Dumb Fuck Islam Cleric: "Women are to Blame for Rape"

[Starshark]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1774508.htm


A senior Muslim cleric has apologised for any offence caused by a sermon in which he reportedly laid the blame for sexual assault on women who do not cover their bodies.
Sydney cleric Sheikh Taj el-Din Al Hilaly reportedly compared women to uncovered meat during a sermon last month.

Way to go, jackass.

The good news is that clerics like these whose thinking is still in the stone-age will learn eventually that these opinions aren't acceptable in wider society. Hopefully this won't lead to wide-scale persecution of Muslims in Australia via the talkback radio dickheads, although I'm not holding out much hope for that.

[Starshark]

On the news just now: He's being asked to stand down, is apparently in bed on a ventilator.

Islamic Council of Australia and Muslim Advisory Board - along with a woman who's wearing the Hijab- have condemned his comments.

[premjan]

I wonder if wearing hijab actually discourages rape? Maybe if you can't see the woman's body you can't be sure whether she's attractive or not. Then again, I suppose not attractive women tend to get raped too.

[Blui]

Ohwell, his followers are just shooting themselves in the foot having this guy espouse camel-riding era crap.

[Stu]

It's probably important to note that these remarks also need to be seen in the context of a number of high-profile gang rapes of "uncovered meat" by members of his community. They are particularly disgusting remarks because they implicitly justify such rapes.

I must admit to being pleasantly surprised by the condemnation of his remarks by other Muslims, a victory for moderate Islam in the form of the Sheikh being sacked can only be a good thing (that tool Keysar Trad can join him).

[Starshark]

An ABC reporter was trying to explain the significance of a meeting of Lebanese people of some sort (didn't catch what they were, I think the words 'council' and '12 members' were mentioned) discussing the fate of the Sheikh, but someone came up and grabbed the camera (I heard the reporter say 'go away') and he never ended up finishing his report.

[premjan]

I think rape is probably a social problem as much as it is an individual one - so whereas it is not right to blame victims for rape, it may not be productive to imprison or execute large numbers of men for it without considering how to address the dominant causes, such as lack of socialization, not learning respect for women when growing up, tolerance of violence, antagonistic social attitudes etc.

[post tenebras lux]

I think rape is probably a social problem as much as it is an individual oneWhich would appear to be in agreement with this iman. 'Abandon' such 'uncovered meat' on the public streets and any stray cat can take it.

There are similar problems in francophonie, France has it worse that here but I've seen the attitude here as well: all western women are slut who'll shag anything and the only reason why they don't want to shag muslims is because they're racists slags. Any 'muslim' girl who dresses like a western woman is not only a slag but a traitor to her religion/culture and an insult to her family who knows that if she doesn't want to be harrassed/assaulted/raped then she 'merely' has to cover herself up. - so whereas it is not right to blame victims for rape, it may not be productive to imprison or execute large numbers of men for it without considering how to address the dominant causes, such as lack of socialization,Who is preventing these young men from socialising? How does telling them - and muslim females - that the only 'good' unmarried women are the ones who stay wrapped up and stay at home help?

Oh, and who's talking about executing them?not learning respect for women when growing up,Who is to blame for this? The wider western society in which they live or their culture's elders and traditional leaders, such as this iman?tolerance of violence,Indeed. It would be lovely to hear more imans and muslim leaders condemning muslim on non-muslim violence as well as condemning one muslim sect on another muslim sect violence. antagonistic social attitudes etc.Well, saying that un-hijabbed women are like abandoned meat is a pretty antagonistic attitude (imho).

[MindRevolution]

I've always thought this view implicitly depicts Muslim men as mere animals, as only animals would go after "uncovered meat" without restraint. This is especially weird to me since men are dominant in their culture and women are second class citizens, yet the men cannot stop themselves from committing unspeakable brutality because they merely saw some skin.

Just another reason why religion is all bullshit.

[yalla]

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=144935&highlight=rape

We had a few rounds on this topic some time ago.
Might be worth a look to see if opinions vary when the stimulus does not come from an Islamic cleric.

[premjan]

Unfortunately Islam considers animals to be perfectly innocent, so in a sense encourages humans to cater to their instincts to the max (within the dictates of Islam).

I don't agree with the idea that women are responsible for rape, but there is a certain sexual asymmetry between men and women that naturally makes men somewhat more likely to commit rape than it does women.

[youngalexander]

We had a few rounds on this topic some time ago.
Might be worth a look to see if opinions vary when the stimulus does not come from an Islamic cleric.
Strange Harmony of Contrasts.
Regretably Police continue investigations into alleged DVD rape (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1773824.htm)
and of course Islamic leaders discuss sheikh's future (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1774632.htm)

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

The good news is that clerics like these whose thinking is still in the stone-age will learn eventually that these opinions aren't acceptable in wider society.

I guess by "stone-age" you mean somewhere around 1988 when the movie "The Accused" hit mainstream pop culture in the US.

[Aikanaro]

I'm liking the response by other Muslims though - no matter how batshit crazy their beliefs are, at least they're not batshit crazy enough to agree with this guy...

[Pastor's Nightmare]

Unfortunately Islam considers animals to be perfectly innocent, so in a sense encourages humans to cater to their instincts to the max (within the dictates of Islam).

I don't agree with the idea that women are responsible for rape, but there is a certain sexual asymmetry between men and women that naturally makes men somewhat more likely to commit rape than it does women.

Somewhat more likely? Perhaps a change of adjective is warranted. I guess PC is good. :devil3:

[premjan]

Somewhat is an indeterminate amount:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/somewhat
some‧what  /ˈsʌmˌʰwʌt, -ˌʰwɒt, -ʰwət, -ˌwʌt, -ˌwɒt, -wət/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhm-hwuht, -hwot, -hwuht, -wuht, -wot, -wuht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adverb 1. in some measure or degree; to some extent: not angry, just somewhat disturbed.
–noun 2. some part, portion, amount, etc.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1150–1200; ME; see some, what]

[post tenebras lux]

I'm liking the response by other Muslims though - no matter how batshit crazy their beliefs are, at least they're not batshit crazy enough to agree with this guy...Indeed.

It's just a shame that it took a month before they started to be outraged and offended. I mean, assuming that it's true that he is Australia's 'most senior' imam, this was a sermon during Ramadan by their most senior cleric - so why were none of them listening (or being offended/outraged if they were listening)?

Why did it take The Australian publishing an english translation to get muslims outraged and offended? :huh:


Perhaps they just mean 'embarrassed' or somesuch?

[Starshark]

Indeed.

It's just a shame that it took a month before they started to be outraged and offended. I mean, assuming that it's true that he is Australia's 'most senior' imam, this was a sermon during Ramadan by their most senior cleric - so why were none of them listening (or being offended/outraged if they were listening)?

Why did it take The Australian publishing an english translation to get muslims outraged and offended? :huh:


Perhaps they just mean 'embarrassed' or somesuch?

The people I heard speaking out against the Sheikh were Muslims with clearly Australian accents. It's possible they didn't know what he said until the translation came out.

[grendelfreak]

Indeed.

It's just a shame that it took a month before they started to be outraged and offended. I mean, assuming that it's true that he is Australia's 'most senior' imam, this was a sermon during Ramadan by their most senior cleric - so why were none of them listening (or being offended/outraged if they were listening)?

Why did it take The Australian publishing an english translation to get muslims outraged and offended? :huh:


Perhaps they just mean 'embarrassed' or somesuch?

I can't remember where I read this, but I read that his position is self-appointed and that other muslims groups, particularly those from different ethnic backgrounds don't recognise him as the "leader". Can anyone confirm or disprove this?

[post tenebras lux]

The people I heard speaking out against the Sheikh were Muslims with clearly Australian accents. It's possible they didn't know what he said until the translation came out.But (surely) there must have been someone in the mosque when he gave his sermon? Surely, someone there must have understood what he said? Someone there should have cared about his 'cultural insensitivity' at the time.

Or is it credible to assume that his congregation is made up of non-australian muslims who speak no english (and don't understand the rights of women in a liberal democracy) and australian muslims who speak no arabic (and don't bother to try and translate/get a friend to translate a Ramadan sermon from their senior cleric)? :huh:

[Aeron]

it is a pretty bad sign that we can put people on the moon and still have some bizarre taboo about our own bodies.

The again, religion didn't put people into space and science doesn't make women cover their faces . . .

Yet the debate rages on . . .

[untermensche]

But (surely) there must have been someone in the mosque when he gave his sermon? Surely, someone there must have understood what he said? Someone there should have cared about his 'cultural insensitivity' at the time.

Or is it credible to assume that his congregation is made up of non-australian muslims who speak no english (and don't understand the rights of women in a liberal democracy) and australian muslims who speak no arabic (and don't bother to try and translate/get a friend to translate a Ramadan sermon from their senior cleric)? :huh:
A lot of these people exist in about the same state many Americans existed at about 50 years ago.

When segregation was legal and justified from the pulpits of American houses of worship.

They have not been allowed to develop and grow though.

The US and other nations have repeatedly interfered with their lives, from installing the Shah in Iran, to suporting Hussein in his rise to power, to supporting the Saudi regime and other similar regimes in the region, to the vetoing of all UN Resolutions trying to curtail the Israeli occupation.

The people of Iran were making good progress towards moving away from their religious state, but the invasion of Iraq has been a major setback, strengthening the power of the religious fundamentalists.

[premjan]

It is true that political autonomy can be a condition for growth - freedom with all its perils I guess.

[post tenebras lux]

A lot of these people exist in about the same state many Americans existed at about 50 years ago.

When segregation was legal and justified from the pulpits of American houses of worship.

They have not been allowed to develop and grow though.

The US and other nations have repeatedly interfered with their lives, from installing the Shah in Iran, to suporting Hussein in his rise to power, to supporting the Saudi regime and other similar regimes in the region, to the vetoing of all UN Resolutions trying to curtail the Israeli occupation.

The people of Iran were making good progress towards moving away from their religious state, but the invasion of Iraq has been a major setback, strengthening the power of the religious fundamentalists.We're talking about Australia here untermensche, so I don't really understand your comments. What does the Shah of Iran have to do with a Sydney-based Sunni* Imam? :huh:

* Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but he appears to be Sunni.I can't remember where I read this, but I read that his position is self-appointed and that other muslims groups, particularly those from different ethnic backgrounds don't recognise him as the "leader". Can anyone confirm or disprove this?Hi grendelfreak. Not all the muslims quoted in the newspaper report appear to know that his position is 'self-appointed'. This woman's comments can be interpreted as supporting this idea:Ms Hage-Ali said she was "disgusted and offended" by Shiek Hilali's comments. "I find it very offensive that a man who considers himself as a mufti, a leader of Australia's Muslims, can give comment that lacks intelligence and common sense." But not these guys:Muslim community leaders were yesterday outraged and offended by Sheik Hilali's remarks, insisting the cleric was no longer worthy of his title as Australia's mufti. Can someone from the australian muslim community please explain?

[untermensche]

We're talking about Australia here untermensche, so I don't really understand your comments. What does the Shah of Iran have to do with a Sydney-based Sunni* Imam? :huh:
But this guy is not a native Australian.

[post tenebras lux]

And on the other side of this globe, yet another imam (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/6087430.stm) puts his foot in it (but maybe he wasn't born in the UK, so that's 'OK' then :rolleyes:):A gay rights campaigner has accused an Imam of saying the execution of gay Muslims to stop the spread of disease is "for the common good of man".

...

The Imam did not deny the comments but said he had been misinterpreted.

Mr Misbahi said he was only talking about the Islamic perspective on homosexuality and stressed he would make a statement later on Thursday.

[grendelfreak]

Found a bio of him, oh goodie he's into the Muslim Brotherhood :banghead:

http://www.answers.com/topic/taj-el-din-hilaly

[post tenebras lux]

Found a little speech (http://www.abc.net.au/religion/stories/s1058934.htm) of his too, one where he states:Don’t be surprised if one day you hear the Muezzin calling for prayer and saying “Allah Akbar (Allah is Great)” from the top of the white house. September 11 is God’s work against oppressors. Some of the things that happen in the world cannot be explained; a civilian airplane whose secrets cannot be explained if we ask its pilot who reached his objective without error, who led your steps? Or if we ask the giant that fell, who humiliated you? Or if we ask the President, who made you cry? God is the answer. Plus a news report (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/03/08/1078594293439.html?oneclick=true) where he doesn't deny saying one thing in arabic and another in english: It has long been said that Al Hilaly, who is the imam at the Lakemba Mosque, has one message in Arabic and yet another (in translation) in English.

Surprisingly, he did not deny this when the claim was put to him by Doogue. He responded: "Of course, you are talking about two different environments" and added that "when addressing an Arabic community I am using the high literary Arabic language".

How convenient. It's just that no other prominent Muslim in Australia appears to experience such language-induced misunderstandings.

[Negasta]

The stupid fucker (cleric) should be sent to prison for inciting violence against women, because we all know there will be some dumb Muslim fuck who takes this statement as permission to rape.

[WWJD4aKlondikeBar]

What, another religious zealot justified the brutalization of a person or persons with nonsensical religious rhetoric? This isn't news. Sometimes I just wish that I could time travel into the future where society evolves out of the need for religions and people stop killing each other with the excuse that the big man in the sky said it was okay.

[dragoon]

It wasn't that long ago that this opinion was generally believed right here in the good old USA. Matter of fact, got many a guy off the hook with juries time after time when I was a kid.

Dumb Muslims, they need to meet or exceed our evolved standards - like right now!!

[Tammuz]

This is how Muslims are. The good thing when they accidently say such things is more people will awake to see the danger of the Islamic threat which threatens to plung Europe back into the Dark Age.

Too bad the kind of comments uttered, such as "It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl", as Hamid said (http://dansk-svensk.blogspot.com/2005/10/nya-vldtktsvgan.html), are not getting much attention. Or how four Muslim Somali rapists turned into two Swedes, a Finn and a Somali (http://dansk-svensk.blogspot.com/2005/11/etnisk-transformation-i-aftonbladet.html) when a newspaper wrote about the event.

Sometimes I just wish that I could time travel into the future where society evolves out of the need for religions and people stop killing each other with the excuse that the big man in the sky said it was okay.

I feel the same!

[Neo-Nietzschean]

We're talking about Australia here untermensche, so I don't really understand your comments. What does the Shah of Iran have to do with a Sydney-based Sunni* Imam

Untermensche is attempting to provide context. The continued backwardness of Islam cannot be understood simply within the confines of Islamic civilization itself , but must be considered in regards to the impact that western civilization has had upon it underneath the various historical colonial powers.

[Starshark]

This is how Muslims are. The good thing when they accidently say such things is more people will awake to see the danger of the Islamic threat which threatens to plung Europe back into the Dark Age.

Too bad the kind of comments uttered, such as "It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl", as Hamid said (http://dansk-svensk.blogspot.com/2005/10/nya-vldtktsvgan.html), are not getting much attention. Or how four Muslim Somali rapists turned into two Swedes, a Finn and a Somali (http://dansk-svensk.blogspot.com/2005/11/etnisk-transformation-i-aftonbladet.html) when a newspaper wrote about the event.



I feel the same!

You are correct, this is how Muslims are. Which is why the ABC had over five minutes of footage of Muslims lining up to condemn the comments which were made. It's all part of the subterfuge, you know.

Muslims - they're tricky bastards. Like Commies. And witches.

[EarlOfLade]

Not that I consider christians too be angels in this area either.

Take a look at LDS and their polygami where a 60 year old is married to a 14 year old girl. Isn't rape?

What about the Amish? Same shit.

Too many christian cults are believing the same shit as muslims do.

[countjulian]

Untermensche is attempting to provide context. The continued backwardness of Islam cannot be understood simply within the confines of Islamic civilization itself , but must be considered in regards to the impact that western civilization has had upon it underneath the various historical colonial powers.

I highly doubt you would accept such a an excuse for European misbehavior or mis-conduct, excuses such as "Christians in Europe burned witches cuz' they were afraid of Muslim invasion lol" or "Europeans engaged in the slave trade cuz' other Africans and Arabs did it first (and continue to do it today) lol."

[breezanne]

I suppose it can all be justified cuz that damn vixen Eve tempted Adam with her apple... :sneaky:

[Booyakasha!]

I guess by "stone-age" you mean somewhere around 1988 when the movie "The Accused" hit mainstream pop culture in the US.

More evidence that the Far Left here simply CANNOT bring themselves to criticize these religious fucking maniacs who treat women worse than dogshit.

Don1 is attempting to provide cover for and deflect criticism away from misogynistic Muslims.

[TollHouse]

Stating the obvious the non-asswipe-impaired: This cleric is a fucking dangerous idiot.

[Booyakasha!]

The US and other nations have repeatedly interfered with their lives, from installing the Shah in Iran, to suporting Hussein in his rise to power, to supporting the Saudi regime and other similar regimes in the region, to the vetoing of all UN Resolutions trying to curtail the Israeli occupation.

The people of Iran were making good progress towards moving away from their religious state, but the invasion of Iraq has been a major setback, strengthening the power of the religious fundamentalists.

Here we learn from the Far Left that passages in the Koran and over a thousand years of Islamic tradition treating women like less-than-second-class citizens must somehow be the fault of "US Imperialism." :rolleyes:

Of course, the fanatically religious, misogynistic Muslims themselves should never be blamed for their own actions.

[Persona Vitrea]

The good thing when they accidently say such things is more people will awake to see the danger of the Islamic threat which threatens to plung Europe back into the Dark Age.
It is equally likely that when Muslims say such things, people will frantically assemble indignant ad hoc excuses, defenses, or red herrings (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=184311) on behalf of them.

At least, that's how it works here at IIDB.

[Nice Squirrel]

Not Political. Maybe MF&P. But I'll send it to GRD.

[Booyakasha!]

Don't worry, the Far Left crowd here, who claim (hypocritically) to stand for human rights and womens' rights will not allow this disrespectful criticism of Muslim behavior. They will try to throw up some smoke-screens (probably involving the words "Neocon", "Bush" and/or "Haliburton"), and to accuse "Christians" of doing similar things (this usually involves abortion clinics), invoking the "Billy did it, too" excuse that most of us learned was not valid when we tried to use it on our parents at age 5.

[Stu]

And the verdict is in - Sheikh receives slap on wrist:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1774761.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1774761.htm)

[Laura D.]

Sydney cleric Sheikh Taj el-Din Al Hilaly reportedly compared women to uncovered meat during a sermon last month.

I felt physically ill on reading this, too much reality for today. I'm off to play with my children.

God bless,


Laura

[breezanne]

Of course, the fanatically religious, misogynistic Muslims themselves should never be blamed for their own actions.Of course they should... but as individuals... whether they are misogynistic Muslims or misogynistic Christians or misogynistic atheists. Individuals. Let's not pretend that people only come in bunches (like bananas).

[Stu]

An ABC reporter was trying to explain the significance of a meeting of Lebanese people of some sort (didn't catch what they were, I think the words 'council' and '12 members' were mentioned) discussing the fate of the Sheikh, but someone came up and grabbed the camera (I heard the reporter say 'go away') and he never ended up finishing his report.

Turns out that was just a case of the cameraman ditching the reporter to go on strike:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/abc-news-floored-by-live-cross-wires/2006/10/27/1161749297819.html

I wonder if he'll still have a job tomorrow.

[Ponzi]

Justice would be a group of burly gay men raping any muslim man who doesn't dress conservatively.

[Glimmung]

You can read the independently translated comments here (http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=132248&region=7)

-G

[Starshark]

Turns out that was just a case of the cameraman ditching the reporter to go on strike:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/abc-news-floored-by-live-cross-wires/2006/10/27/1161749297819.html

I wonder if he'll still have a job tomorrow.

[Derail ahoy]
I've worked with the government, and they are nothing short of cunts when it comes to pay negotiations. While I suspect the cameraman will lose his job one way or another, I applaud what he did. It was the right thing.

(Anyone wanting to discuss industrial action, please start a thread in PD - don't derail this one. There, I'm finished.)

[post tenebras lux]

You are correct, this is how Muslims are. Which is why the ABC had over five minutes of footage of Muslims lining up to condemn the comments which were made. It's all part of the subterfuge, you know.It's just such a shame that it took them a month before any such 'nice' muslim bothered to read their mufti's sermon. I'd find their comdemnations rather more credible (and creditable) if they had condemned his comments before The Australian published translated extracts of his sermon.Muslims - they're tricky bastards. Like Commies. And witches.Yep. Taqiyya is a wonderful thing.

ETA: It appears that he was appointed as the mufti for Australia back in 1989, so one would have hoped that he'd have adapted to Australia by now.

Here's the BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6090136.stm) on his slap on the wrists:Muslim leaders decided to accept his apology and said that no action would be taken against the cleric.
Mosque Association president Tom Zreika said the board was "basically satisfied with the notion that certain statements made by the mufti [were] misrepresented".How were they misrepresented please? If he wished to talk only about prostitutes and prostitution, then home come the words were never mentioned in his 17 minute sermon?

And a repsonse from the mufti:Sheikh Hilali sparked more controversy on Friday when, asked by reporters if he would resign, he responded: "After we clean the world of the White House first."

[topgun12]

the chairman of the Muslim Council of Great Britain, who is visiting Australia, sprang to the mufti's defence. 'I know he is one of the greatest Muslim scholars on earth and Australia is blessed with him,'

'one of the greatest Muslim scholars on earth' is misrepresenting the Quaran?.. if this is one of the best i would hate to think what the bad ones are like....

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/article_1215175.php/Australian_Muslims_rally_behind_cleric_who_defended_rape

[hinduwoman]

Indeed.

It's just a shame that it took a month before they started to be outraged and offended. I mean, assuming that it's true that he is Australia's 'most senior' imam, this was a sermon during Ramadan by their most senior cleric - so why were none of them listening (or being offended/outraged if they were listening)?

Why did it take The Australian publishing an english translation to get muslims outraged and offended? :huh:


Perhaps they just mean 'embarrassed' or somesuch?

That might be due to Politically Correct Tolerance being breached at last. Sex Discrimination Commissioner Mr. Pru Goward said , “It is time we stopped just saying he should apologise. It is time the Islamic community did more than say they were horrified”.

[post tenebras lux]

Can any native Sydneyites - or any Australians who know more of Sydney than just Kings Cross confirm whether Long Bay gaol/jail would be the institution where those six Lebanese Australians were sent after being convicted of those gang rapes?

Here's the part of his sermon that raised my interest:But when it comes to adultery, it's 90% the women's responsibility. Why? Because a woman possesses the weapon of seduction.

It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us, dallying. It's she who shortens, raises and lowers.

Then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation, a greeting, then a conversation, then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. [laughs].

Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years. is he talking about those boys here? :huh:

ETA: and this is his next paragraph, I think I'll need to go shopping for a new brain soon:But when it comes to this disaster, who started it? In his literature, scholar al-Rafihi says: 'If I came across a rape crime - kidnap and violation of honour - I would discipline the man and order that the woman be arrested and jailed for life.'
:banghead:

[grendelfreak]

Can any native Sydneyites - or any Australians who know more of Sydney than just Kings Cross confirm whether Long Bay gaol/jail would be the institution where those six Lebanese Australians were sent after being convicted of those gang rapes?

Here's the part of his sermon that raised my interest: is he talking about those boys here? :huh:

ETA: and this is his next paragraph, I think I'll need to go shopping for a new brain soon:
:banghead:


Here is a wiki about the rapes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

Also according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_Skaf at least the leader of the gang went to Long Bay but was later transferred to another prison.

[Booyakasha!]

Of course they should... but as individuals... whether they are misogynistic Muslims or misogynistic Christians or misogynistic atheists. Individuals. Let's not pretend that people only come in bunches (like bananas).

The Koran itself and the susequent teachings of Islam are incredibly misogynistic, so yes, I will criticize the whole religion, which needs to come out of the dark ages.

[Mughal]

I wonder why people are so upset when islam is religion of peace and mufti is only teaching us what islam is?

Lock up the women folk and throw away the bunch of keys.

or

Keep the burqas handy just in case pieces of meat jump out from nowhere just to be on the safe side.

I know we cannot lock up mad mufties or their followers will cook us alive.

:huh: :huh: :huh: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[yalla]

This should interest Australians and maybe others

This Australian website:
http://mumble.com.au/
asks this question:
Whose words are these?
"While rape or sexual harassment can never be condoned, it is true that some women dress or act provocatively so as to evoke a response ... It is about as sensible to expect such provocation always to be safe as to walk around some areas of New York with a wad of money sticking out of your pocket."

And then provides the answer [sort of] which will become clear if you go here:
http://www.henrythornton.com/contributors.asp?contributor=6

[hinduwoman]

Some cheering news from Australia: http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,20657357-5006301,00.html
After it was revealed the cleric compared skimpily-dressed women to "uncovered meat" and suggested they were "the problem" that caused sexual attack, South Australians marched in the annual Reclaim the Night rally. The cleric's views were condemned by Status of Women Minister Jennifer Rankine, who also marched last night.

"If the translations are correct, the comments are appalling," she said.

"Women should be able to feel safe no matter what creed, colour or religion they are - women should be safe to walk the streets."

Muslim Women's Association's Janine Evans said the comments were "totally unacceptable" and had undone "years of work". "The bridges we have been building have been burnt behind us," she said.

"But we will start again. We're going to keep moving forward. This has brought things to a head . . . and it has given Muslim women the opportunity to say: 'As Muslims, we believe women everywhere have the same rights and we will stand strong together to affirm those rights'."

The pity is that the clerics are not saying this.

[premjan]

Without some of these repressive aspects, the rationale for some religions like Islam will disappear.

[breezanne]

The Koran itself and the susequent teachings of Islam are incredibly misogynistic, so yes, I will criticize the whole religion, which needs to come out of the dark ages.I repeat... misogynistic individuals should take the blame for their own actions... it doesn't matter what (if any) religion they claim to subscribe to. Broad brushes are for house painters... not for careful thinkers.

Ever read the Old Testament? Ever listen to Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell? Ever hear the rant of an embittered atheist? On the other hand, ever meet a Sufi?