Church bells violate noise ordinances?

[Rigel]

Something I have wondered about from time to time. The town I live in has a noise ordinance that states sounds that can be heard from beyond 25 feet are a violation. This is mostly aimed at stereos and parties and the cops are pretty good at enforcing it, as most violators are college students. My question concerns the church bells that are audible from several blocks away. I am not anxious to be demonized by all the nutcase fundies here in Podunk, USA but have wondered what would happen it a complaint was brought to city hall. Anyone ever faced this, or heard of it being addressed anywhere else? I imagine the fundie opposition would be quite vocal if the sound were a call to prayer from a moslem minaret blasting all over town.

[Matty]

I've wondered the same on many occasiosn. Bastards waking me up on a hungoer sunday have often brought the consideration to the front of my mind.

I'd bet money there is a fucking exemption like with taxes, for places of worship. Though when we got married (church wedding of course!!!) we did have to put in a form requesting bells because they were "out of hours" . whether that was to do with local regulations or the availability of tyhe
campanologisys i have no ide. This was in teh uk too, where there isnt the sort of rampant fundyism you guys regularly have to contend with.

And i bet you're spot on about the mosques too. On my many visits to Turkey they sound out at all manner of times, i cant see that going down too well in bible belt US.

[atheistica]

I guess you don't watch Daily Show??

http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/index.jhtml?ml_video=83312

[Toto]

There is a website devoted to noise restriction ordinances - http://www.nonoise.org/index.htm - and it lists a number of laws. Many have specific exemptions for church bells, along with warning sirens, leaf blowers, etc.

[Worldtraveller]

Most noise ordinances are also only effective during specific hours. After 9pm and before 7am is a common time frame. This allows construction companies to begin work early when necessary, but also allows teh majority of the population to sleep during the normal sleeping times.

As one who spent a long time working graveyard shifts, it can be quite annoying. Most churches, synagogues, and mosques don't have services early or late enough to violate noise ordinances. And few church bells are loud enough to violate the really broad noise ordinances that are always in place.

As irritating as they can be, I have yet to hear a church bell ringing that sets my teeth on edge and makes me wish for a large caliber weapon in a way that approaches what I feel when some idiot drives through my neighborhood with the base on his car stereo turned up so loud it rattles the windows of my home. :angry:

Cheers,
Lane

[Rigel]

As irritating as they can be, I have yet to hear a church bell ringing that sets my teeth on edge and makes me wish for a large caliber weapon in a way that approaches what I feel when some idiot drives through my neighborhood with the base on his car stereo turned up so loud it rattles the windows of my home. :angry:

I agree. At least you may take some small comfort in the fact that most of these assholes will be deaf by the time they are 30. Invest in Miracle Ear now!

[joedad]

The church across the street used to have the standard bell thing at noon and 6pm. It never did the bell thing before masses which was the case when I was growing up.

But now that church does chimes, and they sound pretty damn good. Sure, they’re old Christian songs but it’s not that damn stupid monotone bonging that seems to go on forever.

I’d rather they weren’t making any noise at all but the chimes are a definite improvement. And the fact that it only occurs at noon and 6pm is tolerable.

[enoch007]

I am sorry, I suppose, but I still hold an old fashioned affection for the sound of bells. They can bong or play some simple tune, I kinda like it in the mornings. I like the sound of locomotive engines also. If one is truly disurbed by this sound I think you should prepare yourself to be, firstly, laughed out of court, and secondly, with the spread of gossip and even possibly media, to be utterly derided and harrassed. Unless we take the step of burning the churches down ala Revolution, I think it is more trouble than it is worth for some 15-30 seconds of ambient sound (you can't re-route the railroad either).

[Garrett]

I'm with enoch on this. I doubt the issue is really the noise anyway.

[Cross_]

Damn church bells kept waking me up every Sunday when I was trying to sleep in. Eventually I did fall back asleep and shortly thereafter my neighbors would turn on their stereo (yay bass! :( ). It was past 8 am so noise ordinance is not in effect. Must be great to be a morning person...

[mac_philo]

I find it hard to believe any reasonable ordinance would prohibit churchbells. If they did, you would never be able to have a construction site.
The town I live in has a noise ordinance that states sounds that can be heard from beyond 25 feet are a violation.
That sounds strict! Public conversation and laughter would constantly violate this ordinance. So would driving a car. Don't even think about bouncing a basketball. Are you sure that the ordinance does not have other clauses?

[beavah]

Leave it up to Kansas to have an ordinance specifically making it a misdemeanor (http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/cities/wichita/index.htm) to interrupt a chuch service.


Section 5.24.020 Disturbance of public worship.


Every person within the city limits who at any time interrupts or molests any religious society or any member thereof or any persons, when meeting or met together for the purpose of worship or performing any duties enjoined on or appertaining to them as members of such society, or disquiets or disturbs any congregation or assemblage of people, met for religious worship, by making a noise or by rude and indecent behavior or profane discourse within their place of worship, or so near to the same as to disturb the order or solemnity of the meeting, or menace or assault any person being there, is guilty of a misdemeanor; provided, that this section shall not be so construed as to deprive any religious society or assemblage of persons met for a religious purpose of the right of laying hands upon the persons who may be disturbing the congregation and turning them out of the church or place of worship. (Ord. No. 11-592 § 47)

So if you went over to the church and told them to stop ringing the bells yourself you'd be breaking the law, in Kansas anyways.

[mopedmatt]

So here is my situation: I live about 200 yards from a Methodist church in a small town in a rural part on Northern New York(1200 people). I've lived here about two years now, and I love it. During this last Christmas season, the church decided that they would begin using their "church bells"(actually loudspeakers) on a regular basis. "Regular basis" means that between 8 am and 9pm every day of the week, the "bells" not only mark the hour, but also ring every 15 minutes. At the hour and every hour at least two, and sometimes as many as four different religious hymns are played through the speakers for all to hear. Without knowing how many decibels the bells are at my house in the living room, I'll just say that in the winter time with the house totally closed up, the dryer going and background music on, I still here them loud enough to be distracted. When the Church first started using the bells on a regular basis, I figured it was to celebrate the Holiday season; or course, at least 2 or 3 christmas carols would be played every hour on the hour until just after new years. They switched over to hymns soon after, and haven't quit since. Having grown up in your quintesential New England small town and being raised Roman Catholic, I've heard a lot of church bells. I certainly have no problems with living close to a place of worship, and just about everyone I've met who is involved with the church has been great. I almost feel bad for becoming annoyed with the intensive "belling" I've been getting lately, but I'm afraid that the church might have gone a little overboard with it (I suspect thay must have been pretty excited when they got their new "sound system" installed). I haven't taken any action on the issue- yet. I'm trying to gain insight from friends family and anyone else(hence this posting) who might have some ideas on how I should approach this issue. Does this amount of bell ringing seem excessive? how often are the bells rung in your town on any given day? Two bell ringing sessions were experienced during the writing of this message...
Matt

[whichphilosophy]

Lucky for those of you who have never lived and worked in the middle east. The mosques which nowadays use high power speakers bellow out from around 04.00 am each morning the call for prayer and sometimes sermons. In fact each morning it's not just one moque but dozens. Then these go on periodically throughout the day until sunset.

[Trout]

Strictly speaking the ordinances probably do apply. Even considering the hours, things like construction sites are temporary so not really applicable here. Anyone blasting music every sunday would probably be stopped for example.

The basic issue is that ordinances are in place but not enforced by cops/whatever unless acting on a complaint. Cops don't cruise neighborhoods listening for parties for example and could usually care less about enforcing local by-laws. Build a fence 3 feet higher than you're allowed to and you'll have it forever until someone calls city hall.

Cops go after they are called by someone and not many people want to be the guy who complains about church bells.

If you decided to fight the bells I would judge your success by the type of town you live in and you personal fortitude meaning, be prepared for local news people to show up at your house and be labled the anti-church, evil guy. If the town is non-religious then you might succeed but churches are powerful and I would expect that the town might enact an exception for bells even if you won a temporary ban.

Tough slog.

[Malintent]

It sounds to me like a polite conversation with the priest (or whatever that particular brand calls their shepherds) could clear things up easily. If that does not go as well as you would like, then a walk over to the city hall to mention you had a polite conversation with father-whatever, but unfortunately have been forced to file a complaint. Note.. there may be exceptions to noise ordinances for Church BELLS.... it sounds like you can phrase your complaint that they are blasting their PA system, though.

[Nice Squirrel]

Something I have wondered about from time to time. The town I live in has a noise ordinance that states sounds that can be heard from beyond 25 feet are a violation. This is mostly aimed at stereos and parties and the cops are pretty good at enforcing it, as most violators are college students. My question concerns the church bells that are audible from several blocks away. I am not anxious to be demonized by all the nutcase fundies here in Podunk, USA but have wondered what would happen it a complaint was brought to city hall. Anyone ever faced this, or heard of it being addressed anywhere else? I imagine the fundie opposition would be quite vocal if the sound were a call to prayer from a moslem minaret blasting all over town.

Many towns nosie ordinances exclude bells and if the bells existed before the ordinance they are grandfathered in. In the last 2 months the college across the street has installed a bell tower. Now I can tell time while gardening (shoveling, chopping ice). I love it.

I have heard of cases like this going to court. I'm not sure of the results as ordinances can be rewritten to to include bells as acceptable noises during quiet hours. This is also a religious freedom issue and you will not win at silencing them during non-quiet hours.

The biggest question is if it bugs you enough to warrent going though the legal battle.

[Dick Springer]

This can be a serious problem and is no joke. We had a monastery on our island with very large bells and with two monks living in it. The building had close neighbors. They claimed that they had some kind of religious obligation to ring their bells at seven in the morning, and outraged neighbors could never get the City of Portland, of which we are part, to enforce its anti-noise ordinance against the monks. (A majority of Portlanders, while often not particularly religious, are of Catholic background.)

Relief eventually came when the monks moved to Florida along with their bells. They had the same conflict with their neighbors there.

Want to be above the law? Found a religion.

[Ljoilae]

So here is my situation: I live about 200 yards from a Methodist church in a small town in a rural part on Northern New York(1200 people). I've lived here about two years now, and I love it. During this last Christmas season, the church decided that they would begin using their "church bells"(actually loudspeakers) on a regular basis. "Regular basis" means that between 8 am and 9pm every day of the week, the "bells" not only mark the hour, but also ring every 15 minutes. At the hour and every hour at least two, and sometimes as many as four different religious hymns are played through the speakers for all to hear. Without knowing how many decibels the bells are at my house in the living room, I'll just say that in the winter time with the house totally closed up, the dryer going and background music on, I still here them loud enough to be distracted. When the Church first started using the bells on a regular basis, I figured it was to celebrate the Holiday season; or course, at least 2 or 3 christmas carols would be played every hour on the hour until just after new years. They switched over to hymns soon after, and haven't quit since. Having grown up in your quintesential New England small town and being raised Roman Catholic, I've heard a lot of church bells. I certainly have no problems with living close to a place of worship, and just about everyone I've met who is involved with the church has been great. I almost feel bad for becoming annoyed with the intensive "belling" I've been getting lately, but I'm afraid that the church might have gone a little overboard with it (I suspect thay must have been pretty excited when they got their new "sound system" installed). I haven't taken any action on the issue- yet. I'm trying to gain insight from friends family and anyone else(hence this posting) who might have some ideas on how I should approach this issue. Does this amount of bell ringing seem excessive? how often are the bells rung in your town on any given day? Two bell ringing sessions were experienced during the writing of this message...
Matt


There is a benedictine monastery in my town and I like to visit their garden, and they never play their bells quite that much. Hearing the bells there is it actually kinda nice, it transports you back in time and makes the whole place mystical or something... If I lived right next door though and they played their bells all the freakin' time I'd probably go complain.

That church's "bell ringing" is excessive.. and it's not "traditional" and Christians aren't obligated to do it, and they are supposed to be considerate and kind. If they refuse to make some kind of change they're certainly being un-Christian.

[Malintent]

That church's "bell ringing" is excessive.. and it's not "traditional" and Christians aren't obligated to do it, and they are supposed to be considerate and kind. If they refuse to make some kind of change they're certainly being un-Christian.

Exactly why I say a simple, polite conversation with the priest should have a positive effect.

[Trout]

Exactly why I say a simple, polite conversation with the priest should have a positive effect.


Just don't let him back you into a corner and stay away from the wine!

You'll end up a statistic

[Malintent]

Exactly why I say a simple, polite conversation with the priest should have a positive effect.


Just don't let him back you into a corner and stay away from the wine!

You'll end up a statistic

I wouldn't 'turn the other cheek' either. He might try and put something between them.

[GenesisNemesis]

Haven't you heard? Churches are exempt from noise regulation laws.

[Nice Squirrel]

They are? Wouldn't excessive noise fall under the same limitations as agressive panhandling?

[Lógos Sokratikós]

CRYBABIES!!!

In Costa Rica, churches prefer to use VERY loud firecrackers, and especially if it's the parish's patron festivities, they could fire them all night at even intervals, even on workdays. You really want to fire one up a priest's ass, I'm not kidding.

And yes, there are noise ordinances in Costa Rica.
You can imagine my joy... In the middle of one of those nights, I make Christopher Hitchens seem like a frail little pious ol' lady. "Hijuep*&^ta iglesia católica!!!"

[Dick Springer]

Haven't you heard? Churches are exempt from noise regulation laws.

In many places not true.

[whichphilosophy]

Certainly in Muslim countries there are no ordinances against the Mosques making a noise. (from 4.00 am periodically until sunset.

[mga]

Most noise ordinances are also only effective during specific hours. After 9pm and before 7am is a common time frame. This allows construction companies to begin work early when necessary, but also allows teh majority of the population to sleep during the normal sleeping times.

As one who spent a long time working graveyard shifts, it can be quite annoying. Most churches, synagogues, and mosques don't have services early or late enough to violate noise ordinances. And few church bells are loud enough to violate the really broad noise ordinances that are always in place.

As irritating as they can be, I have yet to hear a church bell ringing that sets my teeth on edge and makes me wish for a large caliber weapon in a way that approaches what I feel when some idiot drives through my neighborhood with the base on his car stereo turned up so loud it rattles the windows of my home. :angry:
Cheers,
Lane

true, but we all make exceptions on what "noise" bothers us and what noise doesn't. barking dogs make me want to shoot them, but a car stereo doesn't phase me.

that harley davidson with straight pipes should be removed from the highways, but others love to hear that roar of the engine. a cop will be more apt to write you a ticket for loud exhaust on a car than if you were on that harley. to me, both should be written up. there is nothing like hearing that harley (or any bike) roaring down a road 2 miles away in the middle of the night. i guess the driver figures he's awake, so everyone else should be too.

likewise, many people don't have a problem with church bells, while others may. but either way, you'll find that all towns have their 'exceptions" built into the noise ordinances.

whether it's discriminatory or not is another matter.

[Magnus Armstrong]

Having a loud bike can be safer for traffic.

[mga]

Having a loud bike can be safer for traffic.


yea, right....i've heard that excuse many times.:rolleyes:

using that logic, nothing should have a muffler on it. that way, we'd all be safe in traffic.

[Magnus Armstrong]

Having a loud bike can be safer for traffic.


yea, right....i've heard that excuse many times.:rolleyes:

using that logic, nothing should have a muffler on it. that way, we'd all be safe in traffic.

Actually that doesn't logically follow, since the reasoning is that bikes are smaller than cars and tend to be overlooked by the drivers.

[mga]

yea, right....i've heard that excuse many times.:rolleyes:

using that logic, nothing should have a muffler on it. that way, we'd all be safe in traffic.

Actually that doesn't logically follow, since the reasoning is that bikes are smaller than cars and tend to be overlooked by the drivers.

most bike accidents are caused by the motorcycle driver.

loud exhausts only make one feel.....macho. it serves no other purpose, other than poluting the air.

[mopedmatt]

Well, I do own an enduro bike. I could build a dirt jump in my yard and run laps on it during Sunday morning service with my muffler punched out I guess... Kidding. As far as the noise=safety deal, that always seemed a little foolish to me too, even as a motorcycle rider. If that's the real reason for all the noise some Harleys (and others) make, they should all be wearing neon yellow banana suits too so they're more obvious on the road instead of all that black and brown leather, right? Some do it, I know, but lets be honest here- people have loud motorcycles for their ego more than their safety(it also feels cool on your ass). So what. My loud farts annoy people around me too, but I'm still proud of them.
Cheers
Matt

By the way, thanks for the feedback on the bell situation. I'd love to go to Costa Rica for some rowdy holiday firecracker action sometime...

[Malintent]

The louder the bike in traffic near me, the closer I get to it. what are they going to do, run me off the road? you want attention... talk to the paramedic.