Why don't we cut the crap...

[Mr Carcer]

...and instead of using terms like "political parties" and "voters" say "political brands" and "consumers"?

[psikeyhackr]

The voter/consumers can't handle that degree of cynicism.

Are you trying to create a reality based system?

I'll have to send the NSA after you. :devil1:

psik

[nightwyrm]

Most people can't handle the truth.

[Hawkeye]

Unfortunately you can't return politicians where you got them if they don't live up to your expectations. No re-vote.

[toth8]

What are voters "consuming"?

Voting is for chumps anyhow, because you're simply supporting a morally corrupt political system.

[ravenscape]

Just a reminder that PE&ST is not an appropriate forum for one-liners. Threads that aren't substantive are likely to be moved ~Elsewhere~.

Raven
PE&ST Moderator

[Mr Carcer]

The point I'm making is that political parties in modern democracies behave like corporations in that they identify a desire from their target audience and promises (and sometimes even tries) to fulfill that desire. A political party in earlier democracies would have had an idea of what was right for the country and they would try to persuade voters that this idea was the right one amongst all the other ones available. Parties in modern democracies take their ideas from the voters and gives it back to them in sound bites. For example, it doesn't matter if not cutting taxes is a good idea. If people desire tax cuts than thats what all the parties will try to sell to them.

[Ghostdog]

How about we cut the shit and ditch this half-ass fake racist political bullshit? Anarchy works better.

[Vandeervecken]

What are voters "consuming"?

Voting is for chumps anyhow, because you're simply supporting a morally corrupt political system.

So then are you content to let the chumps decide who is going to rule you? Frankly I find your position to be an enormous cop-out and little more than an excuse for being too lazy to meaningfully participate.

What nation do you believe has a better political system than ours (Various forms of democracy)?

Is perfection a prerequisite for your participation?

[Dryhad]

...and instead of using terms like "political parties" and "voters" say "political brands" and "consumers"?
Why don't we cut the crap to reveal more crap? Perhaps because it's pointless?

[Bonniedundee]

So then are you content to let the chumps decide who is going to rule you?There is no real deciding, the candidates are mostly the same, they are supposed to be.

Frankly I find your position to be an enormous cop-out and little more than an excuse for being too lazy to meaningfully participate.
Our systems are meant to make people apathetic and not participate.

When we vote in an election, we are declaring, by our actions, our support for the process of some people ruling others by coercive means.
Butler Shaffer


What nation do you believe has a better political system than ours (Various forms of democracy)?
Our system is not democratic, it just gives the rubber stamp to the ruling classes.

And I believe Toth8 is an anarchist.

[toth8]

What are voters "consuming"?

Voting is for chumps anyhow, because you're simply supporting a morally corrupt political system.

So then are you content to let the chumps decide who is going to rule you? Frankly I find your position to be an enormous cop-out and little more than an excuse for being too lazy to meaningfully participate.

I don't want any unchosen rulers, or rulers, period.

What nation do you believe has a better political system than ours (Various forms of democracy)?

None. They're all corrupt.

Is perfection a prerequisite for your participation?

No, just the non-initiation of force.

[Vandeervecken]

So then are you content to let the chumps decide who is going to rule you?There is no real deciding, the candidates are mostly the same, they are supposed to be.


Our systems are meant to make people apathetic and not participate.

When we vote in an election, we are declaring, by our actions, our support for the process of some people ruling others by coercive means.
Butler Shaffer

Oh boy, so to prove you think for yourself your only response to a serious question is to quote from a rather verbose professor from a rather obscure US law school. I note he is another person who makes a living in the system, attacking the system. Give the the purity of an Abbie Hoffman over such as this any day.


What nation do you believe has a better political system than ours (Various forms of democracy)?
Our system is not democratic, it just gives the rubber stamp to the ruling classes.

And I believe Toth8 is an anarchist.

Ah, so a dreamer who doesn't plan on living in the real world. Enough said.

[Vandeervecken]

So then are you content to let the chumps decide who is going to rule you? Frankly I find your position to be an enormous cop-out and little more than an excuse for being too lazy to meaningfully participate.

I don't want any unchosen rulers, or rulers, period.


None. They're all corrupt.

Is perfection a prerequisite for your participation?

No, just the non-initiation of force.



So you refuse to choose, then complain of not getting a choice? Pardon me while I laugh at that.

As to the non-initiation of force, that pretty much excludes living with any members of the human race at all. We are predatory pack primates, and behave in our groups little different than others of that type. Look at a baboon pack and you will not find many differences from human groupings. Have you tried actually living in the real world? trying to better what is rather than simply copping out with a dream system that quite frankly is one of those things like communism that looks really pretty on paper but is a proper bollix in real life?

[Bonniedundee]

Oh boy, so to prove you think for yourself your only response to a serious question is to quote from a rather verbose professor from a rather obscure US law school. I note he is another person who makes a living in the system, attacking the system. Give the the purity of an Abbie Hoffman over such as this any day.I studied history at uni, it is in my nature to quote sources and the like.


Ah, so a dreamer who doesn't plan on living in the real world. Enough said.We all make our worlds, better to be a dreamer who spreads freedom and morality than a man who compromises with slavery and injustice.
To think of qualitative change in our "totally administered soceity" is something rare enough and he shouldn't be attacked for it.

[psikeyhackr]

What are voters "consuming"?

Voting is for chumps anyhow, because you're simply supporting a morally corrupt political system.

I confess I do have a slight tendency to agree with that but too much stupidity is really bad for everybody. I voted against Bush twice, unfortunately it didn't accomplish much.

Sometimes I feel I have more respect for the people that voted for Bush than the ones that voted for Nader in 2000. Of course the ones that didn't vote are way ahead of the ones that voted for Nader. :D

psik

[Vandeervecken]

Oh boy, so to prove you think for yourself your only response to a serious question is to quote from a rather verbose professor from a rather obscure US law school. I note he is another person who makes a living in the system, attacking the system. Give the the purity of an Abbie Hoffman over such as this any day.I studied history at uni, it is in my nature to quote sources and the like.


Ah, so a dreamer who doesn't plan on living in the real world. Enough said.We all make our worlds, better to be a dreamer who spreads freedom and morality than a man who compromises with slavery and injustice.
To think of qualitative change in our "totally administered soceity" is something rare enough and he shouldn't be attacked for it.


I have no problem with quoting sources, but I tend to look for people of a bit more stature in general than the one you chose.

Refusing to participate in society than complaning about that very society is laughable, useless, and a cop-out. In fact I have no problem at all with "thinking" of a qualitative change in our society, it is laudable, but only when backed by action. sitting uselessly on the sidelines and not only refusing to play, but denigrating those who do is beyond useless. Dreaming is easy, action takes effort.

[Bonniedundee]

Refusing to participate in society than complaning about that very society is laughable, useless, and a cop-out. In fact I have no problem at all with "thinking" of a qualitative change in our society, it is laudable, but only when backed by action. sitting uselessly on the sidelines and not only refusing to play, but denigrating those who do is beyond useless. Dreaming is easy, action takes effort.

But I'm an anarchist, how could I actually bring about change?

I want my own liberty and take the encroachments of the state on that as invasions and don't think I should have to lobby it to get it to withdraw and it wouldn't if I tried. Of course no other way works either, I just try and minimise contact with it.

Our institutions are not made to bring about change, they are made to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. To me the state is not democratic at all, it is run by the rich and its main function is to aid them and exploit the masses, to me there is no qualitative change, but only one of degrees, between the modern state and the fuedal state or even the Nazi state.

And society, to again quote or rather paraphrase this time Tom Paine, is not the state, they are two distinct entities. I have little problem with society I have a big problem with the state and its outgrowths like corporations etc etc