Chili on the thief in the night and other topics split from If you open this seal...

[Chili]

[The thing to keep in mind, this is still the "early" Paul much of whose theology comes in crude and unfinished. In 1 Thess re relies much on the the commonality of his experience with that of the saints. It's the pneuma itself that teaches. The saints themselves still have direct access to God without Paul's agency - you noticed that ? It's God through the Holy Spirit that commands Paul's flock. You yourselves have been taught by God to love another (4:9). The same phrasing as in the "thief in the night" (5:9).

Jiri

"Direct access to God" denies the Holy Spirit which also descended on them to make them saints. They are one with the father and can rightfully say "who is my mother" to say that the universal woman is their inspiration that makes them brothers and sisters in the flesh because they have the same father in their brotherhood . . . which makes heaven religion specific and not a pie in the sky.

[Chili]

[Is it some sort of experience of a hugely destructive nature that Paul and his friends were through, and survived - climbed out of, so to speak - that informs this passage ? What do you think ? Could it be that they are the "conquerors" who Rev 2:11 assures us shall not be hurt by the second death ?


Jiri

They climbed out of Galilee (purgatory we call it) to become a Christ. Galilee is where the Jesus stage is left behind. It is in rebirth that we enter Galilee (the race) and by crucifixion do we end it (finish the race).

Purgatory is the promised land that we must enter by walking on the water instead of parting it to get there. This is what the saints have in common who each will have their own story to tell.

[Chili]

There is no thirst (desire) in heaven and therefore no pain. Pain is an illusion and so is life or eternal life could not be real. The destructive nature episode is meant to annihilate the temporal ego consciousness wherefore the mystery of faith is beyond theology and salvation not part of it until seen in retrospect. So therefore, it is not possible for Christians to go to heaven which itself ends at the second death.

[Chili]

. . . and the good thing about this is that the ego consciousness is temporal and can be shed like an old coat of colors. The difficulty here is that we need home-town religion to pull it off so we can walk away from it and that is just opposite to what Christianity has in mind. Go figure.

[Chili]

[
I am testing whether the historical and contemporary descriptions of epileptics, TL-psychosis sufferers (eg. certain kind of bi-polars) and NDE-subjects verbalizing the internal effects of complex TL partial seizures (and auras) matches the allegorical cipher of the "thief".

Except that a thief in the night comes only once or the firstborn would not be the firstborn and a virgin birth not from a virgin. Simply put, there is only one day of the Lord unless we were 'from our mother's womb untimely ripped' and been given a scorpoin instead instead of a fish.

[Chili]

Possibly three directions to explore that interacted here.

Personal visions possibly due to some illness, but remember everything is always interpreted by the brain, so it is not direct.

Gnostic, mystery religion ideas of the secret revealed at the appointed time

Astrological - end of age ideas - end of world beliefs are ubiquitous and may be to do with our fear of death.

This xian stuff has some impressive magick!

I like your use of the word gnostic as opposed to mystic. Noetic vision is required for gnostic ideas and lyric vision is required for mystic ideas. The difference here is made clear in Matthew and Luke where in Matthew there was no manger and Joseph hussled out of Bethlehem into [forlorn] Egypt while Luke has a manger and an eight day stay prior to circumcision [by nature] and off to Galilee he went to get his act together before going to Jerusalem on high.

[Chili]

[ Thessalonian brethren he does not expect it to come as a thief (5.4).

Ben.


The thief in the night had already been and so now they are on their way to the end. If they ever get there is different matter but that is what Paul's admonishment was about. "Many are called and few are chosen" comes to mind here.

[Chili]

In case you missed it, the holy spirit is not an external source and there was no dove to descend. They are just allegories that describe the first stage of enlightenment wherein a direct link is made between the conscious and subconscuious mind (TOK and TOL or ego and soul) and that is why the HS that heretofore was the only mediator between these two is now redundant. After this the woman becomes the Mediatrix between heaven and earth (TOL and TOK) because she was taken from man to never leave Eden (man is basically good) and contains the total worth that this so called HS can bring about . . . which once again makes heaven religion specific and earth the place for us color our own heaven each generation anew as the woman moves through the ages without an identity of her own (eternal life belongs to the mythology which is Jerusalem for them and Rome for us = Jerusalem on high and Rome sweet home).