Origin of Free Masonry, by Thomas Paine

Euclid is one of the most influential and best read mathematicians of all time. His prize work, Elements, was the textbook of elementary geometry and logic up to the early twentieth century. For his work in the field, he is known as the father of geometry and is considered one of the great Greek mathematicians. He was not Egyptian as stated in: Origin of Free Masonry (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/origin_free-masonry.html) by Thomas Paine.

[-DM-]

Thank you for your feedback to Origin of Free Masonry by Thomas Paine. A few points to keep in mind:

This article resides in our Historical Library (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/author.shtml). This section of our Library is accompanied by the following disclaimer: The Historical Library contains all writings written before 1970. For material written during or after 1970, please refer to the Modern Documents section of the Secular Web Library. . . . This section is provided for those doing research into the history of nontheism. It is not intended to be-- and should not be used as-- a source of modern, up-to-date information regarding atheistic issues. Those looking for modern critiques of theism should go to the Modern Documents section of the Library.Thomas Paine died in 1809. This article was published posthumously in approximately 1818.

The reference which states that Euclid was an Egyptian did not originate with Paine, but rather with Samuel Pritchard, whom Paine is quoting. In 1730, Samuel Pritchard, member of a constituted lodge in England, published a treatise entitled Masonry Dissected; and made oath before the Lord Mayor of London that it was a true copy. "Samuel Pritchard maketh oath that the copy hereunto annexed is a true and genuine copy in every particular." In his work he has given the catechism or examination, in question and answer, of the Apprentices, the Fellow Craft, and the Master Mason. There was no difficulty in doing this, as it is mere form.

In his introduction he says, "the original institution of Masonry consisted in the foundation of the liberal arts and sciences, but more especially in Geometry, for at the building of the tower of Babel, the art and mystery of Masonry was first introduced, and from thence handed down by Euclid, a worthy and excellent mathematician of the Egyptians; and he communicated it to Hiram, the Master Mason concerned in building Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem."

--Don--

[Free Mason]

Origin of Free Masonry by Thomas Pain :This guy had alot of facts that were true and alot that were not and only speculatory on his part. "Masons worship the sun" ??? The sun is the light to us that by symbolic means only. The light is God in which we belive in and must believe in or you cannot become a Free Mason. We don't care what religon you are (mosulim, Catholic, Babtist and so on) as long as you believe. This is why it is the worlds largest and oldest Fraturinty. We believe in helping those who need it without asking for the credit and we also believe in forming ourselves to be leaders, role models, and upright moral citicens of any city or town anywhere which most of the world is lacking now. There are guidelines and certain things that havent changed since the begining but it has evolved a little with the centuries to fit the times just like ALL organizations have. The only reason some people cut us down or condem us is because of the "Secret" codes, passwords, and shakes and so on so we can identifi ourselfs to one another as true Free Masons which makes a few narrow minded individuals uncomfortable. The truth is we just want to help others and make a difference and be the moral and just men God wanted us to be. To be a little more open about Masonry we started the organization of "Shriners" Hospitals throughout the nation where we help disabled and burn children from all over the world at NO cost to them or their family. We dont do this for money or fame, we do it for the kids. This great nation was originally founded and built on Free Mason morals and beliefs (Just read our constitution) and you will begin to understand what it means to be a Free Mason.

[-DM-]

Hmmnn. Interesting. Christians, of course, assert that this great nation was originally founded and built on Christian morals and beliefs. Secularists assert that this great nation was originally founded and built on morals and beliefs that reflected a somewhat secular or deistic point of view. It would seem that every different interest group wants to claim responsibility for what is good (and to blame what is bad on the others).

[IRENE]

I would like the guest freemason with the message on 20th dec 2004, or any other reader free mason.
a)Where are women received as freemasons?
b)Are now days women considered potential partners of potentialy great intellectual and psychical strength, not in all cases inferior and in somew cases superior to that of their male collegues?
c) Women with intellectual interrests and historical and philosofical researchers, are they accepted in logges that make research and promote history and philosophy?
Thank you for any answer that you will like to give me.

[JCS]

The only reason some people cut us down or condem us is because of the "Secret" codes, passwords, and shakes and so on so we can identifi ourselfs to one another as true Free Masons which makes a few narrow minded individuals uncomfortable.
I find it a little odd to assert that someone may be uncomfortable with your particular group is simply narrow minded, when you make determined statements such as these...... The light is God in which we belive in and must believe in or you cannot become a Free Mason. We don't care what religon you are (mosulim, Catholic, Babtist and so on) as long as you believe. The truth is we just want to help others and make a difference and be the moral and just men God wanted us to be. This great nation was originally founded and built on Free Mason morals and beliefs (Just read our constitution) and you will begin to understand what it means to be a Free Mason.[/ Isn't it just a little narrow minded to exclude certian people and imply those that do not believe in the unsubstantiated would somehow be unable to fulfill the moral tenet of your organization?

The artical (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/origin_free-masonry.html) implys that the only trustworthy Mason is a Mastor Mason, so even amongst their own ranks judgement is handed out by those that put themselves above judgement. Sounds very familiar, just can't put my finger on it.........

[IRENE]

Hmmnn. Interesting. Christians, of course, assert that this great nation was originally founded and built on Christian morals and beliefs. Secularists assert that this great nation was originally founded and built on morals and beliefs that reflected a somewhat secular or deistic point of view. It would seem that every different interest group wants to claim responsibility for what is good (and to blame what is bad on the others).
Dear friend, it is a fact that the system of the freemasons is at the base of the statal organisation of the united states. Also, it was a freemasons' organisation that started the movement of independance from the old lady Europe. So, it is not a statement of morality, it is a matter of fact.

[-DM-]

Asserting that "it is a fact that the system of the freemasons is at the base of the statal organisation of the united states," etc., in the absence of convincing evidence and/or argument, remains exactly that: unconvincing assertions.

-DM-

[IRENE]

Asserting that "it is a fact that the system of the freemasons is at the base of the statal organisation of the united states," etc., in the absence of convincing evidence and/or argument, remains exactly that: unconvincing assertions.

-DM-
As a result of my various readings till now, i only ment that the technicality of the amsonic lodges is eventually transported in the technicality of various forms of government, particularly in the usa.

[IRENE]

As a result of my various readings till now, i only ment that the technicality of the masonic lodges is eventually transported in the technicality of various forms of government, particularly in the usa.
And i would like to continue here, answering partly as well to the MAson Guest.
Personally i admire the symbols that have been taken over by the speculative masons. Taken, from ancient cults and from the master masons, the stone masons, the medieval builders themselves. Art and artisanat is the apth through which i think the world.
As for mortality... moral issues... Evry oganisation, that it would be a church, a group, an istitution, a masonic lodge... They all present a theory of moral issues. They all present their purposes as highly moral.
a) What is moral?
b) how often all those purposes have been overruled?
In my view, all the groups have an issue; that iof taking rhe control over other groups of humanity. As far as it is not contradiction in itself, they respect eachother's rights, freedoms and lifes. Even inside the goups, when the interrests of the hier hierarchical positioned members are threatened, then they will pubish and destroy even their own memebrs. Morality, then, is meant inside the group - outside, it is th "enemy" and "rightfully" must perish.

People who have what for the moment we can call with the generic term of "humanistic education", plus a minimum of love respect and compassion for our next human being, they can be loving or at least caring, responsible, in the limits of their abilities, and respectful of the space of freedom of thinking and acting of their co-humans.
Then there are people who read the bible, and go to church and immagine that anybody else, out of this scheme of education and behaviour is an irresponsible, dangerous human being.
My answer to them is that there are masses of hypocrites and selfish people who read the bible and go to church and there are masses of caring people who do not like tp go to church or waist their time analising the bible.

[ericole]

I was reading the article on the origins of Freemasonry (written, it seems, by Thomas Paine) when I got to these sentences - "The christian religion and Masonry have one and the same common origin: both are derived from the worship of the Sun. The difference between their origin is, that the christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun, as I have shown in the chapter on the origin of the Christian religion."

Of course, I had to then stop because I knew that I couldn't trust the rest of the article. People who want to believe in only a secular/materialistic origin of everything must use faulty logic on a regular basis, and those of us who have studied these things from their source documents and from unbiased sources can easily spot the inaccuracies. There is so much wrong in the statements about Christianity arising out of a parody of "worship of the Sun" that I don't have the time to refute it all - nor do I have to as it has been done countless times already. It's up to the reader to look that information up. Whether or not a person believes Christianity, there is ample documentation for even an "infidel" to know that Biblical Christianity did not arise from worship of the Sun. How ridiculous!

To learn about such stuff, it is best to go to the sources of those who say they believe it, read what they say, compare that to actual, historical documents - THEN if you want the other side of the story go look at it. To start from a skeptics point of view FIRST, and try to find truth from that, is simply foolish.

Another thing to keep in mind - a denomination, or group that say they are Christian (ie Catholic church, Mormons, etc) do NOT necessarily represent what is true Christianity. To understand that, the source text is the Bible - and nothing else. So, if a group has teachings, or symbology, or anything else that does not line up with Biblical teachings, then using that information to attack Christianity is a logical fallacy, and not defensible.

I'll give two resources for the reader and leave it at that: [offsite URL deleted; see Feedback FAQ (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/announcement.php?s=&forumid=10)]

Enjoy, and actually LEARN something.

[-DM-]

I was reading the article on the origins of Freemasonry (written, it seems, by Thomas Paine) when I got to these sentences - "The christian religion and Masonry have one and the same common origin: both are derived from the worship of the Sun. The difference between their origin is, that the christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun, as I have shown in the chapter on the origin of the Christian religion." It seems that you did not notice the Historical Library Disclaimer. Please see the 2nd post in this thread (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=2131#post2131) and read the disclaimer quoted there.

Of course, I had to then stop because I knew that I couldn't trust the rest of the article.On that reasoning, we should stop reading the Bible after reading just a little of it because we would know that we cannot trust the rest of it.

People who want to believe in only a secular/materialistic origin of everything must use faulty logic on a regular basis, and those of us who have studied these things from their source documents and from unbiased sources can easily spot the inaccuracies.The alleged truth of this unsupported assertion is no more obvious than is the alleged truth of the unsupported assertion that "people who want to believe in creation must use faulty logic on a regular basis, and those of us who have studied these things from their source documents (keeping in mind that there are no originals of any book of the Bible, for example) and from unbiased sources can easily spot the inaccuracies."

Another thing to keep in mind - a denomination, or group that say they are Christian (ie Catholic church, Mormons, etc) do NOT necessarily represent what is true Christianity.Christians themselves cannot agree on what constitutes "true Christianity" (although each of the 20,000+ "Christian" denominations has its own definition of "true Christianity").

To understand that, the source text is the Bible - and nothing else.For starters, read Misquoting Jesus : The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why (http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewBook&id=947)--or one of the other books on the subject of the Bible by Bart D. Ehrman (http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAuthor&id=505)--and you will begin to see that the Bible has undergone some important changes, some accidental and some purposeful, since its unknown beginnings. And given that we have not a single original of any book of the Bible, we cannot really think of the Bible as a source book. In addition, there is good historical data to indicate that much of the symbology and mythology of the Bible is, in fact, indicative of influences of peoples other than those who are the main focus of what is alleged to be biblical history.

-Don-

[Colander of Truth]

..."The christian religion and Masonry have one and the same common origin: both are derived from the worship of the Sun. The difference between their origin is, that the christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun, as I have shown in the chapter on the origin of the Christian religion."

...There is so much wrong in the statements about Christianity arising out of a parody of "worship of the Sun" that I don't have the time to refute it all - nor do I have to as it has been done countless times already. It's up to the reader to look that information up. Whether or not a person believes Christianity, there is ample documentation for even an "infidel" to know that Biblical Christianity did not arise from worship of the Sun. How ridiculous!



Interestingly, although the date is disputed, here is a recent find in Megiddo, Israel, of an early Christian church with a Pisces (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/photogalleries/oldest_church/images/primary/fish_circle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/photogalleries/oldest_church/&h=333&w=461&sz=40&hl=en&start=17&tbnid=VG2kcNlKqxmBTM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmegiddo%2Bchurch%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D) mosiac. The sun entered Pisces approximately at the time of Christ (as a astronomical fact). This would have ended the age of Aries, signified as the sacrifice of a lamb on the celestial cross. C.f. the sacrifice of Taurus by Mithra in many a Tauroctony. The sun's birthday prior to the Christ takeover: Dec. 25. The changing of the year marked by an old man (Santa) and a baby (Jesus) predates the Nativity. The Pope's hat is a fish. He wears the "Fisherman's" ring. Christ was a fisherman. Ezekiel's vision describing God is nothing more than the zodiac. The four archangels are Taurus, (Eagle)Scorpio, Leo, Aquarius. Aquarius is really John the Baptist, who is nothing more than the Nile flood. Lastly, just opposite Pisces, is Virgo, the Virgin.