]

You teach ? what for teaching is this ?
live and live was never a part from any religion.


Holy Qur'an [ Sura 109]

109:1
Say : O ye that reject Faith!

109:2
I worship not that which ye worship,

109:3
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109:4
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

109:5
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109:6
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

[River]

"Changing the Tide" is a breathtaking speech

by prominent Scholar of Islam, Hamza Yusuf Hanson. It has profound

political ramifications and embodies the essence of the Islamic Spirit ( Ruh)

The video is intellectual by nature and I am proud to show it you , today.

Please watch the entire video.....(some of the more interesting

parts are scattered through the middle and end)


take a look:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djf1a...elated&search=

This is an open discussion. All comments and thoughts are welcome.