Why is belief in the wrong god better than no god?

[steamer]

If you are a Muslim, Jew or Atheist, most Christians believe you are going to hell unless you get "saved" by subscribing to whatever particular Christian sect they belong to. Note that neither the Jewish or Muslim god is triune. The law of identity says that a thing cannot be both triune and not triune, so the god of the Jews and Muslims cannot be the god of Christians, similar, but not the same.

We are all equally condemned in the imagined eyes of the god the Christians imagine and in the actual eyes of the Christians themselves. We are condemned and we deserve to be condemned according to Christians.

Curiously, Christians tend to believe that faith in the wrong god is somehow better than faith in no god. This suggests to me something merely mercantile. Suppose two companies are selling milk. One may claim that they are better than the other, but they will never claim milk isn't good.

The largest companies in the world are are those that sell religious goods and services. You may trust that these conglomerates have your best interests in mind or you can trust that they have their own best interests in mind.

Atheists aren't merely the competition selling a similar product like Marlboro or Pall Mall. Atheists are like the group telling you smoking is bad.

This all makes perfect sense from a business point of view, but from a theological point of view it makes very little sense that Christians ought to approve of faith in the wrong god more than faith in no god.

[reddhedd]

If you believe in a god, even the wrong one, you believe you will be sorely punished in the after life for wrongdoings in this life. Therefore, a muslim is more trustworthy (to a christian) than an atheist. Hell, even a jew is more trustworthy to a muslim than an atheist is!
Sucks, but that's the only thing I can think of that accounts for it. We have no holy overlord...therefore we are not afraid to do all those awful things (some) theists fear to do. We make them quake in their boots! :D

[JustBlazed]

God is bad, eeemmm kay?

Yes, it is all about the fear factor that atheists lack in regards to punishment from God. I guess the religious in the world form their own little clique in that regard.

[sharon45]

Curiously, Christians tend to believe that faith in the wrong god is somehow better than faith in no god.I don't see how this is so reliable because they are instead obviously believing they have faith in not merely the right god, but the only god.

This suggests to me something merely mercantile. Suppose two companies are selling milk. One may claim that they are better than the other, but they will never claim milk isn't good.No, not in this case, but between supposed companies in the selling of god, they will say that the other has no real god to sell and that they do.

Atheists aren't merely the competition selling a similar product like Marlboro or Pall Mall. Atheists are like the group telling you smoking is bad.Yes, some atheists. While there are atheists that support religion just like there are non-smokers that gave up smoking for health reasons that have absolutely no problem with others smoking.

This all makes perfect sense from a business point of view, but from a theological point of view it makes very little sense that Christians ought to approve of faith in the wrong god more than faith in no god.I think that compared to atheists, theists of all beliefs do try to stick together somewhat because they are afraid even though they are seated right now clearly in the extreme majority. But as you stated, there are always those pesky atheists that not only don't smoke, but don't think others should smoke either.

[Stumpjumper]

If you are a Muslim, Jew or Atheist, most Christians believe you are going to hell unless you get "saved" by subscribing to whatever particular Christian sect they belong to. Note that neither the Jewish or Muslim god is triune. The law of identity says that a thing cannot be both triune and not triune, so the god of the Jews and Muslims cannot be the god of Christians, similar, but not the same.

We are all equally condemned in the imagined eyes of the god the Christians imagine and in the actual eyes of the Christians themselves. We are condemned and we deserve to be condemned according to Christians.

Curiously, Christians tend to believe that faith in the wrong god is somehow better than faith in no god. This suggests to me something merely mercantile. Suppose two companies are selling milk. One may claim that they are better than the other, but they will never claim milk isn't good.

The largest companies in the world are are those that sell religious goods and services. You may trust that these conglomerates have your best interests in mind or you can trust that they have their own best interests in mind.

Atheists aren't merely the competition selling a similar product like Marlboro or Pall Mall. Atheists are like the group telling you smoking is bad.

This all makes perfect sense from a business point of view, but from a theological point of view it makes very little sense that Christians ought to approve of faith in the wrong god more than faith in no god.

I think you have to look at it from the point of view of an underlying foundational belief. All theists believe in the existence of a God or gods so right there you have a mutual belief which can act in a unifying way...

I wish more Christians and othr theists were a little more pluralistic in their outlook to be honest and I tend to think atheists would too.

Guess not :Cheeky:

Also, you need to make the distinction between different beliefs about God and beliefs in a different God. All Abrahamics,in essence, believe in the same God of revelation they just have different beliefs about that God.

Additionally you seem to be subscribing to a juridical view of Christian theology which does not apply to all Christian views of God's relationship with the world...

[Doug Shaver]

but from a theological point of view it makes very little sense that Christians ought to approve of faith in the wrong god more than faith in no god.
It makes sense to me. From the theological point of view, it's all starts with having faith -- believing what you're told to believe rather than making up your own mind. A believer in the wrong god is at least demonstrating a willingness to take orders from somebody, whereas atheists aren't taking orders from anybody.

[steamer]

Also, you need to make the distinction between different beliefs about God and beliefs in a different God. All Abrahamics,in essence, believe in the same God of revelation they just have different beliefs about that God.

One god has a son, another does not. The same god cannot have a son while not having a son.

The Jews and the Muslims could be said to have different beliefs about the same god. The Christian god though is not a Christian god unless that god has a son.

Additionally you seem to be subscribing to a juridical view of Christian theology which does not apply to all Christian views of God's relationship with the world...

I don't believe my life will be long enough to address all the different Christian theologies. There seems to be as many individual theologies as their are Christians.

[john_v_h]

Curiously, Christians tend to believe that faith in the wrong god is somehow better than faith in no god.That's because any faith is better than no faith. As long as people are credulous there is a chance of turning their irrational beliefs in the "right" direction. Turning away from faith and becoming rational is a far greater threat to a religion (and all religion) than having the "wrong" faith.

[Von Zipper]

Very interesting question.

I'd say that it's because theists recognise common ground with each other in terms of the kinds of thinking which support their conclusions, even where those conclusions are significantly different in terms of details. They're all appealing to the same kinds of vague, internally experienced phenomena, and the same intuition that there's a big, fat universe in plain view that somebody must surely have put there deliberately for us to frolic around in.

Moreover, take the atheists out of the room and the theists will argue just as vehemently with each other.

[jdlongmire]

You know - I was going to weigh in, until I realized it was such a HUGE strawman that I decided not to waste my breath...so I did a drive-by, ta!

-pax-

-JD

note (http://tinyurl.com/y7s2m4)

[Von Zipper]

You know - I was going to weigh in, until I realized it was such a HUGE strawman that I decided not to waste my breath...so I did a drive-by, ta!

You seem to have accidentally posted your internal monologue.

[Kassiana]

Why is belief in the wrong god better than no god?
I see no evidence that it is. As a Pagan, I get it from both ends, the atheists who think I'm stupid to believe in a theistic religion and the theists who think I'm stupid to believe in my particular religion.

And to clarify, I, like many Pagans, don't believe anyone will be punished in the afterlife. I'm not even sure there is an afterlife.

[angela2]

Why is belief in the wrong god better than no god?
How do you tell the difference between the right god and the wrong god?

[steamer]

How do you tell the difference between the right god and the wrong god?

I'm afraid we must rely on theist to tell us this. To us, one invisible, undetectable god looks much the same as another and both look to be mere descriptions in a book.

[steamer]

Moreover, take the atheists out of the room and the theists will argue just as vehemently with each other.

That's a good point. Still there does seem to be a pecking order to the thing. I think the Christian theistic solidarity goes something like

Christian
Muslim
Jew
Pagan
Atheist

Muslims at least recognize Jesus as special, Jews at least recognize Jesus as a cult leader, Pagans I think are slightly higher on the ladder than atheists, but probably not much.

[Berthold]

Some Christians court the Dalai Lama, but it is also heard that Buddhism is very different from or opposed to Christianity.

[Stumpjumper]

One god has a son, another does not. The same god cannot have a son while not having a son.

The Jews and the Muslims could be said to have different beliefs about the same god. The Christian god though is not a Christian god unless that god has a son.

Is that different beliefs about God or beliefs in different Gods?

I don't believe my life will be long enough to address all the different Christian theologies. There seems to be as many individual theologies as their are Christians.

Theology is an art not a natural science... That being said, a non juridical view of God's reation to the world pre-dates the modern and western juridical view....

[angela2]

I'm afraid we must rely on theist to tell us this. To us, one invisible, undetectable god looks much the same as another and both look to be mere descriptions in a book.
So what benefit do you expect to get from this thread?

[angela2]

That's a good point. Still there does seem to be a pecking order to the thing. I think the Christian theistic solidarity goes something like

Christian
Muslim
Jew
Pagan
Atheist

Muslims at least recognize Jesus as special, Jews at least recognize Jesus as a cult leader, Pagans I think are slightly higher on the ladder than atheists, but probably not much.
You guys are beating a dead horse. No Christian here is going to rank religions for you, unless you hook a fundie.

Oh, BTW, and argument can be make that the first three worship the same God.

You aren't perhaps trying to create divisiveness where none exists, are you? Oh, no, heavens, that would be beneath you. :D

[post tenebras lux]

How do you tell the difference between the right god and the wrong god?Why not be nice angela2 and tell us?

How do you - anglea2 - tell the difference between the right god and the wrong god? :huh:

Or don't you know if you're worshipping the 'wrong' god?

[steamer]

Oh, BTW, and argument can be make that the first three worship the same God.

No argument can be made that Christians worship a god that has no son. The god(s) of the Muslims and Jews has no son.

[angela2]

Why not be nice angela2 and tell us?

How do you - anglea2 - tell the difference between the right god and the wrong god? :huh:

Or don't you know if you're worshipping the 'wrong' god?
Oh cheez. One more time.

How do I tell? Scripture, tradition, faith and reason

[angela2]

No argument can be made that Christians worship a god that has no son. The god(s) of the Muslims and Jews has no son.
If you say so. But last I heard all three religions were monotheistic.

See, that's why you gotta understand the Trinity. :D

[angela2]

Is that different beliefs about God or beliefs in different Gods?



Theology is an art not a natural science... That being said, a non juridical view of God's reation to the world pre-dates the modern and western juridical view....
Stump, will ya stop using them big words? :D

[steamer]

If you say so. But last I heard all three religions were monotheistic.

Could any Chrisitian, including yourself, worship a god that does not have a son?


See, that's why you gotta understand the Trinity. :D

The Gods of the Muslims and Jews is not triune. No Jesus, No Ghost.

[angela2]

The Gods of the Muslims and Jews is not triune. No Jesus, No Ghost.
That's true, but Christianity is also monotheistic. There's that Trinity thing again.

[steamer]

That's true, but Christianity is also monotheistic. There's that Trinity thing again.

So what?

[sharon45]

That's true, but Christianity is also monotheistic. There's that Trinity thing again.The trinity is a logical impossibility and that is made clear enough by watching jesus and its defenders twist in the wind on this very subject.

There is nothing in the OT that even remotely hints of a belief in the trinity, yet christians try and pretend they are still worshipping the very same god as the Jews.

[Doug Shaver]

How do I tell? Scripture, tradition, faith and reason
And in that order, it would seem.

[angela2]

And in that order, it would seem.
Actually it's a circle. It's called the hermeneutic circle.

[angela2]

The trinity is a logical impossibility
Shall we take your word on that or do you want to show your work?

There is nothing in the OT that even remotely hints of a belief in the trinity, yet christians try and pretend they are still worshipping the very same god as the Jews.
Explain to me why OT needs to hint at the Trinity for Christians and Jews to worship the same God.

[angela2]

So what?
So what so what? :D

[steamer]

So what so what? :D

Alright Angela, You win. Your god is Allah. He has no son, is not triune and if you worship him you are not a Christian. Do I understand your claim correctly? You are a Muslim?

[angela2]

Alright Angela, You win. Your god is Allah. He has no son, is not triune and if you worship him you are not a Christian. Do I understand your claim correctly? You are a Muslim?
Of course. Haven't you noticed? :D And my dog is a Satanist.

I'm so glad I won.

[sharon45]

Shall we take your word on that or do you want to show your work?Did I make the statement before the NT and the idea of the trinity was formed? No. Is the trinity idea in the NT? No. Seems like the assertion of the trinity hasn't yet been answered for because I have seen the supposed "work" trying to support it and those are merely rash attempts, not answers.

If you want the real work that the trinity is a logical impossibility, consult the NT, otherwise it remains completely unsupported conjecture.Explain to me why OT needs to hint at the Trinity for Christians and Jews to worship the same God.Because instead the OT refutes the idea. God is one and never changes is clearly announced many times.