Circumcision and Moses' foot

[douglas]

Please help a novice bible explorer... :notworthy:

There's a discussion on the carm.org site about circumcision, and a quote was made from Exodus 4:

24 At a lodging place on the way, the LORD met {Moses} [b] and was about to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son's foreskin and touched {Moses'} feet with it. [c] "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me," she said. 26 So the LORD let him alone. (At that time she said "bridegroom of blood," referring to circumcision.)

My reading of this is that Moses fell ill during his Journey to Egypt, almost died (from maybe an infection in his feet?), but when his son's peepee parts were touched to his feet he magically recovered.

Is this an accurate interpretation of this, or is there some other explanation? For example, did other cultures ascribe some healing power to a child's foreskin? I've searched the archive and internet but couldn't find anything that satisfies my feeling that I'm missing something here.

[Sarpedon]

Or it could mean that God was angry at moses for marrying a canaanite, and her circumcision of her son confirmed herself and the son as israelites.

This is one of the weird bible moments. I'd also like to hear your explanation of the naked man who followed after jesus was arrested.

[Anat]

Moses broke the law by delaying the circumcision of his son, maybe because he feared for his health during the journey. This is a sign of doubt, not a good idea for someone who is about to confront Pharoah in God's name. For this Moses was punished. Tziporah took the matters in her hands to make things right, thus Moses was spared.

There is no point seeking a naturalistic or quasi-naturalistic explanation for Moses' illness and recovery, as the story is a legend that is meant to teach a moral - the one moral of TaNaKh - the fate of Israel is tied intimately with obedience to the Law. It isn't a story about beliefs regarding folk medicine.

But if you want to make more of "and cast it at his feet" remember that often when TaNaKh talks about feet, legs, thighs they can be euphemisms for male genitalia, so it could be a case of 'curing like with like', which is common in folklore in many cultures.

[Anat]

This story serves the basis of the halachic ruling that while the responsibility for circumcising an infant is on the father, if he neglects the duty it transfers to the mother.

BTW the root het-taw-nun which in Hebrew has to do with wedding in Arabic is related to circumcision.

[douglas]

This is one of the weird bible moments. I'd also like to hear your explanation of the naked man who followed after jesus was arrested.

I have none. This has always puzzled me. I've wondered if this was Mark's symbolic way of showing his disgust with how the early Christians scattered and shed any knowledge of Jesus once he was arrested, but I have no sources to back me up on this other than my logic, which (as my wife will attest to) is highly suspect at times.

And please don't read anything into the fact that I'm on the carm.org website. I enjoy reading all sides and opinions. (It's kind of a Yin Yang thing)

[douglas]

But if you want to make more of "and cast it at his feet" remember that often when TaNaKh talks about feet, legs, thighs they can be euphemisms for male genitalia, so it could be a case of 'curing like with like', which is common in folklore in many cultures.

This helps. I'm struck by the odd visual of Moses' wife bending down and touching her child's bloody foreskin to her husbands feet. As a parent struggling to raise and educate four kids, I can understand how oddity can sometimes aide the memorization process, but from what you've said, this act would not have sounded "odd" to the original intended hearers of this story.

[Sarpedon]

And please don't read anything into the fact that I'm on the carm.org website. I enjoy reading all sides and opinions.

I don't know what the carm.org website is. I've just always wondered about that incident and wondered if you had any thoughts.

My friend and I once joked about starting a cult called the 'naked swordsmen' by using that incident and the bit where Jesus commands his disciples to sell their clothes to buy swords.

[douglas]

I don't know what the carm.org website is.

"Christian Apologetics Research Ministery." Compared to the posters on II, most posters knowledge of Biblical criticism is ...um... shallow, but it's fun to read the wacked out opinions that are expressed. It's a bit like slowing down to look at a car wreck on a highway - I enjoy looking but feel strangely dirty after the fact.:D

[fta]

I'd also like to hear your explanation of the naked man who followed after jesus was arrested.

If you accept Morton Smith's "Secret Gospel of Mark" then the naked youth is probably supposed to be Lazarus.

For those who think Secret Mark is bogus, some conservative scholars have contended that the mysterious streaker was St Mark himself, making an anonymous cameo appearance in his gospel.

remember that often when TaNaKh talks about feet, legs, thighs they can be euphemisms for male genitalia

Hmm, puts an interesting spin on the story of Ruth throwing herself at Boaz's feet, huh?:devil1:

[Anat]

Hmm, puts an interesting spin on the story of Ruth throwing herself at Boaz's feet, huh?
Indeed, chapter 3 of Ruth is saturated with sexual language. Naomi is basically pimping Ruth to Boaz,

Wash thyself therefore, and anoint thee, and put thy raiment upon thee, and get thee down to the threshing-floor; but make not thyself known unto the man, until he shall have done eating and drinking. And it shall be, when he lieth down, that thou shalt mark the place where he shall lie, and thou shalt go in, and uncover his feet, and lay thee down; and he will tell thee what thou shalt do.'

and the fact that there is a closer kinsman who might have ended up marrying Ruth does nothing to deter Boaz from making the most of the situation.
Tarry this night, and it shall be in the morning, that if he will perform unto thee the part of a kinsman, well; let him do the kinsman's part; but if he be not willing to do the part of a kinsman to thee, then will I do the part of a kinsman to thee, as the LORD liveth; lie down until the morning.' And she lay at his feet until the morning; and she rose up before one could discern another. For he said: 'Let it not be known that the woman came to the threshing-floor.'

Another sexual expression is found in Ruth's marriage proposal to Boaz:
And he said: 'Who art thou?' And she answered: 'I am Ruth thine handmaid; spread therefore thy skirt over thy handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman.'

[yummyfur]

Or it could mean that God was angry at moses for marrying a canaanite, and her circumcision of her son confirmed herself and the son as israelites.

This is one of the weird bible moments. I'd also like to hear your explanation of the naked man who followed after jesus was arrested.

Not to get too offtopic, but it seems to me that the naked youth/slave in Mark, is just put in, to have a reference to Amos 2:16;

"And the strong one in his heart among the mighty shall run away naked in that day, declares the Lord"

You'll notice just a couple of verses earlier the mentioning of the High Priests slave having his ear cut off by a sword by one of Jesus's followers, very strange thing to do, but it also is a reference to Amos, specifically 3:12, though you need to read the Septuagint version, which unlike the Hebrew mentions a Damascus high priest instead of a couch

"Thus says the Lord, Just as the shepherd draws out from the lion's mouth a couple of legs or a piece of an ear, So will the sons of Israel dwelling in Samaria be drawn out -- With the corner of a bed and a Damascus couch!"(Septuagint has "opposing nation and a Damascus High Priest" instead of the weird bed stuff)

The Greek word used in the Septuagint for "draw out" here is Spao, which can also mean to draw a sword. The Hebrew wouldn't support such an interpretation though. Also the Greek word used for mouth, Stoma, can also mean the edge of a sword, again this only works in Greek not in the Hebrew.

One begins to wonder if in an older version of the gospel, it said Slavish High Priest instead of slave of the High Priest, as this would fit with a possible meaning of Damascus High Priest. Also it is interesting to note that cutting off the right ear of a High Priest would be pretty symbolic, as this is one of the parts of the body along with the right thumb and right bigtoe that are sanctified with blood when someone is made a preist. Being disfigured at all would disqualifiy someone as a High Priest, especially in his sanctified ear. Though it's possible the slave is only meant to be a proxy High Priest, as the young man(or servant) might be a proxy Jesus, escaping death (the Sidon).

And bringing us back to the whole Moses's foot thing, it's clear that the right big toe is smeared with sacrificial blood when someone is made a priest, it's possible this refers back to said Moses event, or maybe some older tradition that both the making of a priest and this circumcision event reference. This is also done in the guilt offering for the leperous, along with the right ear and thumb, so maybe there is a reference in the Moses story to this becoming a type of guilt offering, thus sparing Moses, and then the OP might be correct in that Moses was ill in some way.