American Youth Abandoning The Church?

[moonwatcher]

This is from an article in (I think) the New York Times as quoted in the blog Daylight Atheism:

Despite their packed megachurches, their political clout and their increasing visibility on the national stage, evangelical Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves.

At an unusual series of leadership meetings in 44 cities this fall, more than 6,000 pastors are hearing dire forecasts from some of the biggest names in the conservative evangelical movement.

Their alarm has been stoked by a highly suspect claim that if current trends continue, only 4 percent of teenagers will be "Bible-believing Christians" as adults. That would be a sharp decline compared with 35 percent of the current generation of baby boomers, and before that, 65 percent of the World War II generation.

While some critics say the statistics are greatly exaggerated (one evangelical magazine for youth ministers dubbed it "the 4 percent panic attack"), there is widespread consensus among evangelical leaders that they risk losing their teenagers.

…The board of the National Association of Evangelicals, an umbrella group representing 60 denominations and dozens of ministries, passed a resolution this year deploring "the epidemic of young people leaving the evangelical church."

Do you think this large abandonment of christianity by american teens is really occurring and, if so, why?

[Pastor's Nightmare]

Evangelicals are alarmists. So, the statistics are exaggerated, but yes they are leaving. Why? Popular culture has an educating effect in the social and psychological spheres. This causes dedoctrination. Association with non-Christians. This causes dedoctrination.

[Donkeykong]

We should be so lucky!

[loprogression]

I'd like to see the source of these pastors' statistics.

Seems plausible I guess. Pastor's Nightmare sums that up quite well.

[Taylor B.]

Just from my experience at an extremely religious and conservative public university (Texas A&M), this does seem to be the case, at least to some extent. I haven't figured out exactly what's causing it, but more and more frequently I meet people who are atheists. Not just at the Atheist and Agnostic Student Group meetings either. People I talk to randomly on the bus, in classes, all over the place. I am beginning to assume that most people my age (I'm 20) who aren't completely retarded, brainwashed, or sheltered are at least starting to realize that maybe this whole God thing isn't all it's cracked up to be. Our parents generation seemed to feel that it was the establishment that corrupted the beauty of religion (they were hippies after all), but we have to deal with the fall out of that, and are perhaps digging a little deeper. It also doesn't hurt that they make fun of religion on TV constantly.

[moonwatcher]

Living in a college town (in the bible belt) I also find myself encountering more young people (18 to 25) who are openly skeptical of religion. More so than I noticed a decade ago.

And then there's the fact that atheist books like The God Delusion and several others have recently been bestsellers in the U.S. Which is certainly not something that was happening in the past.

Backlash against the growing power of the Religious Right? Or against religion in general following 9/11? Something else entirely? I don't know.

[clark]

A buddy of mine teaches computer science at a high school. He says in many circles it's "cool" to be an atheist and sees a lot of skepticism.

Hope springs eternal...

THOUGHTfully Yours,
Clark

[deblb8889]

Personally, I think the internet is responsible. Many kids (especially those who live in the bible belt) are being exposed to alternative ideas and information that could be withheld from them before.

I was raised in a very religious family and didn't even know what the word "atheist" meant until I was 16 or 17. I had no access to other points of view. When I hit the curious stage I had to check out a book on Paganism from the library and then deal with my parents when they found out. Today's teens don't have to deal with that. They hop online and have all kinds of ideas right in front of them, a click away. Search engines will pull up results that are similar to what they are looking for leading to even more exposure.

It is a lot easier to get someone to believe what you want when they don't have access to any other belief system.

[lillitigator88]

I believe that teenagers are abandoning the church because of the pressures it puts on its believers. Where I live most teenagers do not think that it is cool to be athiest they just don't see the point in believing in something that is like santa clause. Teenagers notice that most adults that do go to church sin all the time. If they were so afraid of going to hell , wouldn't they try and watch their behavior. What if they died on a saturday? I used to work at a restaurant and I would always end up working on sunday afternoons"the church rush". They were so rude and agravated at the world in general after church. I had the idea that since it was sunday they had to find all new sins to create in order to have a reason to go back next sunday.

[scarletpaint]

The thought of youth abandoning the church, is a great thought indeed. I dont know if it is exactly true or not. I would not be to surprised if it was. Thanks to the easy access of websites like this one, the average youth can become exposed to ideas that their parents would never allow.

[jaded_revenge]

Popular culture is also leading to people enjoying themselves more.
When the religous nutters come out and say that music, film, magazines and novels that don't have god in them are evil, people are forced to make choices.

[stressa]

Just from my experience at an extremely religious and conservative public university (Texas A&M), this does seem to be the case, at least to some extent.

Gig 'em! When I graduated from TAMU mumblemumble-teen years ago, it was the same creepily conservative, almost fascist place you seem to be experiencing...but I still didn't have much trouble finding the liberal, atheistic minority, and I didn't belong to any organizations other than the French Club (well, I was on the literary magazine staff, but they kicked us off campus for printing a poem with the word "cunt" in it, so we started our own literary magazine, but I digress...). So I think we tend to think in generalities...A&M is conservative, the Bible Belt, etc., and forget that there have always been youths (and others) who don't fit the stereotype. I didn't think I'd be happy at A&M, but I was...once I found the right crowd. It's just that with the Internet and the increasingly tolerant media, it is getting easier for kids to find each other.

[ApostateAbe]

I am a young person who left the Christian church. Here are my thoughts:

Liberalism. Young people are more likely to be liberal than old people.
Islam. It is in the news every day and the comparisons are inescapable.
The Internet. Rejection of Christianity happens even on Christian forums. Atheist activists are more active on the Internet than anywhere else.
Rebellion. An old principle.
Higher education. College attendance is greater than it has ever been.

[Russell's Teapot]

What are the chances of more Jesus Camp-like locations springing up as a result of this? They have to keep the meme alive somehow, and the best way is to get them young. Maybe they won't even care that much, considering the Rapture is happening in the next 5-10 years ;)

[Aikanaro]

Hmm - interesting. I thought that America was getting more religious rather than less. I guess it's just spreading a little slower there than it has been in the rest of the world...

[Proxima Centauri]

Well a few years ago I kept reading here about freethinkers feeling increasingly threatened by all those crazy fundies. All those crazy fundies kept voting for Pressie Bush. Well Iraq went pear shaped and Dubbiya isn’t so popular any more. Perhaps Christianity isn’t so popular either.
There will certainly be differences between different parts of the US. Some in the Bible Belt may still have growing problems.

[Godless Dave]

It also doesn't hurt that they make fun of religion on TV constantly.

Wow, what TV shows are you watching where they make fun of religion? The only ones I watch that do so are Family Guy, South Park, and occasionally the Simpsons.

[JohNeo]

We should be so lucky!

My initial thought, verbatim!

But, as PastorsNightmare said, evangelicals are alarmists. They need something to be frightened of, their strength is persecution, and they need a rally cry to get parents to further shelter and/or indoctrinate their young children.

I doubt that after 2,000 years that it's going to go away anytime soon--or soon enough, unfortunately.

JN

[Dargo]

I'd point out that a lot of Christians drop out of church after they graduate from high school only to get involved again when they start having families. I had some ex-Sunday school teachers who fell into this category. Of course, the internet has increased the odds that they will encounter information highly damaging to Christianity during their nonreligious period, so we can hope this trend will not be a simple phase.

[xxx]

Well a few years ago I kept reading here about freethinkers feeling increasingly threatened by all those crazy fundies. All those crazy fundies kept voting for Pressie Bush. Well Iraq went pear shaped and Dubbiya isn’t so popular any more. Perhaps Christianity isn’t so popular either.
There will certainly be differences between different parts of the US. Some in the Bible Belt may still have growing problems.


That's what happens when you use religion to justify politics. In order to undermine your opponent, you must undermine their justification for their stances. If you use religion, it will be attacked.

[JustBlazed]

Wow, what TV shows are you watching where they make fun of religion? The only ones I watch that do so are Family Guy, South Park, and occasionally the Simpsons.He had to have been talking about "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report" also. I wouldn't say they make fun of religion per se....but defintetely point out humorous inconsistencies as well as the nutjobs that promote Christian Fundamentalism.

-JB

Respectfully abadoned the church in 1998

[Godless Dave]

But, as PastorsNightmare said, evangelicals are alarmists. They need something to be frightened of, their strength is persecution, and they need a rally cry to get parents to further shelter and/or indoctrinate their young children.

I doubt that after 2,000 years that it's going to go away anytime soon--or soon enough, unfortunately.

Well evangelical Christianity isn't all of Christianity. I'm pretty sure Christianity will still be here 2,000 years from now, but the form of evangelicalism we see now? Maybe not. Religions have died out before.

I think one thing that is hurting them is their tendency to start promoting wackier and wackier doctrines; eventually they get so ridiculous as to alienate some believers. It seems to me that extreme doctrines like opposition to trick-or-treating and replacing dating with "courtship" only recently became widespread among fundies.

[Dargo]

. It seems to me that extreme doctrines like opposition to trick-or-treating and replacing dating with "courtship" only recently became widespread among fundies.

Actually, I can remember my church (Southern Baptist) being opposed to trick or treating when I was still in elementary school in the early 80's. They had an activity for kids on Halloween which included some games and bobbing for apples but no costumes. It just wasn't the same.

[nancynancy]

I would be so glad if the tide were really turning against religion. It seems too good to be true.

[Qam1]

Two relevant links

From Barna
Twentysomethings Struggle to Find Their Place in Christian Churches (http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=149)

Some highlights

*Many twentysomethings are reversing course after having been active church attenders during their teenage years. As teenagers, more than half attended church each week and more than 4 out of 5 (81%) had ever gone to a Christian church. That means that from high school graduation to age 25 there is a 42% drop in weekly church attendance and a 58% decline from age 18 to age 29. That represents about 8,000,000 twentysomethings alive today who were active church-goers as teenagers but who will no longer be active in a church by their 30th birthday......**

*The research points out that young adults are also re-thinking the depth of their commitment to Christianity. Just one-third of twentysomethings (34%) claims to be absolutely committed to Christianity. That compares to more than half – 54% – of all older adults who claim such absolute devotion, including more than 6 out of 10 adults who are age 50 and older.**


And of course this goodie from the Southern Baptist Family Life Council (http://sbcannualmeeting.org/sbc02/newsroom/newspage.asp?ID=261)

-- 88 percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at the age of 18, never to return.
:
:

[Imaginary Mark]

-- 88 percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at the age of 18, never to return.
88 percent left at exactly the age of 18? That's remarkable. :D

[Donkeykong]

I smell a bible thumping rat! It kinda sounds like christians just trying to whip their people into a frenzy

[Godless Dave]

Actually, I can remember my church (Southern Baptist) being opposed to trick or treating when I was still in elementary school in the early 80's.

Early 80s was what I meant by recent.

[Mav]

I agree with deblb8889 about the internet being part of the abandon christianity equation. I came up in a church manner, but once I started reading more and looking at other religions....logic prevailed. The comparison of different religions was a big factor for me. Example: The Egyptian book of the dead, has the 10 commandments in it plus. This leads to reasonable doubt which in turn causes one to look at every religion in the same light. Did Moses get the commandments from Egypt or did he take a memo on the mountain?

Godless Dave, the show Stargate SG1 is another show that makes one stop and think. The Egyptian false gods, the Or-i movement, makes one wonder. How many times in soap operas, movies, prime time shows, do you see them headed to church or doing bible study. Not much.

The one factor that sparks my interest is that religion answers the question of what happens when we pass. Mans greatest fear. It also provides guide lines for the masses to follow and live by with out having a warden watch over them. Many teens do not worry about death, but the older and closer one gets to it, they think about it more. Thus they turn to some thing that brings them peace of mind. Much like a Teddy bear or a blanket does for a child going to bed.

Lets not forget my favorite reason why the youth of the world is turning away from religion....Benny Hinn, Jim Baker, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart, Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton (The Farting Preacher). I know, Gods Dream Team. They see that these people have been exposed, yet still have followers sending in money. This leads me to ask "I'm not stupid enough to follow this guy, giving him my money....so why are these other christians doing it? They want me to join them?!!"

The death of religion will come about when the question of "What happens after death?" is answered. Remember the tooling side effect of religion though, it keeps the masses in line. Remove it and what might happen.....peace on earth maybe.http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/956.gif

[Godless Dave]

Godless Dave, the show Stargate SG1 is another show that makes one stop and think. The Egyptian false gods, the Or-i movement, makes one wonder. How many times in soap operas, movies, prime time shows, do you see them headed to church or doing bible study. Not much.

Yes, but neither of those are examples of mocking religion. Battlestar Galactica has at least as many religious aspects as Stargate: SG1 but it doesn't mock or attack religion either.

[BbeltAtheist]

Be nice to have some company around here :cool:

[Mav]

Your right Godless Dave, neither of those 2 shows mock or attack religion. Guess I should have stated it differently. I was just pointing out how some of the shows take a less of a direct approach. Star Trek the show did it a few times as well. Which raises the question of "If they can be tricked, who's to say we can't be as well."

P.S. I love all the shows mentioned thus far.http://www.websmileys.com/sm/love/088.gif

[Magnus Armstrong]

Yes, but neither of those are examples of mocking religion. Battlestar Galactica has at least as many religious aspects as Stargate: SG1 but it doesn't mock or attack religion either.

With SG-1, it's not so much mocking religion as bring up the questioning of it by presenting religions as an untruth. However, they have skated around on the issue. It's been no problem for them to present Norse or Babylonian or Egyptian gods as duplicitous aliens, but they never showed the Go'uld named Jahweh. I'm sure there was one in the Stargate universe! They did have a Go'uld calling himself Satan.

I nearly fell out of my seat when the self-serving, evil senator/VP Kinsey, in a typical Xian obtuse manner, made a reference to God in front of a Jaffa. I was waiting for the alien to turn to O'Neal and ask him what the hell Kinsey was talking about.

BG is a developing story. Interesting that it's the ROBOTS that are preaching about the one true god....

geek out.

[OripahsTrebor]

With SG-1, it's not so much mocking religion as bring up the questioning of it by presenting religions as an untruth. However, they have skated around on the issue. It's been no problem for them to present Norse or Babylonian or Egyptian gods as duplicitous aliens, but they never showed the Go'uld named Jahweh. I'm sure there was one in the Stargate universe! They did have a Go'uld calling himself Satan.


geek out.


You mean Sokar right?

[Venom]

Teens are turning away from the churches, because there are so many frickin hypocrits telling them how to live. The kids know these people are fake, and full of hate. Unfortunantly instead of turning their backs on these wolves in sheeps clothing, they turn their back to God. I think the main problem is that devils have infiltrated the churches, and have made it seem as though to be Christian, you have to be very anal, and devoid of personality.

[Ryzo]

At my high school there are ~13% open atheists and 2% fundies. Everyone else is either an MTDer (http://www.therevealer.org/archives/main_story_001837.php) or a closet fundy/atheist. And this is in conservative NC.

[ohwilleke]

As to the OP: I wish. Alas, this is more paranoia than reality.

[Negasta]

And of course this goodie from the Southern Baptist Family Life Council (http://sbcannualmeeting.org/sbc02/newsroom/newspage.asp?ID=261)

-- 88 percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at the age of 18, never to return.
:
:

Should this not be some sort of indication to the fundiefuck that they are fucking up big time (from their perspective) in raising their children?

[Imaginary Mark]

Should this not be some sort of indication to the fundiefuck that they are fucking up big time (from their perspective) in raising their children?
Clearly they need to start sending their kids to more Jesus Camps. :D

[Proxima Centauri]

Well evangelical Christianity isn't all of Christianity. I'm pretty sure Christianity will still be here 2,000 years from now, but the form of evangelicalism we see now? Maybe not. Religions have died out before.

I think one thing that is hurting them is their tendency to start promoting wackier and wackier doctrines; eventually they get so ridiculous as to alienate some believers. It seems to me that extreme doctrines like opposition to trick-or-treating and replacing dating with "courtship" only recently became widespread among fundies.

Humanity may not still be here 2000 years from now. :(
Christianity could die out within a few centuries. I hope so.:devil2:

[Proxima Centauri]

88 percent left at exactly the age of 18? That's remarkable. :DAt 18 their parents can't force them into the f***ing church any more.
Could also be pastor nightmair making things up
:devil2:

[MikeD]

I've read that part of the reason is that this generation to rejects hierarchy more than any other one has. They like non-hierarchical things like myspace. The church on the other hand is steeped in hierarchy.

[GenesisNemesis]

He had to have been talking about "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report" also. I wouldn't say they make fun of religion per se....but defintetely point out humorous inconsistencies as well as the nutjobs that promote Christian Fundamentalism.

-JB

Respectfully abadoned the church in 1998

Isn't Colbert Roman Catholic?

[Mav]

Isn't Colbert Roman Catholic?

Only to boost rating. :grin:

If he is, you can bet there are some watching him to see if he commits a sin.

I agree with B. Shack : "Christianity could die out within a few centuries. I hope so." The only thing that makes me wonder is what will take it's place.

[Jesus W. Vader]

I noticed a lot of teenagers in my Assembly of God church when I was younger were fairly fierce in asking questions to our youth pastor and such(I had doubts, but was quiet about it). I think in the last generation two as it has becomne more acceptable to question authority(however much self-righteous parents and teachers might bitch about this or exxagerate about the extent of it) church doctrines come with that package. I think millions of people just suffered in silence in the past. They also fornicated and had child abuse just like today. So, perhaps this is one of those things that always been around, but is more visible or relatively more acceptable. Probably many people were mentally absent from the church all along-then raised their kids in the church because it was the thing to do. I'm sure youth are not blind to their parent's hypocrisy when it occurs.

BTW, I suspect one of the rationale behind fundie homeschooling is to prevent empathy for one's fellow man, which might lead to questions, because, you know, their god isn't powerful enough to preserve their faith outside of the exact correct social environment.

[Hubble head]

Lots of good reasons already cited. Internet, TV, books; all media in general seems to be lashing back at an entity that seriously overstepped its bounds in this country in the past 10-15 years.

It's not only the youth, its every xian not 100% fundified. And even some of the fundifried are asking questions they never have before. Not only is the inevitable backlash of the swinging political pendulum affecting the far right, its taking jesus down with it.

This is for a few reasons, IMO. Easy access to information can't help the gods but the xian religion here did recently put all its eggs in one basket, so to speak. The GOP basket. As the public perception of the GOP falls, so will the perception of everything they came with. Exxons, Enrons, Falwells, Grahams, Roberts, neocons, KKKarl Roves, Haliburtons, Faux news.

All on decline. As more people see the realities of Bush Co everything they touched will fall apart or take a serious hit in poularity.

We should also all send a huge xmas thank you card to the Phelps clan, from all their friends here at IIDB.