Finland hymns and socio-religious discussion (split from PA&SA)

[kuippana]

Maybe a bit OT but here is a potpourri (compiled version) of hymns in a mass which was maybe the most popular event this year.

http://www.metallimessu.com/mp3/sikerma-virsista.mp3

It's in finnish but you might find its backgound music interesting.

There is a news story (in Aamulehti) of economical issues of the state church (another being eastern orthodox church). It's doing just fine even if there is fastest decline in number of members, ever. Thanks to freethinkers there is a web site where you can easily leave the church ;-)
I'll give the main points if somebody is interested.

[Seeker630]

Maybe a bit OT but here is a potpourri (compiled version) of hymns in a mass which was maybe the most popular event this year.

http://www.metallimessu.com/mp3/sikerma-virsista.mp3

It's in finnish but you might find its backgound music interesting.

There is a news story (in Aamulehti) of economical issues of the state church (another being eastern orthodox church). It's doing just fine even if there is fastest decline in number of members, ever. Thanks to freethinkers there is a web site where you can easily leave the church ;-)
I'll give the main points if somebody is interested.


I'm curious---do you pay taxes in Finland to support the state church, and if you want to leave that religion can you opt out of paying that tax? I know it works that way in other European and Scandanavian countries that have official religions--mostly Lutheran as I understand it.

[kuippana]

I'm curious---do you pay taxes in Finland to support the state church, and if you want to leave that religion can you opt out of paying that tax? I know it works that way in other European and Scandanavian countries that have official religions--mostly Lutheran as I understand it.
Members of the church pay church taxes and if you leave the church you don't.

The tax is usually somewhere between 1,5 - 2 percent, depending in which parish you live. Also, the eastern orthodox church have right to tax its members by law and their tax is a bit higher. Other registered religious communities have right to collect membership fees without paying income taxes as other registered non-profit associties. I guess it's quite the same in USA.

One thing I'm disapointed in our taxation system. Parishes get a piece of corporation tax cake.

Majority of finns are members of the Evangelic-Lutheran church but I guess it's more a cultural thing than devoted faith. Weddings, funeral and such...
It's quite common to hear clergyman to complain about empty churches during services, exceptions being Christmas (Joulu ie. Yule in finnish) service or a metal mass :-)

I don't say it's only a old monolith in society cause it provides some good services and jobs but there is a lot bureaucratic garbage society could do well without and it's a big umbrella, everybody is welcome and some members think it's too liberal, some others that it's too inflexible.

Volume of business: almost billion euros
Tax income: over 700 million
Assets: rough estimation 700 million
Stock portfolio: 150 million
Profit: 10%

Members left last year: 33 043
New members: 49 443 (babies babtised) - 41 066 (died) + 9 559 (affiliated)

Members of church/total population: 83,1% (-0,5%)
70 % who left the church are ages between 20-39.
Reasons for the decline: new freedom of religion laws that make leaving easier, young people think membership is insignificant and old people are disappointed, at least according to polls.

P.S. I'n not sure if those econimic words are the right ones cause I'm not business or english major ;-)

[kuippana]

Oh, I forgot mention. Members leaving the church is 0,6-0,8% annually, so I guess the dinosaur will die slowly :-)

Main point is still that religion is considered private thing and religion or church has very little effect on politics and religion classes in school are boring and you don't have to participate if you are not member of church.

[EverLastingGodStopper]

Mod Note: posts above split from PA&SA thread Atheist goes to Lutheran Class (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=184310) and sent to GRD.

[Markoff Chaney]

It's quite common to hear clergyman to complain about empty churches during services, exceptions being Christmas (Joulu ie. Yule in finnish) service or a metal mass :-)



OK I'm a little confused. I know that per capita, Finland has more heavy metal bands than just about any other country on the planet... but a metal mass? That can't possibly be what I think it is. Tell me I'm wrong.

[hjalti]

Here (http://www.stat.fi/tup/suoluk/suoluk_vaesto_en.html#structure) you can see the statistics.

No religious affiliation 14,7% :thumbs:
Members of church/total population: 83,1% (-0,5%)We're down to 84,1%, but last year it decreased by 1,4% :D

[kuippana]

OK I'm a little confused. I know that per capita, Finland has more heavy metal bands than just about any other country on the planet... but a metal mass? That can't possibly be what I think it is. Tell me I'm wrong.
I'm not sure what you think but last summer there was metal mass. Liturgy included metal style adaptations of hymns.

As I wrote before, normal sunday services are unpopular so maybe they needed to figure out something else.

The metal mass was held in well known church. That church has a nick name:
devil prevention bunker.

The Lutheran church had/has add campains to attract young people. Some people thought metal mass would be improper or even satanic but that event was very popular, they couldn't cram everybody interested of it in.