Suggestions re: the Secular Web

[Brian63]

Currently, there is a new featured article, book, and video at the beginning of every month. I think it would be fresher and generally more to people's liking to have updates made twice a month (every two weeks).

A lot of us are hopelessly addicted to the SecWeb and probably read the stuff within days of it being put up, and then mostly ignore it for another 3 weeks or so. People who are rare or first-time visitors won't know that they are missing anything, but those of us that are regulars will benefit a bit.

Also, if there is a backlog of submissions of articles, books, and videos waiting to get their shot, they will have a better chance if the featured items are rotated through quicker (if there is not a backlog though, then this probably would not work well). 12 different features per year doesn't cover a lot of ground that are of interest to us secularists, but 24 per year would cover much more.

Plausible? Desirable?

Brian

[-DM-]

Hello Brian,

Would twice-a-month updates be desirable? Certainly.

Would twice-a-month updates be plausible? No, not at present.

There are several reasons:

Committee approval is involved in selecting any articles to be published anywhere on the Secular Web, as well as in the selection of a monthly feature article, video, and book. There is a practical limit as to how many article submissions, books, and videos the small committees involved can review and approve in a month's time. Not only that, but the rate of Kiosk submissions is currently quite low. The percentage of those submissions which would qualify as potential feature articles is very small. Then too, there is quite a bit of work involved in editing and HTMLizing a feature article so as to have it ready to go by the first of the month. In other words, it is often a scramble to even be able to publish one new feature per month. In other words, there is no backlog of article submissions, books, or videos waiting to get their shot.

If we had paid staff (we don't) and/or a much larger staff of capable volunteers, and a much higher rate of Kiosk article submissions, it might be different. As things stand, however, we are perking along at about the maximum rate possible.

Regards,
-Don-

P.S. If you haven't yet done so, take a look at the Submission Guidelines (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/submit.shtml) to get an idea of what is involved in the case of article submissions.

[Brian63]

Thanks Don.

I had thought there would be a backlog of videos and books, because I recall some time back a lot of people (in a seemingly short time) making lots of suggestions on books and videos they'd like to see as the featured items, and you admins saying there was a long line of them already for them to get behind. The kiosk submissions I had no idea on though.

Also, I had been under the impression that you, as the feedback editor, are the one who chooses what gets submitted into the kiosk and agora. As you say though, it is the work of several people on a committee.

Thanks for the info!

Brian

[-DM-]

Hello again Brian,

There have been lots of suggestions for books and videos, in general, but not specifically for the monthly featured items (which now involve committee review and selection).

Note: The "Feedback Editor" job is independent of any other Secular Web editor positions. It just happens that I am serving as both the Feedback Editor and the Kiosk Editor. Whereas I had been single-handedly selecting Kiosk articles, it is a fact that I was often torn between wanting to get something new up in the Agora every few days and wanting to improve the quality of what was published. I decided to involve a committee composed of myself and the editor volunteers (see the FAQ (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/faq.html#who) page).

While the quality of the choices will likely increase, the process is even more involved and slower than it used to be (and that was slow enough).

Regards,
-Don-

[Brian63]

Has the SecWeb considered producing and selling bumper stickers, as it does T-shirts? A number of us are already ballsy enough to put pro-atheist and pro-church/state separation bumper stickers on our cars, while fewer probably wear similar shirts.

If that is the case, SecWeb bumper stickers would probably get more visibility and attention for that reason, as well for the fact that more people see the backs of our cars than they see our T-shirts.

If there were a fairly good design, you could probably count me as a committed customer. One with the slogan "A drop of reason in a pool of confusion" is catchy I think, and it would look nice with the water-dropping graphic.

Brian

P.S. On a more general ass-kissing note, I would just like to thank the founders and the current staff of this site again. It was primarily responsible for converting me from a closet-atheist into an atheist-activist. That has turned out to be a fulfilling, fun, and very important cause.

[-DM-]

The Board of Directors considered your suggestion at its last Board meeting (over the weekend), is interested, and is looking into the feasibility. (Keep in mind that it takes a long time from the suggestion phase to the fruition phase even if the suggestion is adopted.)

Thanks again.

-DM-

[klouises]

I found L. Feuerbach's books to be very helpful to me while I was trying to become free of religion. I recommend that they be included in the LIbrary.

[-DM-]

Thank you for the suggestion.

Ludwig Feuerbach died in 1872, I believe. In order to include his works in the Secular Web Historical Library (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/author.shtml) we would have to have a source. What that means is that someone would have to provide Feuerbach's works in digital form. (Note that much of the material in the Historical Library was supplied by Bank of Wisdom (http://www.bank-of-wisdom.com/), having been painstakingly scanned and converted to digital documents by Emmett F. Fields.)

-DM-

[klouises]

Here is the URL of the Feuerbach Archive:
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/feuerbach/index.htm

Does that help?

[enemigo]

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/feuerbach/

works at above link:

The Essence of Christianity, 1841
The Philosophy of the Future, 1843
Lectures on the Essence of Religion, 1851

[-DM-]

Thank you for the URLs. Inasmuch as these works are already published on the referenced site, at most we would probably want to link to them.

Note that all articles which are submitted for possible publication on the Secular Web are evaluated for suitability; the same is true of links: potentially linked articles are evaluated for suitability. Given the lengthy "ToDo" list of articles and links awaiting evaluation, this can take a very long time.

-DM-

[Ken]

In the spirit of the TalkOrigins' Index to Creationist Claims (http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/), it would be great to see an "Index of Christian Claims" (or possibly "Index of Evidence against Christianity") on this site. In discussing the Bible and the Christian faith with believers, I am often challenged to support the conclusions of mainstream scholars such as the notion that heaven and hell were not a part of ancient Jewish theology, or that monolotry was the norm instead of monotheism, etc. A friend of mine maintains that Abraham's statement to his son Isaac that they would go to sacrifice to the Lord and return is sufficient evidence for the concept of the resurrection in OT theology.

There is a lot of great content on this site, but it would be helpful if it could be categorized and indexed in a readily accessible format to respond to assertions like these. Every new article that bears on Christian apologetic arguments or that discredits the Bible could be linked into this overarching framework. There could be categories for the resurrection, prophecies, biblical discrepancies (e.g., Richard Carrier's excellent article on the Roman census at the time of Jesus' birth), ethical problems, etc., each of which could be broken into sub-categories.

I recognize this is a big project and may not be feasible at this point, but I wanted to lay it out as a way of making the voluminous Secular Web content more accessible and effective.

Thanks,

Ken

[-DM-]

Thank you for an excellent suggestion!

It would be a very big project, however, and it remains to be seen if the Board of Directors would consider it doable.

-DM-

[Brian63]

Hello again,

Is there any activity on this? For some reason, today I feel a need to publicize secularism a bit more. This website is fantastic for advocating it.

Brian

[-DM-]

The BOD is involved in a number of other projects which have higher priority. At the moment, there is nothing new to report on this. Sorry.

-Don-

[GPLindsey]

You all may already be aware of this, but every year the Federal Government does a fund-raising drive for charitable causes called the Combined Federal Campaign (CFC). It is the only time there can be an authorized solicitation for charities in the Federal workplace. Federal workers get a thick booklet with hundreds of different organizations to choose from (medical research, religious, educational, legal, environmental, etc.) to which they can make a donation. To get listed, it appears that organizations apply to the local chapters of the CFC; the one for Washington D.C. has a web site at www.cfcnca.org. Getting in the CFC campaign means that millions of Federal workers can learn about your organization and consider it for a donation.

Has the Secular Web ever considered or attempted to get itself included in the annual CFC fundraising drive? I ask because, as I was flipping through this year's booklet, I found the ridiculous "Answers in Genesis Ministries" listed (p.21). It is galling to me to imagine federal workers sitting at their desks and signing up to donate to AIG though a payroll deduction, but they don't have an option to do that for the Secular Web. I don't know the ins and outs of your tax status or the full requirements to get on the CFC list, but I think the Secular Web should qualify. You can either get on next year and get some feds to donate to the Cause, or get refused and then put up a legal fight that you are being unfairly excluded, since they let shit like AIG go in the campaign. It's a win-win for the Secular Web!

[-DM-]

Thank you very much for this info and suggestion. I'll pass it on to the Board of Directors.

Regards,
-Don-

[Bill]

From THIS FAQ ENTRY (http://www.cfcnca.org/aboutus/faqs/#5): Participation in the CFC is determined by either a local or national application process. Charities must apply in order to be included so your favorite charity either has not applied or did not qualify. We suggest that you encourage your favorite charity to apply next year. Check the OPM web site for the national procedures ( www.opm.gov/cfc (http://www.opm.gov/cfc/) ) or the local CFC web site ( www.cfcnca.org (http://www.cfcnca.org/) ). The application period takes place locally in March and April. Its way too late to apply for this year. And also, there is a catch, as indicated by THIS PAGE (http://www.opm.gov/cfc/html/2004appl.asp): The Combined Federal Campaign (CFC) is open to all charitable organizations recognized by the Internal Revenue Service as tax-exempt under Title 26, United States Code, Section 501(c)(3). Applicant organizations must meet the eligibility and public accountability standards detailed in the United States Code of Federal Regulations, Title 5, Chapter 950. National organizations must provide services, benefits, or program assistance in 15 states or in one or more foreign countries. It is the "public accountablility standards" which are a bit daunting: Sec. 950.203 Public accountability standards.

(a) To insure organizations wishing to solicit donations from
Federal employees in the workplace are portraying accurately their
programs and benefits, several standards and certifications must be met
annually by each organization seeking national list eligibility. Each
organization wishing to participate must:
(1) Certify that the organization is a human health and welfare
organization providing services, benefits, or assistance to, or
conducting activities affecting, human health and welfare. The
organization's application must provide documentation describing the
human health and welfare benefits provided by the organization within
the previous year.
(2) Certify that it accounts for its funds in accordance with
generally accepted accounting principles and that an audit of the
organization's fiscal operations is completed annually by an
independent certified public accountant in accordance with generally
accepted auditing standards. Such audit must show expenses by function.
A copy of the organization's most recent annual audit must be included
with the application. The audit must cover the fiscal year ending not
more than 18 months prior to the January of the campaign year to which
the organization is applying. For example, the audit included in the
1994 application must cover the fiscal period ending on or after June
30, 1992.
(3) Provide a completed copy of the organization's IRS Form 990,
including signature, with the application regardless of whether or not
the IRS requires the organization to file this form. IRS Forms 990EZ,
990PF, and comparable forms are not acceptable substitutes. However,
smaller organizations that file the Form 990EZ may submit the 990EZ with
pages 1 and 2 of the Form 990 attached. The IRS Form 990 and audit must
cover the same fiscal period and, if revenue and expenses on the two
documents differ, these amounts must be reconciled in an accompanying
signed statement by the certified public accountant who completed the
audit.
(4) Provide a computation of the organization's percentage of total
support and revenue spent on administrative and fundraising. This
percentage shall be computed from information on the IRS Form 990,
submitted pursuant to Sec. 950.203(a)(3), by adding the amount spent on
``management and general'' (line 14) to ``fundraising'' (line 15) and
then dividing the sum by ``total revenue'' (line 12).
(i) If an organization's administrative and fundraising expenses
exceed 25 percent of its total support and revenue, it must certify that
its actual expenses for administration and fundraising are reasonable
under all the circumstances presented. It must provide an explanation
with its application and also include a formal plan to reduce these
expenses below 25 percent.
(ii) The Director may reject any application from an organization
with fundraising and administrative expenses in excess of 25 percent of
total support and revenue, unless the organization demonstrates to the
satisfaction of the Director that its actual expenses for those purposes
and its plan to reduce them are reasonable under the circumstances.
(5) Certify that the organization is directed by an active and
responsible governing body whose members have no material conflict of
interest and, a majority of which serve without compensation.
(6) Certify that the organization's fundraising practices prohibit
the sale or lease of its CFC contributor lists.
(7) Certify that its publicity and promotional activities are based
upon its actual program and operations, are truthful and non-deceptive,
and make no exaggerated or misleading claims.
(8) Certify that contributions are effectively used for the
announced purposes of the charitable organization.
(9) Certify under which governmental entity the charitable
organization is chartered, incorporated or organized (congressionally
chartered or the state in which it is registered).
(10) Certify that the organization has received no more than 80
percent of its total support and revenues from government sources as
computed by dividing line 1c by line 12 from the IRS Form 990 submitted
pursuant to Sec. 950.203(a)(3).
(11) Certify that the organization prepares and makes available to
the public upon request an annual report that includes a full
description of the organization's activities and supporting services and
identifies its directors and chief administrative personnel. A copy of
the organization's annual report must be included with the application.
The annual report must cover the fiscal year ending not more than 18
months prior to January of the campaign year to which the organization
is applying. A more frequently published document, such as a quarterly
newsletter, may be used to meet this requirement provided that such
document is available to the general public upon request and describes
the organization's activities and supporting services and identifies its
directors and chief administrative personnel.
(12) Provide a statement that the certifying official is authorized
by the organization to certify and affirm all
statements required for inclusion on the national list.
(13) Provide a statement in 25 words or less describing the program
activities of the charitable organization. The 25-word statement need
not include the organization's name. In addition, organizations must
provide a telephone number, dedicated solely for the organization's use,
through which the donors may receive further information about the
organization. Except as provided in Sec. 950.401(k), this information
will be included in the campaign brochure along with the organization's
administrative and fundraising percentage computed pursuant to Sec.
950.203(a)(3).
(b) The Director shall review these applications for accuracy,
completeness, and compliance with these regulations. Failure to supply
any of this information may be judged a failure to comply with the
requirements of public accountability, and the charitable organization
may be ruled ineligible for inclusion on the national list.
(c) The Director may request such additional information as the
Director deems necessary to complete these reviews. An organization that
fails to comply with such requests within 10 calendar days from receipt
of the request may be judged ineligible.
(d) The required certifications and documentation must have been
completed and submitted prior to the application filing deadline.
Applications received that are incomplete may not be perfected during
the appeal process described in Sec. 950.205.
(e) The Director may waive any of these standards and certifications
upon a showing of extenuating circumstances.

{60 FR 57890, Nov. 24, 1995, as amended at 61 FR 4585, Feb. 7, 1996} Small organizations, like the Internet Infidels, will find the above requirements to be a bit daunting.

== Bill

[KeithHarwood]

How did AIG manage it? They are based (to my shame) in Australia.

[GPLindsey]

Thanks for looking it. I'll skip CFC and make sure I donate directly in the future. I refuse to see us bested by AIG!

[Meatros]

I'm not sure if this is appropriate to ask here, but I saw that some debates were available on VHS on the mainpage and I was wondering if there were any plans to make DVD's of the debates available.

In particular, I was wondering if DVD's of Jeffery Lowder's debate with Phil Fernandes would be made available on DVD format in the future.

Thanks,

[-DM-]

Hello Meatros,

This is an appropriate place to ask.

I have heard no plans to republish the debates now on VHS in DVD format, but this I'll consider this a suggestion and bring it to the attention of the Board of Directors.

-Don-

P.S. Keep in mind that even if the Board decided to go ahead with this project, it wouldn't likely happen quickly.

[The Helmetmaker]

I might not be in the right place to suggest this, but I'd like to suggest that the Secular Web publish a blogroll of atheist web logs. I think it's already linked to some webrings, why not blogs? considering their growing popularity.

[-DM-]

This is as good a place as any for your suggestion.

I think it is safe for me to say that this will never likely happen. Why? Because offsite links are so darned difficult to maintain that we are doing away with quite a lot of them that we used to try to maintain.

A quick Google search using "atheist blog" turned up quite a few interesting prospects.

-Don-

[SLD]

I hope this is the proper forum but I just wanted to recommend a great book for the book of the month and that is Susan Jacoby's book, Freethinkers. I believe it is doing quite well and is a great history of the secular movement in the United States.

SLD

[-DM-]

SLD:

This is probably the best place for a Book of the Month suggestion.

And thank you for the suggestion. We'll consider it.

Regards,
-Don-

[Mike101]

Hi there, first of all I would like to say how much I love your site :D. I live not far from London in England, and I was always a little taken aback by how little atheism seemed to be recognised. When I found your site I was over the moon, it was what I was dreaming of! I was wondering however, seeing as I notice you seem to be based mainly in USA and Australia, if it would be possible to do some kind of promotion here in the United Kingdom? A few of my friends are atheists, and I know we all feel the same, under represented and misunderstood. I would love to hear more from you, many thanks,

Mike Licudi.

[-DM-]

Internet Infidels, Inc., operates The Secular Web (http://www.infidels.org). Internet Infidels, Inc., is based entirely in the United States.

In terms of promotion, we don't do much in the way of promotion even here in the United States, although we do enjoy as many as 600,000 unique visitors per month, mostly as the result, presumably, of Net search results.

What sort of promotion did you have in mind?

-DM-

[MollyMac]

Hi Mike

It us up to all users to promote this site - I do at every opportunity, both on-line at other sites and off-line socially and at meetings.

I disagree with what you said about atheism in the UK but perhaps that's something we can discuss on one of the fora.

Best wishes

MollyMac

[Mike101]

Sorry, almost forgot, in response to -DM-, I was thinking promotion as in street team kinda thing perhaps? I made a leaflet sort of thing and my Religious Education teacher put it up in his room, perhaps we could maybe do something like that on a larger scale? Also, would it be possible to borrow graphics/logos or excerpts of material for this promotion?

[-DM-]

Hello Mike101:

Internet Infidels, Inc., itself, is just getting into this sort of thing here in the U. S., having produced some leaflets and such which will be available at debates which it will cosponsor. I doubt if the organization would want to get directly involved in doing something like this in the U.K., at least at present.

Could you borrow graphics and excerpts of material to use to promote Internet Infidels and the Secular Web in the U.K.? I suspect that the Board of Directors would want to exercise oversight of the material. Probably the best way for you to proceed would be to provide the Board with a proposal, including samples. You could use the infidels@infidels.org e-mail address.

-Don-

P.S. Keith Augustine, our Executive Director, put together what I think is a very nice pamphlet about Internet Infidels. That pamphlet, in PDF format, is available here: Internet Infidels Pamphlet (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/pamphlet.pdf). This may be printed out for distribution. Note, however, that it already needs updating.

[Brian63]

Kinda related...

Many of the new additions do not say *where* on the SecWeb they are being added, as they typically have done in the past. A couple of examples:

Da Vinci code review by Robert Price (http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/dvhoax.htm)

Review of "Defeating Darwinism by opening minds" by Massimo Pigliucci (http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/~massimo/reviews/Johnson.html)

If sometime, months in the future, I was trying to find these resources on the SecWeb, how could I go about doing that? Would they appear in the SecWeb search engine?

Brian

[-DM-]

Hello Brian63,

You will almost always find an article listed on the named author's index page. (The rare exception is when a link to an offsite article is listed on a subject page and there is no SecWeb author page for that particular author.)

In the examples you quoted, you could find the articles by clicking on the provided link to the author's index page (the link composed of the author's name, which is a separate link on the "What's New?" page as compared to your links which include both the title and the author's name, all in one).

In terms of listing on the "What's New?" page all of the places in the Library that a link to an article may have been added, that would take some doing inasmuch as links to some articles are listed on numerous subject pages in addition to their listing on the author's index page.

And yes, the search engine should find the articles by article title as well. Although the search engine is not updated instantaneously after the addition of an item, certainly it would have been a few months down the road--and should have been even a few days down the road.

-Don-

[-DM-]

Keith Augustine, our Executive Director and Scholarly Paper Editor, put together what I think is a very nice pamphlet about Internet Infidels. Clark Adams, our Publicity Director, turned it into a PDF file. That pamphlet, in PDF format, is now available here: Internet Infidels Pamphlet (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/pamphlet.pdf). This may be printed out for distribution.

-DM-

P.S. It will also be available from the About Us (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/) page.

[BSM]

Nice job! I know that it may be a day late and a dollar short but have "the powers that be" considered some sort of mention about getting published on the Secular Web? Maybe an additional line in the brochure that reads something like: "Interested in being published on the Secular Web? For more details see http://www.infidels.org/infidels/submit.shtml"

Another aside but I wonder if it would be worth the effort to market the Secular Web to the various freethought groups around the globe by e-mailing them your brochure? Perhaps those listed here?

http://www.infidels.org/org/local.shtml

Or, perhaps trying to get those groups to spread the Secular Web brochure in various public arenas--say, college, university, and public libraries who have public bulletin boards? Or even getting local freethought groups to request that their libraries provide a link to the Secular Web on their library web page. Usually if libraries get enough requests they'll acquiesce to the demands of their patrons.

Another aside but somewhere around my office I have several articles that discuss how the Next Generation is turning more and more to electronic information as opposed to traditional print sources. So, it looks like you guys have been on the mark since 1995. I.E., it's important to have a secular presence in the cyber space areana!

Anyhow these suggestion might be a way to increase membership and also bump up article submissions (assuming that you need an increase of submissions).

Regards,

~BSM

[-DM-]

Nice job! I know that it may be a day late and a dollar short but have "the powers that be" considered some sort of mention about getting published on the Secular Web?Apparently not. :)

But doing so in a future revision would probably be a good idea. I know that we could use more Kiosk submissions, although there is (I think) quite a backlog of Library submissions at the moment.

Another aside but I wonder if it would be worth the effort to market the Secular Web to the various freethought groups around the globe by e-mailing them your brochure?Doing so could be considered spamming, but perhaps there is another way that we could make ourselves better known with these organizations.

Anyhow these suggestion might be a way to increase membershipI'm unsure what you have in mind here. If you have in mind actual membership in Internet Infidels (II), II is not a membership organization; strictly speaking, only the members of the Board of Directors are "Internet Infidels."

Anyway, thank you very much for your suggestions. We'll discuss and consider them.

-DM-

[BSM]

Hmmm...maybe membership was a poor choice of words: How about "increase virtual participation"?

:cool:

Doing so could be considered spamming, but perhaps there is another way that we could make ourselves better known with these organizations.

Perhaps, however I know that I've have seen at least one local group provide brochures and the like to various humanist or freethought organizations. So, there has to be a way to solicit aid at the grassroots level in order to help promote the Secular Web meme.

Just a few thoughts and thanks for considering them!


~BSM

[Unregistered-Lurker]

Would it be possible for the "What's New" section to have an RSS/XML feed? I know the Newswire service has one, I hope that What's New gets syndicated too. So I'd know whenever new content has been added to The Secular Web. Thanks!

[-DM-]

I don't know, but I think that is a good suggestion and I'll bring it up with our Directors.

-DM-

[Scifinerdgrl]

I searched the Secular Web for an article on dominionism and I couldn't find one. I found a few via google searches and some iidb discussions of it, but no match on the Secular Web. Would you consider putting one in the library? I'd like something subject to scrutiny to be available there. It would also be available through google, which I think would be a good thing. Most of what I found doesn't give much background on the writers.

Thank you.

[Meatros]

I've always had an easier time reading books then I have reading stuff off of the internet. I think it has something to do with the fact that I check the internet out while I'm at work.

Something I've been thinking about doing is printing all the secular web articles (or at least a good amount) and the secular web debates and putting them together in a flip book form (nothing spectacular - pretty much just putting printed paper in a binder) and it occured to me: Does the secular web have any interest in converting all it's text materials (the originals) into a *real* book?

What would the difficulties be?


If this is the inappropriate category please move it. Thanks

[-DM-]

Hello Meatros,

Yes, Internet Infidels does have an interest in publishing some articles, debates, and even discussion forum threads in print. In fact, we have considered such projects from time to time and they are still under consideration.

These would need to be in-house projects, however, inasmuch as there are copyrights involved, and inasmuch as Internet Infidels would want to maintain control over any such projects in order to ensure the quality of the finished product(s).

Note: This doesn't preclude you or any individual, however, from printing out what would be strictly for personal use.

-Don-

*** Internet Infidels needs your tax-deductible financial support ***
http://www.infidels.org/infidels/support.html

[seetharaman]

The Board of Directors considered your suggestion at its last Board meeting (over the weekend), is interested, and is looking into the feasibility. (Keep in mind that it takes a long time from the suggestion phase to the fruition phase even if the suggestion is adopted.)

Thanks again.

-DM-

How about "PRAYER IS AN INSULT TO GOD".

Though the infidels may not like the implication of accepting the existence of the God, I dont see how athiests can object to the point it makes. Perhaps u can invite everybody to suggest bumper sticker ideas and select the good ones.

[-DM-]

Hello seetharaman:

Thank you for your suggestion regarding bumper stickers.

How about "PRAYER IS AN INSULT TO GOD".

Though the infidels may not like the implication of accepting the existence of the God, I dont see how athiests can object to the point it makes.I will mention your suggestion to the other members of the Board of Directors.

Keep in mind that Internet Infidels is a nonprofit educational organization dedicated to defending and promoting a naturalistic worldview on the Internet. Naturalism entails the nonexistence of all supernatural beings. Even if only implied, the existence of "God" would not fit well with our mission, thus my guess is that this is not a bumper sticker that Infidels would want to market. We'll see.

Perhaps u can invite everybody to suggest bumper sticker ideas and select the good ones.We have done that previously, and we have someone working on the development of a line of T-shirts and bumper stickers. Unfortunately, there are always so many high-priority items on the "To-Do List" that it takes a very long time for projects such as this one to come to fruition.

Regards,
-Don-

[-DM-]

I hope this is the proper forum but I just wanted to recommend a great book for the book of the month and that is Susan Jacoby's book, Freethinkers. I believe it is doing quite well and is a great history of the secular movement in the United States.

SLDNote that this was made the Book of the Month for November 2005.

-Don-

[-DM-]

Kinda related...

Many of the new additions do not say *where* on the SecWeb they are being added, as they typically have done in the past. A couple of examples:

Da Vinci code review by Robert Price (http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/dvhoax.htm)

Review of "Defeating Darwinism by opening minds" by Massimo Pigliucci (http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/~massimo/reviews/Johnson.html)

If sometime, months in the future, I was trying to find these resources on the SecWeb, how could I go about doing that? Would they appear in the SecWeb search engine?

BrianNote that, in addition to the author's index page, we have now made it policy to list the Library subject pages on which a new article is listed.

-Don-

[seetharaman]

<Even if only implied, the existence of "God" would not fit well with our mission, thus my guess is that this is not a bumper sticker that Infidels would want to market. >

I thought as much. Actually I intended to say "I dont see how thiests can object to the point it makes". There was a typo. Afterall athiests already are in agreement to that point. It is nice to know that u would actually mention the suggestion to other members of the Board.

[seetharaman]

<Even if only implied, the existence of "God" would not fit well with our mission, thus my guess is that this is not a bumper sticker that Infidels would want to market. >

I thought as much. Actually I intended to say "I dont see how thiests can object to the point it makes". There was a typo. Afterall athiests already are in agreement to that point. It is nice to know that u would actually mention the suggestion to other members of the Board.

Hello DM.

Let me elaborate. The bumpersticker "Prayer is an insult to God", I think is provocative and makes one contemplate its implications but would not be considered offensive by Theists! Contrast this to one like "Only fools believe in God" -- I am sure nobody would like to put such a sticker on their bumper.

I also think that half of the evil of religion is in the propagation of prayer and financial gains one makes of the third -party prayer business (TV evangelism et..). Further what is the need to build churches and collect money if nobody is going to pray? Well .....the pastors would think of other things to doin the church no doubt.

So, despite the drawback rightly pointed out by u (implication of the acceptance of God), I think it would be a good sell.

Best wishes. Keep up the good work.

Seetharaman

[seetharaman]

Hi
I read with interest the article by Brian Parra in the Kiosk. It was thought provoking. http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=694

I would have liked to read the feedbacks and the responses to this article by the other readers.

Perhaps you can consider giving a hyperlink to existing feedback about the Kiosk and Library articles below the articles themselves. I dont think it will be problem technically. However doing it for the vast collection in the Secular Web may be impossible. Perhaps a start can be made.

Seetharaman

[-DM-]

Hi
I read with interest the article by Brian Parra in the Kiosk ... I would have liked to read the feedbacks and the responses to this article by the other readers.As of this moment, there has been no feedback other than yours to this article. Had there been, then you would have been able to read the comments of others in the applicable thread here in the Secular Web Feedback Forum. The thread title would reflect the title of the article and include "by" followed by the author's name. (Note that you did not supply the title of the article, and as it happens there are currently three articles by Brian Parra (http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAuthor&id=724) in the Secular Web Kiosk.)

Perhaps you can consider giving a hyperlink to existing feedback about the Kiosk and Library articles below the articles themselves. I dont think it will be problem technically.It is something of a technical problem. To do so would require logging on to the Kiosk server, then finding the article in question, then modifying the article after the fact of publication in order to provide a hyperlink to whatever feedback might have been posted since publication. Further, any such hyperlinks would be broken when and if feedback threads were moved or merged (which they sometimes are).

Inasmuch as all but our Executive Director are volunteers who already have plenty to do, it isn't going to happen. Sorry.

-Don-

[seetharaman]

Thank u for the prompt and detailed explanation. I understand now the problems involved. But to cite another instance, today I reread the article by the Hinduwoman 'Answer to why I am not a Hindu by Ramendranath'. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/a_hindu_woman/answertohindu.html I am very curious to know if Mr. Nath responded and what was his response. Is there any other means of finding out in the absence of a hyperlink to the responses?
Seetharaman.

[-DM-]

I am very curious to know if Mr. Nath responded and what was his response. Is there any other means of finding out in the absence of a hyperlink to the responses?
Seetharaman.1.) Go to the Library author index page (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/author.html) and look for the name of the author ("Nath")--which in this case is there. Click on the name link, and look at the list of articles by that author; you will note that he did not respond to the Hindu Woman article in question.
2.) Look for (or do a search for) a thread in this Feedback Forum with the title of the article in question, "Answer to 'Why I Am Not a Hindu'" and the byline "A Hindu Woman." (You won't find one.)
3.) If interested in comments on the Nath article, look for (or a do a search for) a thread in this forum with the title of the article and/or the name of the author. You would find a thread entitled "Why I Am Not a Hindu, by Ramendra Nath (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=130869&highlight=hindu)."

-Don-

[Equinox]

In the parent's links section, under Boy Scout Alternatives, two or three more options are:

Earth Scouts (earthscouts.org)
Spiral Scouts (spiralscouts.org) and
Scouting for All (http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/home.html)

Should these be added?


Equinox

[-DM-]

Hello Equinox,

Per your suggestion, Earth Scouts (http://earthscouts.org/) was added to the list of Boy Scout Alternatives (http://www.infidels.org/families/parents/links.html#bsa) on the Links (http://www.infidels.org/families/parents/links.html) page in the Parents Corner (http://www.infidels.org/families/parents/).

Note: We declined to include Scouting for All (http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/home.html) because, as EverLastingGodStopper pointed out, Scouting for All is not actually an alternative scouting program, it is a civil rights group dedicated to encourage the BSA to eliminate its prejudiced policy barring atheist and GLBT families and Scouts. We also declined to include SpiralScouts because it is a program for girls and boys of minority faiths which began as an organized children's program within the Aquarian Tabernacle Church.

Regards,
-Don-

[LewG]

As a topic, what about a section devoted to ethics on both popular and scholarly levels?

The tone of secular apologetic debate is often either defensive or offensive in ways that do not attract positive attention from onlookers whose minds might be opened by fair rational analysis. I don't suggest that current efforts cease, by any means. It is a necessary campaign, but it should be supplemented by positive outreach as well.

As an ex-fundamentalist, I am interested in moving on to shape life without religion, without constantly looking backward at issues that I've already decided. I think fundamentalists have shaped a debate that successfully distracts attention from (1) the positive contribution that Reason has made to the world (disguising all with attributions to God's hand) and (2) from the positive contributions that Reason is now making to the world.

I do not think that a carrot and stick beyond nature are the only sufficient bases for proactive compassion, integrity, and other values. Ayn Rand's comment that "words are a tool of honor" is not something that someone from a religious background might expect from an atheist, because antagonists have planted the idea that atheists have no commitment to anything but their own desires.

In general, the image I see is angry and negative instead of the positive and constructive strength that I believe really represents the human mind.

[-DM-]

As a topic, what about a section devoted to ethics on both popular and scholarly levels?Hello LewG:

See the Morality and Atheism (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/nontheism/atheism/morality-and-atheism.html) index page in the Modern Library and/or the Ethics-Morality (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=category&id=7) topic in the Secular Web Kiosk and Bookstore.

-DM-

[wordy]

Ayn Rand is a special case. Sure there are other such atheists too but it is not the majority of atheists in the population but the Ayn Rand types are by their nature very productive in out reach so sometimes they dominate. they are almost like fundy evangelists in loving to do out reach for the cause. while ordinary atheists are more like the ordinary Christian. Caring about family and the near and dear. Not so strident as Ayn Rand types are. She is an exception almost. a small small minority. Suppose there are now 16% non-religious in US. then the strident atheists are maybe 0.5% and the rest 14.5 are only revealing their atheism if attacked by a fervent revivalist.

[ChrisCentner]

Hi! I was wondering if you might add the following organizations to your list. We would be most grateful!

California
Ethical Culture Society of Silicon Valley
District of Columbia
Washington Ethical Society -- Washington -- DC
Illinois
Ethical Humanist Society of Greater Chicago -- Skokie -- Illinois
Maryland
Baltimore Ethical Society -- Baltimore -- Maryland
Massachusetts
Ethical Society of Boston -- Boston -- Massachusetts
Missouri
Ethical Society of St. Louis -- St. Louis -- Missouri
Mid Rivers Ethical Society -- St. Peters -- Missouri
New Jersey
Ethical Culture Society of Essex County -- Maplewood -- New Jersey
Princeton Ethical Humanist Fellowship -- Princeton -- New Jersey
Ethical Culture Society of Bergen County -- Teaneck -- New Jersey
New York
Riverdale-Yonkers Society for Ethical Culture -- Bronx -- New York
Brooklyn Society for Ethical Culture -- Brooklyn -- New York
Ethical Culture Society of Suffolk -- Commack -- New York
Ethical Humanist Society of Long Island -- Garden City -- New York
Ethical Culture Society of Queens -- Jackson Heights -- New York
New York Society for Ethical Culture -- New York -- New York
Ethical Society of Northern Westchester -- Ossining -- New York
Ethical Culture Society of Westchester -- White Plains -- New York
North Carolina
North Carolina Society for Ethical Culture -- Chapel Hill -- North Carolina
Pennsylvania
Philadelphia Ethical Society -- Philadelphia -- Pennsylvania
Texas
Ethical
Society of Austin -- Austin -- Texas
Dallas/Fort Worth Ethical Fellowship -- Grapevine -- Texas
Virginia
Northern Virginia Ethical Society -- Vienna -- Virginia
Washington (State)
Ethical Culture Society of Puget Sound -- Seattle -- Washington
Ethical Society of Seattle -- Seattle -- Washington
Virtual Society -- For all Too Far Away, or Deployed Overseas
Ethical Society Without Walls

[-DM-]

Hello "ChrisCentner":

We would need more information:1.) The website URLs of each of these, and,
2.) the category (local, student, national, international).

I can guess that most are local, and that the Virtual Society should be considered national, but there might be a few that are student organizations.

Please respond via email. Go to the Contact Information (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/contact.html) page, find my name (Donald Morgan) and use the link after my name for the email address.

Thanks,
-DM-

[mountainman]

The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus (http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=238542) - Arthur Drews, 1912.

[Scifinerdgrl]

This looks intriguing:

Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question-Why (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061173975/internetinfidels/)

A Ph.D. in religion who deconverted because of the inconsistencies of the bible.

[-DM-]

The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus (http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=238542) - Arthur Drews, 1912.

Thanks for the suggestion.

We would not likely be interested in adding this book online in the Historical Documents section of the Library (http://www.infidels.org/library/) inasmuch as it is available online elsewhere, and inasmuch as it would take a lot of work to HTMLize it for the Library. On the other hand, assuming that it is in the public domain, if someone were to volunteer to HTMLize it for us then that would be a different story.

Note, however, that the book itself (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1410103390/internetinfidels/) in print form is available from Amazon. I will add it to my list of books to be considered for addition to the Secular Web Bookstore (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=featuredBooks)

-Don-

[-DM-]

This looks intriguing:

Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question-Why (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061173975/internetinfidels/)

A Ph.D. in religion who deconverted because of the inconsistencies of the bible.

Thanks for the suggestion. This is one book that I will definitely add to the Secular Web Bookstore (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=featuredBooks).

Ehrman is a world-class biblical scholar. He chairs the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He is an authority on the history of the New Testament, the early church, and the life of Jesus. According to Wikipedia: "Ehrman became an Evangelical Christian as a teen. His desire to understand the original words of the Bible led him to the study of ancient languages and to textual criticism, which in turn undermined his faith in the Bible as the inerrant, unchanging word of God. Ehrman now considers himself an agnostic." (Which reminds me, I need to add a bio for him in the Bookstore.)

Note: There are a number of books in the Bookstore by Bart Ehrman (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=authors&id=505).

-Don-

[Scifinerdgrl]

I thought it might be an interesting book-of-the-month, but adding it to the bookstore is good too. Thanks.

[-DM-]

Note: To be considered as a Book of the Month, a book must first be in the Bookstore (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=featuredBooks). Adding a book to the Bookstore makes it a candidate for Book of the Month.

[-DM-]

This looks intriguing:

Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question-Why (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061173975/internetinfidels/)

A Ph.D. in religion who deconverted because of the inconsistencies of the bible.

Ehrman's book, God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=books&id=995), is the Secular Web Book of the Month for April, 2008, and available through the Secular Web Bookstore (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=featuredBooks).

[-DM-]

Note: The following two books by Arthur Drews have been added to the Secular Web Bookstore (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=featuredBooks):
The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=books&amp;id=997)
The Christ Myth (http://secweb.infidels.org/?kiosk=books&id=996)

[BrightHelm]

A brief review of this (and indeed many other atheist web-sites) has indicated to me a number of things missing.

The first and most obvious thing on this web-site is :

A suggestion box.

- This whole section appears, on first glance to be feedback but their does appear to be a single thread for suggested improvements.

Awards

- There should be a section highlighting individuals for services, intentional or unintentional to Atheism.

Campaigns

- There should be a section where Atheists can promote Atheist causes. Specifically where there is a political battle - of any size, whether it be school board or US president, between an Atheist, or even a moderate, vs. a religious extremist, people can be asked to contribute to the Atheist cause.
This is one of the most important tools pressure groups like the NRA and Church groups use to enter politics.

Merchandise

- Where do I get my "God is Dead". T-shirt? Blue on White with the words in a Magen David please.

[-DM-]

A brief review of this (and indeed many other atheist web-sites) has indicated to me a number of things missing.
Strictly speaking, this is not an atheistic website. Although all current members of the Board of Directors are nontheists, we have had an agnostic as a Board member. Many of our discussion forum participants are theists, agnostics, and so on.

A suggestion box.
As you can see, your suggestion that we need a "suggestion box" was moved to the equivalent suggestion thread in the Feedback Forum.

- This whole section appears, on first glance to be feedback but their does appear to be a single thread for suggested improvements.
Had you searched on the keyword "Suggestions" in this forum, this thread would have turned up.

Awards- There should be a section highlighting individuals for services, intentional or unintentional to Atheism.
This is a good suggestion for an activist, membership organization, but that is not what we are about. Our focus is purposefully rather narrow: we are an educational organization whose mission is to promote a naturalistic worldview on the Internet. We do that through the publication of articles in the Library (http://www.infidels.org/library/) and Kiosk (http://secweb.infidels.org/), sponsorship of debates, and by providing this discussion forum. As it is, we are spread quite thin in terms of manpower and financial resources.

Campaigns- There should be a section where Atheists can promote Atheist causes.
See the Positive Atheism & Secular Activism Forum (http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=81).

Merchandise- Where do I get my "God is Dead". T-shirt? Blue on White with the words in a Magen David please.
See our Products Page (http://www.infidels.org/infidels/products/).

-DM-

*** Internet Infidels needs your tax-deductible financial support ***
http://www.infidels.org/infidels/support.html

[BrightHelm]

Sorry. The suggestion box was buried. Perhaps it should be pinned?

Okay. Some more suggestions :

Find someone to do a daily/weekly or occasional cartoon? (as a draw.)

Republish (with permission where necessary) cartoons and other images that support the Atheist cause or are absurdly inflamitory. - Such as the Danish cartoons.

Competitions for games/articles/images.

[-DM-]

Sorry. The suggestion box was buried. Perhaps it should be pinned?
At one time, it was pinned. Over time, the number of pinned threads grew to the point that they tended to monopolize the top of the Feedback Forum. Therefore, we decided to pin a "Links to Misc. Feedback Topics" thread. The link to the suggestions thread is there.

Find someone to do a daily/weekly or occasional cartoon? (as a draw.)
We have many times discussed the publication of cartoons and have always decided against doing so.

Competitions for games/articles/images.
This might be a good idea for some certain sites or organizations, but it doesn't fit well with our specific mission. Note, however, that there is a Freethought Humor, Jokes, Etc. (http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=62) forum.

-DM-

[sarpulhu]

Any plans on hosting a wiki that the atheist community could create and work on? Unlike Wikipedia this site could provide a huge resource on atheism from an "Atheist Point of View". I've seen a few small wikis like this but they are usually quite small. Infidels.org would help create a large user base. Just a thought. Dylan.

[-DM-]

Hello sarpulhu,

No, no plans to host a Wiki.

In order to be accepted for publication in the Secular Web Library (http://www.infidels.org/library/), an article submission must successfully pass peer review under the direction of our Scholarly Paper Editor. In order to be accepted for publication in the Secular Web Kiosk (http://secweb.infidels.org/), an article submission must be approved by a six-member editorial committee, under the direction of our Kiosk Editor. These procedures tend to enhance the quality of the article published, and of the site itself. The same degree of control could not so effectively and efficiently be exercised over a Wiki.

-DM-

*** Internet Infidels needs your tax-deductible financial support ***
http://www.infidels.org/infidels/support.html

[wesmc]

I would love an RSS feed for the "What's New" section (http://www.infidels.org/new.html) of the Secular Web. It would make it a lot easier for me to keep up-to-date on what is going on here. Would adding that be possible?

[-DM-]

RSS feed for "What's New"? Possible, yes. We'll look into it.

[wesmc]

RSS feed for "What's New"? Possible, yes. We'll look into it.

Thanks; that would be great!

[sarpulhu]

Any plans? I think a wiki with a license like Wikipedia and atheist information from an atheist point of view instead of a neutral point of view like Wikipedia would be very useful on infidels.org. Using the same license would allow information to be traded back and forth from Wikipedia. Just an idea.

[-DM-]

sarpulhu:

See the response to your previous post on this subject, above, post #74.

-DM-