How many Black atheists on IIDB?

[blkgayatheist]

Ive been on here for a few months ago and am curious about hearing the experience of other black atheists. Ive been on Reggie's site Infidel guy, but for whatever reasons I havent really gotten into the forums there. Would love to hear from you guys

or anyone else who wants to say hello!

[phrog]

Hello.

[I. C. Unicorns]

I think that sums it up. Time to close this thread.




:Cheeky:

[Imaginary Mark]

What! phrog is black!

I think because you're from Utah I always pictured you as white.

[Naruto]

We have one black ninja (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/member.php?u=17919).

[EverLastingGodStopper]

I'm on both Infidel Guy forums and IIDB. I used to joke with Feanorian from IG (KwisatzHaderach in #freethoughtmedia chat) about keeping a list of black atheists (we used to chat in other places online, too). Every time one of us would meet a newbie who was black, we'd say, "One more black atheist for the list! Now there's 12!" As IG became more famous, more black atheists spoke up, mostly on his site.

I would guess that I've interacted with roughly 3 dozen black atheists online, some on Yahoo, some in IIDB, and most of them at IG's site. But I imagine that in all these groups, I'm not aware of the race of my online correspondents, so I'd say that my estimate is rather conservative.

[blkgayatheist]

Thanks for the reply! As you know its rare to run across other black atheist in the "real world". I need to spend more time on IG to interact more I guess.

To your knowledge, have any of the mainstream black publications ever done an article on black atheists?

[phrog]

What! phrog is black!

I think because you're from Utah I always pictured you as white.

No, I fit into the "...and anyone else tht want's to say hello."

[blkgayatheist]

No, I fit into the "...and anyone else tht want's to say hello."


Thats what i figured. thanks for the hello

and congrats on 35 crazy years! (from the anniversary thread)

[athee]

I'm mixed, so I guess I fractionally count. :wave:

[thebeave]

Wow...a black, gay atheist. You're not exactly the poster child for the Republican Party, are you? :Cheeky:

Welcome to IIDB! You'll have lots of fun here. :wave:

[blkgayatheist]

I'm mixed, so I guess I fractionally count. :wave:

hey athee! you know I almost made some comment in the OP about Im not getting into defining what "black" is....if you think you count, you count!

my interest is more in hearing about the experience of black atheists in relation to the larger black community if you will.

I was raised catholic, was sort of agnostic through college, became a fundamentalist in my mid 20s and then a "universalist" in my late 20s, early 30s and declared myself full fledged atheist about a year ago (Im 37). Certain things never made sense to me, but religion was so engrained it was hard to completely throw it off. I have an uncle whose atheist, but for the most part most my family and friends are theists/religious of some sort.

I tend to notice that black athletes and entertainers are far more likely to at least pay lip service to god belief (in situations where such discussion wouldnt be obviously relevant) and I always find it, well, a little annoying. Thats just one example of how I feel that black atheist may have a different experience

[blkgayatheist]

Wow...a black, gay atheist. You're not exactly the poster child for the Republican Party, are you? :Cheeky:

Welcome to IIDB! You'll have lots of fun here. :wave:

Thank you! guess you could call me a glutton for punishment

Did I mention I was also raised Catholic, in Texas!!!!

[FatherMithras]

Thank you! guess you could call me a glutton for punishment

Did I mention I was also raised Catholic, in Texas!!!!
I thought you were my friend Selvyn until you said that. Heheh.

[Idolator]

I'm mixed, so I guess I fractionally count. :wave:
One-fifth of a poster. Same as everyone else.

(I kid, I kid, I'm just an asshole.)

[Cynical-Chick]

One-fifth of a poster. Same as everyone else.

(I kid, I kid, I'm just an asshole.)
THREE fifths. Go back to history class! *spanks*

The Republican party line had me giggling.

Welcome. Feel free to post another (full) intro upstairs in the lounge.


(And I'm Whitey McWhiterson, for the record--Irish, Russian, Polish)

[SweetReason]

There's a group in Albany, New York called the "Black American Freak out Association". Their URL is http://www.baftahome.com/ . Another organization is African Americans for Humanism, but I don't have their URL handy.

Crisis, the NAACP magazine had an article this summer about disagreement within the "black church" (as if there were only one!); you it was about social justice churches versus prosperity-oriented mega-churches . So, who knows? You might be open to an article about black atheists, too.

[Idolator]

THREE fifths. Go back to history class!
I feel shame. :(

[KidFury]

Count me in...

As much as I find it rare to meet other black atheists I find it even more rare to meet other black libertarians :)

[EverLastingGodStopper]

Thanks for the reply! As you know its rare to run across other black atheist in the "real world". I need to spend more time on IG to interact more I guess.
Just to clarify, I'm not black, but I have a lot of black friends, more online than offline. I met Reggie (IG) online in early 2002 and we became net-friends, meeting in real life at the Godless March on Washington in November 2002. I've been involved with his site since then and have appeared on his show a few times. Plus, I hang in his chat, and since there are a lot of black people already in there, I am fortunate to make their acquaintance.

To access this chat via IRC, connect to server irc.infidelguy.com, channel #freethoughtmedia, or use the link from Infidel Guy.com (http://www.infidelguy.com). I usually only go there on Fridays for the shows, because I'm mostly in my own chat, #stopperbot on irc.wikkedwire.com. (I popped in there this morning, though, and I'll lurk for a few days).

To your knowledge, have any of the mainstream black publications ever done an article on black atheists?
I'm glad that Sweet Reason posted a reply above, because I'm not aware offhand of any mainstream black publication doing a story about black atheists. It would be a great topic, especially for the mass-market media such as Ebony or Jet. The could interview Reggie, and maybe the guy who's making a splash on YouTube (http://youtube.com/results?search_query=pfunk1&search=Search), PFunk1 (http://pfunk1.com/), helping promote the Atheistic.net (http://www.atheistic.net) site with his awesome clip, ATHEIST WALKING (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2WHf5HFDk10)... but I digress.

I stay well-informed about atheists in the media. In addition to other sources, I get Google News alerts for "atheist" and "atheism," and I can't recall seeing any news story covering the angle of "black atheists" or "atheism in the black community" recently. Or ever. Perhaps we should push the issue...

[djrafikie]

My ex-g/f shanira is a black atheist. she's also a lesbian, and a single mum.
she's probably almost all of the minorities in her tiny backwater town..(her joke, not mine).
Her parents were'nt too impressed when she gave them the news (about being an atheist), and as about half of her friends were in her local church, she lost a fair few of them as well!... *sends shanira IIDB link*

[openeyes]

I'm a whitey, but I've thought, more than once, that as difficult as it is for me and my other pale friends to be atheist in the U.S., it'd be even tougher if you're black. The pat answer to so many problems that face the black population seems to be spirituality and getting in touch with your local black church. . .

Anyway, welcome. FWIW, we do have a few people of color involved locally in our various "freethought" groups.

[infidelguy]

I'd say Norm Allen Jr over at African Americans for Humanism (http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=aah&page=index) would also have some insight. I own a black freethinkers discussion list (since 2001) here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/black_freethinkers

Nice to meet cha!

Reginald V. Finley Sr.
The Infidel Guy
http://www.infidelguy.com

[Megatron]

I might accidentally cross the "White boy gonna get his ass kicked" line here but... why is it so rare to find black atheists, anyway?

I've only met one in my whole life IRL, no shit... and but a handful on the internet.

[Plognark]

I might accidentally cross the "White boy gonna get his ass kicked" line here but... why is it so rare to find black atheists, anyway?

I've only met one in my whole life IRL, no shit... and but a handful on the internet.

I dunno, maybe it's a cultural thing? :confused:

Could be a population thing too. I'd wager that a rather large majority of the english speaking world is caucasian, right?


Hey, someone page SNM! :grin:

[Dana]

Me! Me! Me!

I'm Black, female, and atheist!!! And until I moved to Texas, almost all of the atheists I knew were Black women (that means 2 out of 4).

Dana

[blkgayatheist]

I'd say Norm Allen Jr over at African Americans for Humanism (http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=aah&page=index) would also have some insight. I own a black freethinkers discussion list (since 2001) here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/black_freethinkers

Nice to meet cha!

Reginald V. Finley Sr.
The Infidel Guy
http://www.infidelguy.com

Reggie, glad to hear from you! I admire the work that you do on Infidel guy and I will join the yahoo group. I also saw you on the reality show and admire even more that you found another black atheist to marry!

[blkgayatheist]

I might accidentally cross the "White boy gonna get his ass kicked" line here but... why is it so rare to find black atheists, anyway?

I've only met one in my whole life IRL, no shit... and but a handful on the internet.

No reason to get your ass kicked for a question I pose myself..in fact I am working on a screenplay (i know so passe) about a black guy who is atheist and has a white friend who poses the same question

My take on it is that a lot of it has to do with the "politics of respectability" in that the allegation that blacks were morally inferior was an integral part of the racist paradigm, and unfortunately, religiosity, particularly Christianity, has become a proxy for higher morality. So the more God fearing black people are, the more we show that we are not morally inferior (and in fact there is an attitude of moral superiority--like the idea that black people dont do things like molest their own children (obviously false))

Also, there is great appeal in Christianity for the downtrodden: in the more positive sense of God bringing his people out of bondage, and in the more pacifist sense that your lowly station in life on earth doesnt matter, you wil be rewarded in heaven. That is out of vogue right now in the black church community though as the prosperity gospels of people like TD Jakes, Creflo Dollar and Noah Jones have certainly taken hold.

Add that to the role of the church in the civil rights movement and I think we have a lot of factors contributing to heightened religiosity among blacks and the inverse heightened rarity of black atheists.

[blkgayatheist]

Me! Me! Me!

I'm Black, female, and atheist!!! And until I moved to Texas, almost all of the atheists I knew were Black women (that means 2 out of 4).

Dana

Dana, I just moved from Dallas to LA a year ago. So you've actually met an atheist black guy there? I thought I was the only one.

Another observation, I noticed something in the latest Ebony magazine top bachelorette story. Id say 90% of the women in the story when listing the attributes they desire in their mate listed "Christian" among them. These are almost all very well educated and career successful women. I may be wrong but I just dont think you would see the same thing in a mainstream non-religious publication featuring white bachelorettes

And that point of view is re-inforced by anecdotal evidence from my single hetero black male friends who say that black women they meet are overwhemingly more likely than white women to ask the men about their religious beliefs and whether they go to church. I have found the same disparity in my dealings with black gay men versus gay men of other races.

[Godless Dave]

No, I fit into the "...and anyone else tht want's to say hello."

Me too. Hello blkgayatheist!

[blkgayatheist]

Thanks Godless Dave, and thanks to everyone who responded with welcomes and provided links to further information

[Damo]

I'm white, but just wanted to comment that there was a book that we read in high school English class called "Black Boy" which was the auto-biography of a black atheist, Richard Wright, which was pretty affirming for my own deconversion, just because it was probably the first time I read about anybody else's deconversion, and it being somebody who had to go through a lot more grief from his family and community for it put my own deconversion into perspective

[blkgayatheist]

Damo thanks for sharing that, I may have to go back and read Black Boy...I read Native Son in school but not black boy (I wonder why). There is also an element of deconversion in James Baldwin's biography, and Langston Hughes admitted to faking his religious conversion in his autobiography the Big Sea.

[Viti]

Hello and welcome :)

You're a friendly sort, I must say.

[Godless Raven]

You're black? No problem man. Welcome.

You're gay? No problem. Welcome man.

You're from WHERE!???? GET OUT!!

Kidding! :D

Welcome

GR

I'm mixed races, but not black.

[blkgayatheist]

You're a friendly sort, I must say.

sometimes...ive had my not so friendly moments on the board....

[Dana]

I met a Black atheist guy here a couple of years ago, actually he was mixed race. He's the only Black atheist male I've met in Dallas. I also knew a Black atheist guy when I was in school in D.C.

I empathize with you. It is extremely hard to find Black atheist men. On the article, a sorta funny story, :

I went on a date with a guy a few years ago and unknown to him he turned me off as soon as we sat down for dinner. How? He took my hands to pray with him! I did not tell him that he lost me at that point, but since in my experience men tend not to wear their religion on their sleeves, I have a feeling that he thought he was impressing me by praying like that and may have made sure to do so because you know how Black women want a good Christian man!

Oh well,
Dana

[blkgayatheist]

I met a Black atheist guy here a couple of years ago, actually he was mixed race. He's the only Black atheist male I've met in Dallas. I also knew a Black atheist guy when I was in school in D.C.

I empathize with you. It is extremely hard to find Black atheist men. On the article, a sorta funny story, :

I went on a date with a guy a few years ago and unknown to him he turned me off as soon as we sat down for dinner. How? He took my hands to pray with him! I did not tell him that he lost me at that point, but since in my experience men tend not to wear their religion on their sleeves, I have a feeling that he thought he was impressing me by praying like that and may have made sure to do so because you know how Black women want a good Christian man!

Oh well,
Dana


thats funny..esp since it is very possible he was perpetrating (or at least embellishing) to score points

[Unbeatable]

Black male atheist here. I'm afraid I'm not going to be terribly helpful to you, as I grew up in a white neighborhood, so I don't really have any experience with the larger black community. The only black people I know are the members of my immediate family, who you can read about in this (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=3862564#post3862564) other post. The only thing to add to that is that my brother used to be an atheist, but now he's schizophrenic, so it's hard to say what exactly he believes but, not surprisingly, he's definitely become more open to irrational supernaturalist ideas since the deterioration of his mental health.

ETA: I did meet one black atheist when I was posting at this other forum. Calls herself Animeg.

[Revasser]

No reason to get your ass kicked for a question I pose myself..in fact I am working on a screenplay (i know so passe) about a black guy who is atheist and has a white friend who poses the same question

My take on it is that a lot of it has to do with the "politics of respectability"...

Do you think education may also have something to do with it?

I'm not any kind of authority of African-American affairs - I've only met a single black American in my life - but from what I hear of the situation in the US, black Americans are less likely, on average, to achieve high levels of education than their white counterparts (I understand this is what Affirmative Action is supposed to be helping to remedy, but I don't know much about it.)

With the correlation between higher education and slackening religiosity, do you think there's a connection in this specific case? As black Americans go on to become, again, on average, more educated, will we see an increase in atheism?

[JoyJuice]

Well, how about black agnostic? Trust me, within my own community I get the "whattttttt" when ever I state my position. :huh:

[SweetReason]

Hmmmm ... as long as you're mentioning Wright, Baldwin, Hughes -- Ishmael Jaffree was plaintiff in an important school prayer case. His bio from when he was named freethinker of the year is at http://www.ffrf.org/awards/ftoy/1985.php
I heard him speak once, thanks to Norm Allen. He seemed like a reaaly warm person. Said the local Unitarians were a great source of support.

[SweetReason]

How would you go about getting it covered? Seriously . Have you talked to IG and/or other folks about it?
Maybe PR for blkgayatheist's play some day, who knows



I'm glad that Sweet Reason posted a reply above, because I'm not aware offhand of any mainstream black publication doing a story about black atheists. It would be a great topic, especially for the mass-market media such as Ebony or Jet. The could interview Reggie, and maybe the guy who's making a splash on YouTube (http://youtube.com/results?search_query=pfunk1&search=Search), PFunk1 (http://pfunk1.com/), helping promote the Atheistic.net (http://www.atheistic.net) site with his awesome clip, ATHEIST WALKING (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2WHf5HFDk10)... but I digress.

I stay well-informed about atheists in the media. In addition to other sources, I get Google News alerts for "atheist" and "atheism," and I can't recall seeing any news story covering the angle of "black atheists" or "atheism in the black community" recently. Or ever. Perhaps we should push the issue...

[Harumi]

I've always been accepted by blacks when I tell them that I'm an atheist. One girl even expressed admiration! :eek: Apparently she found it to be a brave position to take on the god question. It was certainly one of the odder reactions I've experienced.

I'm Asian by the way, you know, the group you can be racist against because we let ourselves get walked all over and won't complain at all. :Cheeky:

[blkgayatheist]

Do you think education may also have something to do with it?

I'm not any kind of authority of African-American affairs - I've only met a single black American in my life - but from what I hear of the situation in the US, black Americans are less likely, on average, to achieve high levels of education than their white counterparts (I understand this is what Affirmative Action is supposed to be helping to remedy, but I don't know much about it.)

With the correlation between higher education and slackening religiosity, do you think there's a connection in this specific case? As black Americans go on to become, again, on average, more educated, will we see an increase in atheism?

That may have some impact, though I believe there is a higher degree of religiosity among blacks with higher educations than their white counterparts, so I think culture/history really has more of an impact

You also have to remember that in this dear country of mine a shocking percentage of college graduates "have doubts" about Evolution and believe in ghosts, ESP and all sorts of things.

[blkgayatheist]

Norma Allen graciously emailed me back and stated that none of the mainstream black magazines have done articles on black atheists and agnostics (though Ebony has published letters to the editors from Atheists and Agnostics) but that local radio stations and local black newspapers have been very responsive and willling to give attention to the issue.

[Revasser]

That may have some impact, though I believe there is a higher degree of religiosity among blacks with higher educations than their white counterparts, so I think culture/history really has more of an impact

You also have to remember that in this dear country of mine a shocking percentage of college graduates "have doubts" about Evolution and believe in ghosts, ESP and all sorts of things.

I dare say you're right about the cultural pressures keeping people religious, especially if there is a high percentage of even highly educated people still remaining in the church. Maybe some of them are just keeping up appearances? We can only hope!

I'm sad to hear about your college graduates. I think, especially with evolution, that the fact that the creationism debate actually has some kind of social legitimacy in your country probably has something to do with that. I know biologists scoff, but they're just amoral, atheist scientists who are going straight to hell. No need to listen to them, right?

[EverLastingGodStopper]

Hey, did you guys hear that you're invisible (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=185474)?

[AthenaAwakened]

Hey, did you guys hear that you're invisible (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=185474)?

Well of course I'm invisible, And right behind you so ... BOO!

[EverLastingGodStopper]

And right behind you
Likewise! In both threads! :p

[engly-saxo]

Ive been on here for a few months ago and am curious about hearing the experience of other black atheists. Ive been on Reggie's site Infidel guy, but for whatever reasons I havent really gotten into the forums there. Would love to hear from you guys

or anyone else who wants to say hello!

I can empathise that it's difficult to be a black athiest.

For some reason, black people are more drawn to religion. I don't really know why!

[Jet Black]

I'm ancestrally black... well several thousand years ago. Does that count?

[premjan]

Are we sure that the UCHA was black? Or maybe brown?

[show_no_mercy]

We have one black ninja (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/member.php?u=17919).


Hey, someone page SNM! :grin:

hahaha

I'm a black atheist from Harlem/The Bronx... though I didn't become an atheist until I left Harlem. At the start of high school, I was a deist of some sort.

[Neo-Nietzschean]

I'm a black atheist. I became one about 12yrs ago after I left fundamentalist christianity. I've never personally met any other black atheists, but it is good to see that there are a few here at IIDB.

[blkgayatheist]

Well according to this guy, we all joined IIDB because other "ethnic folks" think we weird...damn that makes me sooo sad.:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3896333&postcount=20

100th post!! I'm a user

[AthenaAwakened]

Well according to this guy, we all joined IIDB because other "ethnic folks" think we weird...damn that makes me sooo sad.:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3896333&postcount=20

100th post!! I'm a user

:D CONGTRATULATIONS!!! :D

[Revasser]

Well according to this guy, we all joined IIDB because other "ethnic folks" think we weird...damn that makes me sooo sad.:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3896333&postcount=20

100th post!! I'm a user

Is that like a version of "you're just an atheist because you want to be rebellious" tailored specifically for ethnic minorities?

[SweetReason]

He calls that thinking?!
Lots of white atheists are also surrounded by folks who think them weird!

In a little survey I did of my readers, 2/3 of those belonging to some freethought group (including IIDB) do it at least partly for the company. & why not?

Well according to this guy, we all joined IIDB because other "ethnic folks" think we weird...damn that makes me sooo sad.:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showpost.php?p=3896333&postcount=20

100th post!! I'm a user

[Jet Black]

Are we sure that the UCHA was black? Or maybe brown?

Most likely black I would suspect. depends when hairlessness evolved, but I'm not one to quibble.

[Jobar]

I'm white, but one of our longtime theistic regulars, luvluv, is black. He usually posts in the EoG forum.

I've seen some of your posts, bga; I think you'll like it here on II. :)

added- oh yeah, there's a black woman who posts occasionally, lafemmedesfemmes (I think that's right) who I've met personally through the Georgia Humanists group. There's also a regular member of that group, Larry, whose pic is here. (http://home.earthlink.net/~jobar2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/thalialarryashmarkizzy.jpg)

[cyris8400]

American Atheists has a few articles about black atheists (more in the sense of individuals throughout American history than communities). They're the first three essays here (http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/roots/).

I'm 1/4 Native American, myself, though I look indistinguishably white. I probably have a little black in me, but not any significant amount (my tribe is Seminole, which branched off of the Creeks, which were known to have intermingled with blacks).

I find it lamentable that the great percentage of blacks and Native Americans have taken on the religion of their oppressors, although they probably weren't given much choice in the matter at the time, and now it just seems natural to them. White Christians of the time frequently employed the naturalistic fallacy to justify their actions.

Atheism and logic, though, transcend cultural and geographical boundaries.

[blkgayatheist]

American Atheists has a few articles about black atheists (more in the sense of individuals throughout American history than communities). They're the first three essays here (http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/roots/).

I'm 1/4 Native American, myself, though I look indistinguishably white. I probably have a little black in me, but not any significant amount (my tribe is Seminole, which branched off of the Creeks, which were known to have intermingled with blacks).

I find it lamentable that the great percentage of blacks and Native Americans have taken on the religion of their oppressors, although they probably weren't given much choice in the matter at the time, and now it just seems natural to them. White Christians of the time frequently employed the naturalistic fallacy to justify their actions.

Atheism and logic, though, transcend cultural and geographical boundaries.

Thanks for the links to American Atheists, a lot of the names were familiar to me though I was unaware of the atheist viewpoints of many (blame the educational system)

Its sad that there used to be so much more of a diversity of ideological viewpoints among black leaders as compared to now