Teenager faces prosecution for calling Scientology 'cult'

[Reason]

A teenager is facing prosecution for using the word "cult" to describe the Church of Scientology.

The unnamed 15-year-old was served the summons by City of London police when he took part in a peaceful demonstration opposite the London headquarters of the controversial religion.

Officers confiscated a placard with the word "cult" on it from the youth, who is under 18, and a case file has been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service.

A date has not yet been set for him to appear in court.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/20/1

[Sapho]

Interesting artical, it looks llike the london police will end up with egg all over their faces. They really should know better than to accept money from dudious organisations.

[mrunicycler]

I've always called it a cult...

Dictionary.com
cult Audio Help /kʌlt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhlt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective 9. of or pertaining to a cult.
10. of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.


I thought about deleting the definitions that didn't really apply...but they all pretty much seem to, in different ways...

Also, from wikipedia:
Former members, journalists, courts and the governing bodies of several countries have described the Church of Scientology as a cult and an unscrupulous commercial enterprise...

Yep.

Lock the kid up and throw away the key, because we can't have him spreading this kind of viscious truth:cool:

[john_v_h]

Well every religion is a cult to begin with. It's usually necessary to isolate your adherents to keep them bound to unpopular ideas and practices. Scientology has been around long enough to start winning some protection from the culture: no surprise. In another 50 years it will be just another newer religion, and no one will remember the words (http://www.islets.net/faq.html#Anchor-Was-47857) of Harlan Ellison.

[Apostate1970]

Interesting artical, it looks llike the london police will end up with egg all over their faces. They really should know better than to accept money from dudious organisations.

What on earth makes you think that the police will end up with egg on their faces? Even if they do the fact is that they were in the right! This really is British Law!

I will quote the article:

"Following advice from the Crown Prosecution Service some demonstrators were warned verbally and in writing that their signs breached section five of the Public Order Act.

"One demonstrator continued to display a placard despite police warnings and was reported for an offence under section five. A file on the case will go to the CPS."

A CPS spokesman said no specific advice was given to police regarding the boy's placard.

"In April, prior to this demonstration, as part of our normal working relationship we gave the City of London police general advice on the law around demonstrations and religiously aggravated crime in particular.

"We did not advise on this specific case prior to the summons being issued – which the police can do without reference to us – but if we receive a file we will review it in the normal way according to the code for crown prosecutors

The real facts here are that people are embarrassed by the law and don't want to report it. What I suspect is that CPS did give advice to the police and that the police were acting in good faith on it... then CPS later backpedals and withdraws its support when pressed, leaving the police to spin in the wind of public opinion.

Here is the wiki on the Public Order Act of 1986

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Order_Act_1986

Here is the actual Part 5 (section five) which talks about "raves" and the ability of the police to remove trespassers on land.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1994/ukpga_19940033_en_8

Here is the relevant amendment to the Act. It prohibits this kid's action. This act introduced Part 3A to the 1986 act and so is actually meant to be inserted just prior to page 7 (Part 4) of the previous link... so it's supposedly the interaction of Part 5 ("ie. section 5") and this new act (Part 3A) which is at stake. But this is all bait and switch because it's really just Part 3A that is at stake. This is the Part that no one even wants to name because it's just too embarrassing.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/ukpga_20060001_en_1

Here is the wiki on the 2006 act for those unwilling to pore over Part 5 and Part 3A.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_Religious_Hatred_Act_2006

What is prohibited by the 2006 law isn't any objective act but acts that are engaged in "with the intent to incite religious hatred". I find it truly ironic then that it was not the action of this kid so much as it was of the police that incite hatred. Personally I am neutral about people walking around with signs that say "cult". But when the police arrest them for it... well then I have to say that I hate that... it stinks to heaven. :mad: It's detestable and any religion that doesn't immediately act on behalf of the arrested is complicit in the detestable act and is equally to be detested. The British police have thus incited me to hatred of the British police force and the Scientologists, by their inaction, have incited me to hatred of Scientology. :mad: They may not have "intended" to do so... but they are morally culpable for it nevertheless... sheer stupidity in not understanding the consequences of your actions is not an adequate defense of those actions.

[Joan of Bark]

Well every religion is a cult to begin with. It's usually necessary to isolate your adherents to keep them bound to unpopular ideas and practices. Scientology has been around long enough to start winning some protection from the culture: no surprise. In another 50 years it will be just another newer religion, and no one will remember the words (http://www.islets.net/faq.html#Anchor-Was-47857) of Harlan Ellison.

Yeah, what was that cult in first-century Palestine called again? You know, the one about a resurrected messiah?

I've heard that claim about why Hubbard created Scientology before. The story goes that he claimed he could become as big as Muhammed overnight.

[loose cannon]

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj18/mick5656/01.jpg

[Joni-san]

Youtube of the BBC story. (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QqgojaACv5Y)

Sign: A few monies.
Police Stuff: Moar monies.
BBC Reporter saying "Epic Nose Guy": Priceless.

[fatpie42]

There's actually a video of the kid being approached by the police on this website:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21486/scientology-cult-19

[fatpie42]

Youtube of the BBC story. (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QqgojaACv5Y)

Sign: A few monies.
Police Stuff: Moar monies.
BBC Reporter saying "Epic Nose Guy": Priceless.

I notice that in the end this appears to be coming up as a test case. As such it seems that even if they do end up prosecuting the boy (as seems extremely unlikely) he'll probably get the lowest possible punishment as (let's face it) he's hardly the only person to have publically referred to Scientology as a cult.

In the end, this is a problem with the recent regulations against religious hatred. Plenty of people said that it would lead to problems and now it has. Looks like a successful case of civil disobedience in action though. The kid is quite clearly saying something along the lines of: 'I'm not going to resist the police on this, but if you are actually planning on arresting me for this something is seriously wrong here.'

[Lógos Sokratikós]

"Ok, I'm sorry, officer. It's not a mere cult. It's much, much more than a cult, it's a business, a cult and a pseudoscience scam rolled into one!"

[Clivedurdle]

This is actually about our equality laws and where behaviour against religions fits.

I formally state publically that "Scientology is a cult." Now where have I said that, in the jurisdiction of the Metropolitan Police or wherever iidb's servers are based?

[Clivedurdle]

How do we set up a Downing Street petition?

[Clivedurdle]

Just done it - I have set up a petition for "the Prime Minister to agree that Scientology is a cult."


It has to be approved!

[jaded_revenge]

How, by definition, is it NOT a cult?

[Lord_Terrible]

Lol, Anonymous.

The internet finally has taken to the streets. Run in fear!

[Joni-san]

I'd show images, but I don't remember the spoiler block code.

[kiwimac]

The question is, does it stir up religious hatred to display a sign referring to a group as a "cult" especially when the word has A: a specific meaning (a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies., among others) and B: has been used by a High Court Judge to refer to the same group.

[general_koffi]

If only Europe had an ACLU...

[Her pinkness saves]

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/FallenOneRaZe/AnonymousBecause.jpg
never forgive, never forget.


I assume british law is sane enough to throw this case out, right?

[Clivedurdle]

Actually it is not sane enough.

This is symptomatic of the Labour Government and its fetish of controlling behaviour it deems unacceptable instead of protecting and enhancing freedoms.

The Scientologists are being seen as a poor downtrodden oppressed group!

[figuer]

Perfect example of how 'civilized' Europe has become...

[fatpie42]

Just done it - I have set up a petition for "the Prime Minister to agree that Scientology is a cult."


It has to be approved!

Please provide a link so I can tell everyone I know about it. :)

[fatpie42]

Just had a quick search for petitions. I loved this one:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to allow the Church of Scientology the religious status it deserves.

Here's the good part. Asides from 'Luke Small' who set up the petition the other 7 signitures are from:
* jesus christ
* Satan
* n shearer
* L Mother Hubbard
* Adolf Hitler
* Long Cat
* it is a terrible cult. It brainwashes people and takes everything they own. Stay away.

(Yes they've put that last thing as their name.)

So there's a demand that it not be called a 'Church':
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Rename The 'Church' of Scientology under section 32 of the Companies Act.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/scientologyno/
We demand that the Prime Minister, in conjunction with the Secretary of State for Trade & Industry, use powers granted to them in section 32 of the Companies Act to insist that the 'Church' of Scientology (England & Wales) be made to rename themselves to a more suitable trading name that will not mislead or harm the public as to the nature of the companies main business.

The Oxford English Dictionary states that a 'church' is "an official Christian religious organization". Since Scientology is not a Christian nor, more importantly, recognised as a religion in The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, it should not be allowed to mislead people by referring to itself as a "church".

There's a demand that it should have its VAT exemption revoked:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Revoke the VAT-exempt status of the Church of Scientology Religious Education College Inc.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/CoSVAT/
The Church of Scientology presents itself as a non-profit organisation and as such enjoys VAT exemption. Any examination of the workings of this organisation reveal that the Church of Scientology operates for profit and therefore does not deserve this exemption. We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to revoke it

There's even a petition to ensure that their employees are being paid minimum wage!
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to to investigate Scientology organisations operating in the UK to ensure the National Minimum Wage is being paid to their employees.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScientologyNMW/
In view of the accounts of working conditions that are being told on the Internet by ex-Scientology staff members, we request the Government and HM Revenue & Customs investigate Scientology organisations operating in the UK, to ensure the National Minimum Wage Act of 1998 is being followed by Scientology employers.

We also request that HMRC ensures that UK Scientology employers pay arrears to any employee since 1998, who was not paid the National Minimum Wage according to the legislation.

We also request that the Government investigate the working hours and conditions of Scientology employees and ensure compliance with Employment Legislation and that their rights as employees and human beings are not being violated.

[Serafina]

The Crown Prosecution Service seem to have seen sense! (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23486724-details/CPS+drops+case+against+Scientology+protest+boy/article.do)

[Clivedurdle]

Just done it - I have set up a petition for "the Prime Minister to agree that Scientology is a cult."


It has to be approved!

Please provide a link so I can tell everyone I know about it. :)

It has to be approved, but go to their website and search under scientology for all these petitions - yesterday their were none!

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/

[fatpie42]

The Crown Prosecution Service seem to have seen sense! (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23486724-details/CPS+drops+case+against+Scientology+protest+boy/article.do)

I love the way the article finished with:

Liberty director Shami Chakrabarti this week described the decision to press for a prosecution as "barmy".

The Church of Scientology, founded by author L Ron Hubbard in the Fifties, teaches that humans are immortal spiritual beings known as thetans, who have passed through previous lives.

They might as well have started the second of those paragraphs with: "And speaking of barmy...."

[Clivedurdle]

that humans are immortal spiritual beings known as thetans, who have passed through previous lives.

Now where have I heard similar stuff, and why are they not treated equally?

http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, (http://www.thefathershouse.org/creed/filioque.html) who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

[Joni-san]

Slashdot- UK Prosecutors Say 'Cult' Acceptable (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/05/23/1214215)

I can has "Fuck Yeah!"?

[Joni-san]

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9242/posterjmsgt5uy8.png

Relevant?

[Joni-san]

BBC- No charges over Scientology demo (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7416425.stm)

[Joni-san]

Guardian- Schoolboy avoids prosecution for branding Scientology a 'cult' (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/23/religion)