Do you think the terms "geek-nerd" and high IQ Aspie are synomous?

[gnosis92]

Due to space constraints I shortened the title from

"Do you think the terms "geek-nerd" and high IQ Aspie are synomous?"

Do you think the terms "geek-nerd" and someone with a high IQ and also with Asperger syndrome are synomous? (Here I will abbreviate high IQ Asperger syndrome an "Aspie")

For the purposes of this discussion, I will not make a distinction between geeks and nerds. If you feel strongly about the matter, please visit here:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=183602

It would seem to me that everyone with a high IQ and with Asperger syndrome would also be called a geek-nerd. I would imagine most, if not all, geeks-nerds probably would be diagnosed with Aspie if they fit the classic picture of a geek-nerd (obviously there are shades of gray).

By "synonomous" I mean that the clinical presentation of a patient with high IQ and Asperger syndrome would match up with the stereotypical description of a geek-nerd. I am aware that Asperger syndrome is a DSM-IV term, whereas geek/nerd is not.

(A person with a full-blown clinical presentation of schizophrenia would be labelled "crazy" or "weird" or "insane" in non-clinical language).

[Anat]

I am surrounded by geeks. Some of them have excellent 'people skills' in addition to their more geeky talents.

[Cynic of Mammon]

One can be a Geek/nerd without having Asperger's syndrome + High IQ, whether or not trhe reverse is true is irrelevant: the terms are not synonymous.
It is also perhaps a tad distasteful to regard Geeks as having the same severe social dysfunctions as those with autistic-spectrum conditions...:frown:

[Godless Raven]

I have no idea what the definition of these words are, but my wife and I differentiate thus:

Geeks and Nerds look alike (using really bad generalizations and stereotypes of course) but the difference is that nerds are incredibly intelligent and geeks just look like nerds.

Like you might find a "geek" at a Star Trek convention and he may be able to speak Klingon and dress like a character from the show, but...his grades could still be very average.

I don't know, the whole idea is kind of silly, but that's how we define it (half jokingly) :D

[starling]

Geek/nerd were originally both words to describe not yourself, but other people. They identify that other person as strange, somehow not like yourself, or not like the majority of society. Since Aspies are rare, and markedly different in thinking than a normal person, yes you could call them all geeks and nerds. We don't eat live fish though, so geek is inaccurate. And nerd is specifically someone who has bad eyesight, and is also not rich enough to afford new glasses when they break. So no, most people with Asperger's Syndrome are not nerds or geeks. But they are nerds and geeks because you people keep generalizing those terms to encompass all people who aren't normal. One thing I can say for sure, using blurry terms like that is heck of confusing for someone with Asperger's.

[Morgana]

I'm a complete geek/nerd, but I don't have Asperger's. I have a cousin with Asperger's and he is not remotely geeky.

From the first Google hit on "asperger" (http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html):
Diagnostic Criteria For Asperger's Disorder
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia

[Astreja]

I suspect that I have Asperger's. I am definitely a geek with nerdish tendencies. But I don't see a 1:1 correlation.

[baron greenback]

Aspergers has the unfortunate problem of self-diagnosis. Most definitions of the disease admit that most sufferers are self-diagnosed.

And, of course, since people as a whole suck and will elicit sympathy for fun and profit every chance they get, and hypochondria reenforces this, there are, in my opinion, enough people claiming to have the disease that don't need any social leeway, to mess everything up for the people that do need some space and an environment where silly social cues (eye contact, body language, facial expression awareness) aren't the primary means of getting ahead in life.

So, if you actually have Asperger's, it's probably a good idea to keep that a secret for now, at least until Wired stops putting out "are you an Aspie" surveys right in the middle of their popular magazine. The word itself has already gotten a massive black eye from people trying to elicit sympathy, and it doesn't look like it's going to have a chance to heal any time soon.

As to the poll question, I think we can blame the "geek/nerd" association with Aspergers on the polls that have popped up on the internet and, again, in Wired magazine.

Please don't misconstrue this as me saying the polls are innacurate. The accuracy of the polls isn't what I'm bringing up. The availability and lack of accountability is.

[Idolator]

Aspergers has the unfortunate problem of self-diagnosis. Most definitions of the disease admit that most sufferers are self-diagnosed.
1) The only definitions of the disease that I've ever seen are the ones in the DSM and the ICD-10, and they make no mention of self-diagnosis. Even if other definitions exist, I'm not sure why they're relevant.
2) Self-diagnosis is not inherently inaccurate, although very few health professionals of any sort take it seriously. (Actually, I think the larger problem is that too many professionals are willing to disregard a patient's own opinions in favor of their self-evaluated professional 'expertise,' and this results in an unacceptable number of misdiagnoses.)

[Idolator]

So, if you actually have Asperger's, it's probably a good idea to keep that a secret for now, at least until Wired stops putting out "are you an Aspie" surveys right in the middle of their popular magazine. The word itself has already gotten a massive black eye from people trying to elicit sympathy, and it doesn't look like it's going to have a chance to heal any time soon.
Wired actually did that?

Fuck. I have a feeling the 'popular attention' this gets is going to be a blow to my career (not that Wired magazine has anything to do with anything I've ever done).

[Gooch's dad]

This isn't just an idea from the pop press, at least in my limited experience. I dated a woman briefly who is a PhD psychologist, and she tried implying that I might have Asperger's, simply because I was an engineer and had been one for many years.

As an educator, I get to see kids that actually *do* have Asperger's fairly regularly, and I'm astounded that someone would make the connection, that just because you're geeky/nerdy, you probably have Asperger's syndrome.

[Idolator]

This isn't just an idea from the pop press, at least in my limited experience. I dated a woman briefly who is a PhD psychologist, and she tried implying that I might have Asperger's, simply because I was an engineer and had been one for many years.
I suspect you're reading too much into it. You dated her; it's hard to even number the factors that can influence that kind of small talk.

Maybe she thought you were an Aspie because you had a tendency to ascribe other people's actions to a one-dimensional analysis of how they perceive you? :p
As an educator, I get to see kids that actually *do* have Asperger's fairly regularly, and I'm astounded that someone would make the connection, that just because you're geeky/nerdy, you probably have Asperger's syndrome.
Seconded. Particularly among high school teachers and administrators, I've noticed a tendency to describe every 'mal-adjusted'* student in similar terms.
*If my experience is any guide, high school teachers and administrators are congenitally incapable of using this term correctly.

[Berthold]

A young person is considered a nerd when his/her interests coincide with what adults find laudable and useful. The same talent and endurance, applied to fields of knowledge like football, car racing or pop music, is of course not nerdish.

[gnosis92]

I'm a complete geek/nerd, but I don't have Asperger's. I have a cousin with Asperger's and he is not remotely geeky.

From the first Google hit on "asperger" (http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html):B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

If he has an intense interest focus as described by DSM-IV for Aspie and a high IQ to master a subject well then how could he not be geeky?

[Morgana]

I think it depends on what you mean by geeky. He is a handsome, charming young man. His intense focus appears to be on music. He's a little bit off, but he really doesn't strike me as a nerd in the mold of all the nerds I went to grad school with.

In all my years of engineering, I have only met a couple of people I would suspect of being undiagnosed Aspergers. I think most geeks are a little bit along that spectrum, but there is a significant difference between having poor social skills and a clinical diagnosis of Aspergers, just like there is a huge difference between feeling low and a clinical diagnosis of depression.

A psych researcher I dated once said that everyone who studied clinical psychology would diagnose themselves with practically everything in the book. This isn't because they are hypochondriacs or looking for sympathy, but because psychological disorders are generally magnifications of normal human emotions and behaviors. You will always find some disorders that seem to describe your idiosyncracies, but most people don't have them at a clinical level.

[Anat]

If he has an intense interest focus as described by DSM-IV for Aspie and a high IQ to master a subject well then how could he not be geeky?

Note the previous line: "as manifested by at least one of the following:". Aspies don't all have a single subject of intense focus. A person who insists that quite a lot of things in hir everyday life have to be a certain way (and feels very bad when they aren't), repeats phrases verbatim (from stories, books, movies or other people's speech) not always exactly in context, speaks in monotone or an unusual intonation, misses others' facial expressions and body language, misses changes in the focus of attention of people s/he is interacting with, etc can be just as Aspie without necessarily being nerdy.

[Scifinerdgrl]

I live in Geek City, a.k.a. Washington, DC. I've met very few aspies in my life, but I can see how people might confuse them. One of my univ professors was some kind of aspie. He couldn't look people in the eye, spoke in a monotone, and was just different. But... he was brilliant in what he did. The rest of the faculty had more normal personalities.

FYI, I'm watching the Discovery channel show about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Peek Kim Peek, the "real Rain Man." His brain is missing the corpus colossum. He's a savant, has some disabilities, but he's not autistic.

[djrafikie]

I'm a complete geek (and proud) and have a high IQ. My crappy people skills are down to me spending more time with the internet/study/reading than with human beings. Who mostly annoy me because they are stupid and I can't kick-ban/ignore someone who is in the room with me.
Thats not aspergers, thats isolation through choice!

[Scifinerdgrl]

I'm a complete geek (and proud) and have a high IQ. My crappy people skills are down to me spending more time with the internet/study/reading than with human beings. Who mostly annoy me because they are stupid and I can't kick-ban/ignore someone who is in the room with me.
Thats not aspergers, thats isolation through choice!

I thought joining mensa would be fun but I hate mensa parties as much as every other kind. Blech. I need to know people pretty well & find people who share my interests to have a good time. Last week I went to Philadelphia & had a good time here:

http://www.fsgp.org/asparty.html

[djrafikie]

I thought joining mensa would be fun but I hate mensa parties as much as every other kind. Blech. I need to know people pretty well & find people who share my interests to have a good time. Last week I went to Philadelphia & had a good time here:

http://www.fsgp.org/asparty.html

hehe! That looks pretty cool! I generally find that I am social enough when blind drunk.. can't remember any of it the next day, but I generally count that as a blessing. I joined mensa, but they bored me, they were all back patty and lovey dovey are'nt we greaty ....
I was collapsed in the corner with a copy of the new D&D revised rules wondering when the wine would come out.

[profplum]

Well, one could take the Nerd, Geek, or Dork Test (http://okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=9935030990046738815) on OKCupid to see if one is any of the three (or a combination, or "normal"). FWIW, I test out as the "Modern, Cool Nerd"--95% Nerd, 52% Geek, 34% Dork.

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, one could take the Nerd, Geek, or Dork Test (http://okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=9935030990046738815) on OKCupid to see if one is any of the three (or a combination, or "normal"). FWIW, I test out as the "Modern, Cool Nerd"--95% Nerd, 52% Geek, 34% Dork.

73 % Nerd, 21% Geek, 56% Dork here.

You scored higher than 99% on nerdiness
You scored higher than 99% on geekosity
You scored higher than 99% on dork points

[Christina Mirabilis]

60 % Nerd, 4% Geek, 26% Dork , and all those 99% too.

I can't decide if I'm proud of that or not.

[Scifinerdgrl]

A Nerd is someone who is passionate about learning/being smart/academia.
A Geek is someone who is passionate about some particular area or subject, often an obscure or difficult one.
A Dork is someone who has difficulty with common social expectations/interactions.
You scored better than half in all three, earning you the title of: Outcast Genius.

Outcast geniuses usually are bright enough to understand what society wants of them, and they just don't care! They are highly intelligent and passionate about the things they know are *truly* important in the world. Typically, this does not include sports, cars or make-up, but it can on occassion (and if it does then they know more than all of their friends combined in that subject).

Outcast geniuses can be very lonely, due to their being outcast from most normal groups and too smart for the room among many other types of dorks and geeks, but they can also be the types to eventually rule the world, ala Bill Gates, the prototypical Outcast Genius.

HAHAHAHA!!! Where's my millions?!?!

[Morgana]

91% Nerd, 52% Geek, 34% Dork

That's a little scary, I think.

ETA: That makes me a "Modern, Cool Nerd".

How you compared to other people your age and gender:
You scored higher than 98% on nerdiness
You scored higher than 81% on geekosity
You scored higher than 58% on dork points

There must be some odd correlations with age and gender.

[Chicken Girl]

I'm also a modern, cool nerd: 73 % Nerd, 60% Geek, 34% Dork