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lpetrich
May 8, 2007, 07:43 AM
Why the Gods Are Not Winning (http://richarddawkins.net/article,956,Why-the-Gods-Are-Not-Winning,Edge-Gregory-Paul-amp-Phil-Zuckerman)

is a nice article on continued secularization trends, though it does make an excessively simplistic dichotomy between American and European social conditions. They suggest that it is affluence that produces lack of religion, rather than any reverse sort of causality (religion -> poverty or lack of religion -> affluence), which raises some awkward policy questions for those who consider the religion business a Good Thing.

After noting claims of religious resurgence, the article took a longer view, noticing the slow decline over the decades. Noting figures from the World Christian Encyclopedia,
The evangelical authors of the WCE lament that no Christian "in 1900 expected the massive defections from Christianity that subsequently took place in Western Europe due to secularism…. and in the Americas due to materialism…. The number of nonreligionists…. throughout the 20th century has skyrocketed from 3.2 million in 1900, to 697 million in 1970, and on to 918 million in AD 2000…. Equally startling has been the meteoritic growth of secularism…. Two immense quasi-religious systems have emerged at the expense of the world's religions: agnosticism…. and atheism…. From a miniscule presence in 1900, a mere 0.2% of the globe, these systems…. are today expanding at the extraordinary rate of 8.5 million new converts each year, and are likely to reach one billion adherents soon. A large percentage of their members are the children, grandchildren or the great-great-grandchildren of persons who in their lifetimes were practicing Christians" (italics added).

They note the growth of Islam, but conclude that that is due to Muslims having a higher birthrate, rather than mass conversions to Islam.

The mass loss of popular faith in the Eurocultures is often waved away as an isolated aberration in a world still infatuated with the gods. After all, who cares what the "old Europe" of France and Sweden is up to? This is a big mistake. Such a thing has never been seen before in history. And where it has happened is critical to the future of faith. Aside from constituting proof of principle that religion is dangerously vulnerable to modernity, that secularism and disbelief do best in nations that are the most democratic, educated and prosperous directly falsifies the Shah and Toft thesis that these factors are the allies of religiosity.

But hasn't the loss of faith in old Europe been matched by a great revival in new Europe? In his account of his voyage along the Siberian Lena River, Jeffrey Taylor in River of No Reprieve observed that the locals remain atheistic, and the religious minority seems more nationalistic than devout. This premise is applicable to former KGV officer Putin's embrace of the Russian Orthodox church, which had tight connections with the Czarist secret police. Just a quarter of Russians absolutely believe in God, the portion who say that religion is important in their lives are down in the teens, and irreligion may be continuing to rise in very atheistic eastern Germany and the Czech Republic. Even in Poland, the one eastern bloc nation in which religion played an important role in overturning atheistic communism, just one third consider religion to be very important in their lives, and faith is declining towards the old European norm. It turns out that the "new" Europe is not turning out particularly godly.

The Central Kingdom has never been especially religious, became atheistic under communism, and is striving for world dominance via materialistic consumerism. The finding by the Shanghai university poll that religious Chinese lifted from 100 million in the 1960s to 300 million resulted in headlines along the lines of "Poll Finds Surge of Religion Among Chinese." But the 300 million figure is far below the 600 million religious estimated by the World Christian Encyclopedia, and is less than a third of the adult population. Nor should monotheists be particularly comforted. The survey uncovered 40 million Christians, about half the inflated estimate in the WCE, and just 4% of the adult population. Most religious Chinese are Buddhists and Taoists, or worship the likes of the God of Fortune, the Black Dragon and the Dragon King. By the way, The Economist says women are using religion as a way to battle traditional Chinese patriarchy. If the survey is correct that over two thirds of Chinese are not religious then they may approach a billion in China alone, expanding the global total even further.

Mass devotion remains strong in most of the 2nd and 3rd world, but even there there is theistic concern. South of our border a quarter to over half the population describe religion as only somewhat important in their lives. Rather than becoming more patriarchal as democracy and education expand, Mexico is liberalizing as progressive forces successfully push laws favoring abortion and gay rights to the vexation of the Roman and evangelical churches. There is even trouble for Islam in its own realm. A third of Turks think religion is not highly important in their lives, and Iranian urban youth have been highly secularized in reaction to the inept corruption of the Mullahs. In Asia 40% of the citizens of booming South Korea don't believe in God, and only a quarter (most evangelical Christians) identify themselves as strongly religious.
So many of the inhabitants of ex-Communist countries have stayed Godless :D

Secularization is happening here also, though more slowly than in European countries. Since the 1970's, Bible literalists have dropped from 40% to 30%, and Bible skeptics, who view the Bible as a "mixture of history, fables, and legends", rose from 10% to 20%. In a few decades, the Bible skeptics may start to outnumber the Bible literalists.

Those who don't believe in a god have grown in numbers since the 1940's and 1950's, when only 1 - 2% would own up to that belief -- now it's up to something like 9% disbelieving in a creator and 12% not being sure.

Peter Kirby
May 8, 2007, 09:11 PM
There was an interesting comment on the youth in the U.S. being disaffected towards religion. What is the statistical/empirical evidence there?

douglas
May 8, 2007, 10:20 PM
Thanks for sharing. In the article they say...
The more national societies that provide financial and physical security to the population, the fewer that will be religiously devout. The more that cannot provide their citizens with these high standards the more that will hope that supernatural forces will alleviate their anxieties. It is probable that there is little that can be done by either side to alter this fundamental pattern.
They suggest that if the US gets nationalized health care, religious beliefs will go down. You mentioned this causal relationship in your OP, lpetrich and I do agree that it seems to be the thrust of their article. I've never thought of it this way, but it makes sense, and helps explain why the religious right instinctively fights so hard against these "big government" programs. They're afraid of losing their raison d'etre.

naturalist.atheist
May 8, 2007, 10:36 PM
I've been to new Europe, and they are very religious and very poor. I think it was yet another myth of communism that all the people of the state were atheists. Where I was in the country side there were a great many churches that well preceded the communist era, and they didn't look like they had ever shut down and they were going strong. So any claim that somehow religion in new Europe is on the upswing is a misrepresentation. It was never diminished in the first place, perhaps suppressed but not diminished. And if Christians know how to do anything it is to keep the faith when they are being oppressed. Freedom could be the worst thing to ever happen to them.

c davis
May 9, 2007, 05:29 AM
Freedom could be the worst thing to ever happen to them. naturalist.atheist

Interesting statement to make...What do you mean?

Clivedurdle
May 9, 2007, 08:53 AM
Freedom may be the worst thing ever to happen to them because it makes them ordinary, like any other club or society, they can be ignored. The Pope is only a powerful trekkie.

Might we be making things worse by tormenting them and persecuting them?

:devil1:

Even if we are, it's too much fun to stop!

credoconsolans
May 9, 2007, 02:32 PM
Freedom may be the worst thing ever to happen to them because it makes them ordinary, like any other club or society, they can be ignored. The Pope is only a powerful trekkie.

Might we be making things worse by tormenting them and persecuting them?

:devil1:

Even if we are, it's too much fun to stop!

Bingo. The Jewish community experiences this a lot.

To paraphrase a Polish Jew survivor from WWII living in the U.S. , "When we were in Poland, they tried to force us to not be Jews, the more we remained Jews. Now, we're in America where they do not care. Now we become Americans."

I can't find it, but there was a cute political cartoon that had a Jewish woman marrying a Gentile with the caption "The Final Solution." Assimilation.

Jewish women who aren't quite attractive enough to find a nice Jewish husband, but can find a husband outside their religion are flummoxing Rabbis to try to find a response to them as to why they should have to live alone to honor their religion when they could marry and have children and a full life - but outside their religion. Fewer and fewer Jewish women are accepting lifelong sacrifice to their religion.