Really Mitt, you can't think of anything?

[nogods4me]

Trying to downplay the past of the Mormon church, I guess. from an upcoming 60 miutes interview:

"I have a great-great grandfather. They were trying to build a generation out there in the desert and so he took additional wives as he was told to do. And I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy," he said.

How about you folks? Can you think of anything more awful? ME, I can come up with a very long list.

[Overkill]

I don't even see why it should be banned. If a wife wants multiple husbands or a husband wants multiple wives and everyone is happy with it what is the big deal? I hope polygamy laws go the way of miscegenation laws.

[naturalist.atheist]

I don't even see why it should be banned. If a wife wants multiple husbands or a husband wants multiple wives and everyone is happy with it what is the big deal? I hope polygamy laws go the way of miscegenation laws.

I suspect that sometime in the future the idea of a long term monogomous relationship will go the way of the dodo. Most Christians today already practice polygamy, but they do it serially.

[Sarpedon]

Umm, sure, then rich men have a dozen wives, and poor men wander around, unsexed and lonely.

Sounds wonderful, Overkill. Great recipe for social stability.

[naturalist.atheist]

Umm, sure, then rich men have a dozen wives, and poor men wander around, unsexed and lonely.

Sounds wonderful, Overkill. Great recipe for social stability.

Sounds like an argument for legalized prostitution.

[trendkill]

Maybe he meant he would never want to practice it himself. Brigham Young is supposed to have said that when he finally agreed to take multiple wives, that was the only moment in his life when he wished for death. :P

[GenesisNemesis]

I don't even see why it should be banned. If a wife wants multiple husbands or a husband wants multiple wives and everyone is happy with it what is the big deal? I hope polygamy laws go the way of miscegenation laws.

It probably has to do with Adam and Eve, since they were only one man and one woman. Oh. Nvm. They didn't exist. Maybe some OT law?

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

As an ex-Mormon myself, this is a very interesting comment.
I've seen Mormons rationalise this comment as meaning something like 'I couldn't think of anything more awful than being asked to live polygamy', rather than polygamy being awful itself.

A lot of other Mormons are seeing this as more evidence of his 'flip-flopping' need to appease the general public. Some of them are very critical of his 'flip-flop' on the issue of abortion.

[Pseudo-Deity]

Umm, sure, then rich men have a dozen wives, and poor men wander around, unsexed and lonely.

Sounds wonderful, Overkill. Great recipe for social stability.It would probably increase the size of the upper-middle classes and minimize the size of the lower class. More people will be able to afford getting a great education, etc. The unsexed men could share wives or hire sex workers. I wouldn't mind a society in which polyamory was equally as acceptable life-style choice as monogamy. Of course, it would only work if the same standards that apply to men get applied to women as well.

[drewjmore]

... it would only work if the same standards that apply to men get applied to women as well.
How fair is this really: they've got all the pussy!!:devil3:

[DMB]

It would probably increase the size of the upper-middle classes and minimize the size of the lower class. More people will be able to afford getting a great education, etc. The unsexed men could share wives or hire sex workers. I wouldn't mind a society in which polyamory was equally as acceptable life-style choice as monogamy. Of course, it would only work if the same standards that apply to men get applied to women as well.
OK in theory, but I doubt that all that many women would seriously want it. I like having male friends but would certainly not want more than one husband and I find with my female friends that the older we get the less likely we seem to be even to contemplate remarriage if we were to lose the husbands we have.

[espritch]

In the Red Queen, Matt Ridley noted that many human societies have had polygamy involving one man with many wives, but I don't think there has every been a society involving one wife with many husbands. Boys don't really like to share their women.

The problem with polygamy is that it generally means the wealthy and powerful men get a lot of wives and poor and less powerful men go without. This leaves those men who don't get the girl with a lot of pent up sexual frustration that manifests as violence.

[DMB]

In the Red Queen, Matt Ridley noted that many human societies have had polygamy involving one man with many wives, but I don't think there has every been a society involving one wife with many husbands. Boys don't really like to share their women.

The problem with polygamy is that it generally means the wealthy and powerful men get a lot of wives and poor and less powerful men go without. This leaves those men who don't get the girl with a lot of pent up sexual frustration that manifests as violence.

Polyandry has been (and still may be, for all I know) practised in the Himalayas, but it is usually a marriage between a woman and a set of brothers.

I googled this but didn't find all that much e.g. this (http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/tibetanSociety/marriage.htm). There is also a Wiki article on polyandry.

From what I have read about this in the past, it is certainly not a recipe for female emancipation. The poor woman just gets bossed around by several men instead of just one.

[premjan]

There is matrilineality where the woman has no husbands but only lovers, but property is inherited through the female lineage. The woman's brothers help to raise her kids. Apparently once squabbling between males for property commences, matrilineality is not practical.

[OldYgg]

I don't even see why it should be banned. If a wife wants multiple husbands or a husband wants multiple wives and everyone is happy with it what is the big deal? I hope polygamy laws go the way of miscegenation laws.

You would make Robert A Heinlien proud.

Old Ygg

[OldYgg]

Maybe he meant he would never want to practice it himself. Brigham Young is supposed to have said that when he finally agreed to take multiple wives, that was the only moment in his life when he wished for death. :P

Having been married for ten years, I couldn't imagine having more than one wife.

Maybe a concubine, but I hear that's over-rated as well.

Who could afford multiple wives? I've got two kids, want three and wonder if it is going to drive me destitute.

Now, group marriage, multiple men and women and lots of kids, that could work.

Old Ygg

[Overkill]

You would make Robert A Heinlien proud.

Old Ygg

Who? Just kidding, everybody knows him, the old crank.
Gee, poor people having a hard time getting married. I'm glad monogamy has completely solved that problem.
/$1.98 in my pocket right now
//Can't even remember the last time I even got close to getting laid

[OldYgg]

Who? Just kidding, everybody knows him, the old crank.
Gee, poor people having a hard time getting married. I'm glad monogamy has completely solved that problem.
/$1.98 in my pocket right now
//Can't even remember the last time I even got close to getting laid

Well, you aren't going to get there with $1.98. Gas was $2.87 when I filled up this afternoon.

Old Ygg

[Overkill]

$2.87? You lucky bastard, its $3.20 where I live.

[ziffel]

I suspect that sometime in the future the idea of a long term monogomous relationship will go the way of the dodo. Most Christians today already practice polygamy, but they do it serially.

Agreed. Back in the 80's when I worked at very large fundy churches in Orlando, half the damn staff was having affairs. There was always drama of that type.

[axolotl]

It is difficult for me to take Mitt seriously, for a wide variety of reasons. Number one is: who would name their kid for a piece of baseball equipment??

[OldYgg]

$2.87? You lucky bastard, its $3.20 where I live.

Holy Crap!!!!

[Overkill]

Yeah, just the regular stuff. And their are plenty of places where it is being sold even higher just within Wisconsin. Thats an all time adjusted-for-inflation Wisconsin high. Fuck you very much, President Bush!
Mitt Romney seems slightly loopy to me. Guiliani and McCain are full out whacked. The only Republican I'd vote for at this point is Ron Paul. I'd take him over Hillary. I think America would, too.

[rjf]

As an ex-Mormon myself, this is a very interesting comment.
I've seen Mormons rationalise this comment as meaning something like 'I couldn't think of anything more awful than being asked to live polygamy', rather than polygamy being awful itself.

The best part is when they try to make it sound like a huge sacrifice--someone coming to them and saying, 'the lord really needs you to do this' and they respond 'well, if the lord wants me to, I guess I have to.'

[EthnAlln]

It looks to me as if Mitt is trying to have it both ways. If a candidate wants the populace to vote for him because he is a "man of faith" who will "take his faith with him into the White House" (John Kerry), then he can't cry foul if people take a really hard look at what that faith IS. And Mormonism is one of the craziest cockamamie cults ever invented by the kookoo fringe of humanity.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

The best part is when they try to make it sound like a huge sacrifice--someone coming to them and saying, 'the lord really needs you to do this' and they respond 'well, if the lord wants me to, I guess I have to.'


It is quite funny watching a Mormon trying to convince somebody that Joseph Smith started marrying lots of women for any reason OTHER than sex ;)

[Mr. B]

"I have a great-great grandfather. They were trying to build a generation out there in the desert and so he took additional wives as he was told to do. And I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy," he said.

How about you folks? Can you think of anything more awful? ME, I can come up with a very long list.As far as I'm concerned, almost everything is more awful.

In the Red Queen, Matt Ridley noted that many human societies have had polygamy involving one man with many wives, but I don't think there has every been a society involving one wife with many husbands. Boys don't really like to share their women.

The problem with polygamy is that it generally means the wealthy and powerful men get a lot of wives and poor and less powerful men go without. This leaves those men who don't get the girl with a lot of pent up sexual frustration that manifests as violence.So, instead, we have serial polygamy, where rich guys monopolize a string of young women's most fertile years; when one gets a little old, out she goes for another--think, for example, Donald Trump.

If some guy gets, say, five young woman in their prime, he's deprived four young men of their chances--it just doesn't happen all at once.

[OldYgg]

As far as I'm concerned, almost everything is more awful.

So, instead, we have serial polygamy, where rich guys monopolize a string of young women's most fertile years; when one gets a little old, out she goes for another--think, for example, Donald Trump.

If some guy gets, say, five young woman in their prime, he's deprived four young men of their chances--it just doesn't happen all at once.

Actually, when you combine the divorces with the serial polygamy, it is probably worse than polygamy. I mean, we have definite proof that children suffer horribly when the parents get divorced, do worse in school and life and have trouble trusting people enough to get married themselves.

Clearly, Group families are the answer. :)

Old Ygg

[Vivo]

Polygamy makes dysfunctional ass families, and is just plain weird.

[OldYgg]

Polygamy makes dysfunctional ass families, and is just plain weird.

Well, as for polygamy making dysfunctional ass families, I would say you need to prove your point.

Certainly, polygamy, in which young women are 'impressed' in to being a young wife of many wifes to a single male, forced to bear many children and has few benefits - is very bad for pretty much everyone involved.

Which is where I'd tend to not mind the idea of group families. There was even a good SF short story in which everyone ended up going in to group families, because it became so expensive to have and raise children that they needed the incomes of 4 people to support a single child. Fortunately, that bit of prognostication didn't come true.

Heinlein offers some group family ideas that could be workable.

Anyway, just because it is different or weird, doesn't mean that it couldn't lead to a stable society. A group family would really be a return to extended families - except that the members of the extended family might not necessarily be related by blood.

But still, in our society, culturally, we are taught and ingraned in the ideas of jealousy, 1 magic person to fall in love with (which we all know is wrong, due to the incredibly high divorce rate we have) and the idea that somehow, tax laws built in to the current idea of marriage and of course, the idea that someone that is involved in a group marriage has too much of a good thing (in fact, a judge said that to a woman who was on an MTV show - who had a husband, and a live-in boyfriend and a child. The judge took her child away without investigating if any harm was done to her.

It is simply another kind of bigotry that the judge practiced, that when people practice a lifestyle that is too different from anything in their experience, they cause brain farts all over other people's brains.

Old Ygg

[EthnAlln]

In the Red Queen, Matt Ridley noted that many human societies have had polygamy involving one man with many wives, but I don't think there has every been a society involving one wife with many husbands. Boys don't really like to share their women.

I've heard that in Tibet it is impossible for one man to support a stay-at-home wife. As a result, most women must remain single and work to support themselves. A few women then get multiple husbands to wash and cook for.

But I don't actually know this. It's hearsay.

[premjan]

It is due to the shortage of agricultural land IIRC and having brothers marry a single woman eliminates problems with division of property. Same motivation for Draupadi marrying the five Pandavas in the Mahabharata.