What do Religious People do that is so different from atheists?

[Half-Life]

I was wondering about this one today. What makes a Christian say that we need Jesus in our lives? What does he do for us? We often hear of the word "sin" a lot and that we need Jesus in us to be free from sin.

But, how can this be possible? If someone accepts Jesus as their own personal Lord and savior, does this mean they are sinless for the rest of their lives? If not, what good does Jesus do?

Is drinking a sin? Well, since tons of people drink and the majority of the world believes in God, we will assume that a lot of drinkers are believers. Where's Jesus guiding them away?

Is having premarital sex a sin? Well, once again we have a majority of people who are believers that engage in premarital sex just like atheists do. Where's Jesus?

Is cursing a sin? Well, once again we have a majority of people who are believers that curse a lot just like atheists. Where's Jesus?

Is murder a sin? Well, considering most of the inmates are Christians, where's Jesus?

In a nutshell, how does accepting Jesus do anything to your life and make you act any differently from a non-believer?

[Tinker Grey]

Re: nutshell. It doesn't. This observation is one of the factors leading to my deconversion.

[seanc]

In quite a few cases, it gives them a poor excuse to be intolerant to those who haven't "accepted Jesus."

[TheRealityOfMan]

This baffled me when I was a Christian. There is a kind of double-think on this. One the one hand Christians say they still make all kinds of mistakes and that having Jesus means that they have forgiveness for their sin tendencies that they have as much as non-believers. On the other hand Christians seem to say that being born again means that they will have a more moral life based on their regenerated pure life.

Born-again Christians will then point to superficial virtues in their life. Maybe they have given up drinking/smoking/swearing/casual sex or at least they make an effort to. They will say that these superficial moral features are indicative of a more fundamental cleansing of their original sin. The problem is that many Christians seem to confuse the two. The church I was in for a while had certain policies such as if you commit adultery then that means that you have been proven unregenerate and so er... damned. It seems pretty arbitrary how you decide which behaviours are because of the Lord's regenerative power and which are just conscious attempts to live a different life based on religious principles.

[funinspace]

This baffled me when I was a Christian. There is a kind of double-think on this. One the one hand Christians say they still make all kinds of mistakes and that having Jesus means that they have forgiveness for their sin tendencies that they have as much as non-believers. On the other hand Christians seem to say that being born again means that they will have a more moral life based on their regenerated pure life.

Born-again Christians will then point to superficial virtues in their life. Maybe they have given up drinking/smoking/swearing/casual sex or at least they make an effort to. They will say that these superficial moral features are indicative of a more fundamental cleansing of their original sin. The problem is that many Christians seem to confuse the two. The church I was in for a while had certain policies such as if you commit adultery then that means that you have been proven unregenerate and so er... damned. It seems pretty arbitrary how you decide which behaviours are because of the Lord's regenerative power and which are just conscious attempts to live a different life based on religious principles.
You are quite correct that their invocation of standards is quite arbitrary. The NT is pretty clear on gluttony and that your body is a temple to be maintained. Yet, a third of America is obese. They commit said sins daily, just as they accuse the gay or heavy drinker. It's even worse towards the homosexual, in that they say that one cannot be a True Christian, with such behavior. The alcoholic often gets a partial break, since some drinking is not forbidden. Gossiping, the power hungry, and the greedy also get special dispensations from True Christian debasing.

[Draconis]

I always thought that Jesus died on the cross so that sins may be forgiven (by God, I assume, when he's not moonlighting as the holy ghost or Jesus himself) so in theory when you murder someone, you can say sorry to God and because Jesus was crucified, God will forgive you and you'll avoid hell.

I've often wondered how this helps the murdered person, or prevents sin, but nobody ever gives a good answer to that.

[crispy]

I was wondering about this one today. What makes a Christian say that we need Jesus in our lives? What does he do for us? We often hear of the word "sin" a lot and that we need Jesus in us to be free from sin.

But, how can this be possible? If someone accepts Jesus as their own personal Lord and savior, does this mean they are sinless for the rest of their lives? If not, what good does Jesus do?

Is drinking a sin? Well, since tons of people drink and the majority of the world believes in God, we will assume that a lot of drinkers are believers. Where's Jesus guiding them away?

Is having premarital sex a sin? Well, once again we have a majority of people who are believers that engage in premarital sex just like atheists do. Where's Jesus?

Is cursing a sin? Well, once again we have a majority of people who are believers that curse a lot just like atheists. Where's Jesus?

Is murder a sin? Well, considering most of the inmates are Christians, where's Jesus?

In a nutshell, how does accepting Jesus do anything to your life and make you act any differently from a non-believer?

And why would a christian who sinned his heart out go to heaven, when a non-christian who doesnt "sin" (in the christian fashion) and does a lot of humanitarian work would go to hell? Isnt he doing what god really wants people to do? Yet he gets sent to hell... For an eternity :p

This one of the reasons religions are very very bad. You can justify about anything and still believe you will be going to heaven. Just a little thought, as Bush is quite a religious fanatic in my eyes, and probably believe the second coming of christ is juuuust around the corner, wouldnt his politics towards Israel and generally the middle east fit quite good with this Sorta speeding up the process... I find it very disturbing that his politics down there make perfect sense if you you look at it with Bush's jesus glasses on :(

[ziffel]

[Just a little thought, as Bush is quite a religious fanatic in my eyes, and probably believe the second coming of christ is juuuust around the corner, wouldnt his politics towards Israel and generally the middle east fit quite good with this Sorta speeding up the process... I find it very disturbing that his politics down there make perfect sense if you you look at it with Bush's jesus glasses on :(

I don't think Bush is a religious fanatic in the least. I think he's a conniving bastard who used Jesus and Christianity to help reach the far right voters, which in the U.S. are legion. I think he used Jesus and Christianity to help justify the middle east invasions - a world zone that Christians believe is strongly connected to the "end times".

Bush is a lying sack of shite, a party animal and a warmonger. I doubt religion factors into his decisions much, if at all.

[Underseer]

In quite a few cases, it gives them a poor excuse to be intolerant to those who haven't "accepted Jesus."

It's not a poor excuse. For the believer, it is a very compelling excuse.

[Soul Invictus]

I couldn't reconcile this myself. I often would ask people if saved people commit sin after they are saved, and I would be told yes. I would follow up a question along the lines of what the OP asked, and I would get a response that invokes themes of justification and grace.

[hinduwoman]

I don't think Bush is a religious fanatic in the least. I think he's a conniving bastard who used Jesus and Christianity to help reach the far right voters, which in the U.S. are legion. I think he used Jesus and Christianity to help justify the middle east invasions - a world zone that Christians believe is strongly connected to the "end times".

Bush is a lying sack of shite, a party animal and a warmonger. I doubt religion factors into his decisions much, if at all.

He can be all these things, but the problem is that does not stop him from being a believer. Religion and ambition is not incompatible.
By instigating the war he might genuinely believe that he is doing the Lord's work and so ensuring a place in heaven.

[funinspace]

I don't think Bush is a religious fanatic in the least. I think he's a conniving bastard who used Jesus and Christianity to help reach the far right voters, which in the U.S. are legion. I think he used Jesus and Christianity to help justify the middle east invasions - a world zone that Christians believe is strongly connected to the "end times".

Bush is a lying sack of shite, a party animal and a warmonger. I doubt religion factors into his decisions much, if at all.

He can be all these things, but the problem is that does not stop him from being a believer. Religion and ambition is not incompatible.
By instigating the war he might genuinely believe that he is doing the Lord's work and so ensuring a place in heaven.
While I would guess that Bush does believe in Christianity at some level, I don't think he really lives and breaths this belief. There are allot of Christians who sort of/kind of believe, but they don't really live it. "Yeah, it's that thing I do on Sunday; it's that thing that explains those weird questions of life that some people like to ponder; but actually pay attention to what some dusty old book tells me to do? F#@$ no."

Two people that have been in politics that I think actually live their belief at least to some extent are Jimmy Carter and Mike Huckabee.

If Bush really believed in the Jebus is coming stuff and all kinds of evangelical crap, I don't think he would have kept is affiliation with the United Methodist Church. That is not a True Believer sect (not that they aren't Christian). And they tend to do/say allot of things that seriously annoy Evangelicals. He has probably kept it because religion is not really important to him personally. However, it has become important to him politically.

[Underseer]

He can be all these things, but the problem is that does not stop him from being a believer. Religion and ambition is not incompatible.
By instigating the war he might genuinely believe that he is doing the Lord's work and so ensuring a place in heaven.
While I would guess that Bush does believe in Christianity at some level, I don't think he really lives and breaths this belief. There are allot of Christians who sort of/kind of believe, but they don't really live it. "Yeah, it's that thing I do on Sunday; it's that thing that explains those weird questions of life that some people like to ponder; but actually pay attention to what some dusty old book tells me to do? F#@$ no."

Two people that have been in politics that I think actually live their belief at least to some extent are Jimmy Carter and Mike Huckabee.

If Bush really believed in the Jebus is coming stuff and all kinds of evangelical crap, I don't think he would have kept is affiliation with the United Methodist Church. That is not a True Believer sect (not that they aren't Christian). And they tend to do/say allot of things that seriously annoy Evangelicals. He has probably kept it because religion is not really important to him personally. However, it has become important to him politically.

So Methodists aren't "True Believers" but are still Christians?

Please do explain the difference. I have a feeling this is going to be entertaining.

While you are at it, please list the Christian sects which can and can not be considered potential True Believers(tm).

[Half-Life]

While I would guess that Bush does believe in Christianity at some level, I don't think he really lives and breaths this belief. There are allot of Christians who sort of/kind of believe, but they don't really live it. "Yeah, it's that thing I do on Sunday; it's that thing that explains those weird questions of life that some people like to ponder; but actually pay attention to what some dusty old book tells me to do? F#@$ no."

Two people that have been in politics that I think actually live their belief at least to some extent are Jimmy Carter and Mike Huckabee.

If Bush really believed in the Jebus is coming stuff and all kinds of evangelical crap, I don't think he would have kept is affiliation with the United Methodist Church. That is not a True Believer sect (not that they aren't Christian). And they tend to do/say allot of things that seriously annoy Evangelicals. He has probably kept it because religion is not really important to him personally. However, it has become important to him politically.

So Methodists aren't "True Believers" but are still Christians?

Please do explain the difference. I have a feeling this is going to be entertaining.

While you are at it, please list the Christian sects which can and can not be considered potential True Believers(tm).

Well, in the Bible it says that believers will be able to drive out demons in Jesus' name and drink deadly poison without it harming one hair on their head.

Since I haven't seen any Christian driving out demons or chugging drano and laughing lately, we can conclude no Christian is a true believer anyway. They just think they are.

[funinspace]

While I would guess that Bush does believe in Christianity at some level, I don't think he really lives and breaths this belief. There are allot of Christians who sort of/kind of believe, but they don't really live it. "Yeah, it's that thing I do on Sunday; it's that thing that explains those weird questions of life that some people like to ponder; but actually pay attention to what some dusty old book tells me to do? F#@$ no."

Two people that have been in politics that I think actually live their belief at least to some extent are Jimmy Carter and Mike Huckabee.

If Bush really believed in the Jebus is coming stuff and all kinds of evangelical crap, I don't think he would have kept is affiliation with the United Methodist Church. That is not a True Believer sect (not that they aren't Christian). And they tend to do/say allot of things that seriously annoy Evangelicals. He has probably kept it because religion is not really important to him personally. However, it has become important to him politically.

So Methodists aren't "True Believers" but are still Christians?

Please do explain the difference. I have a feeling this is going to be entertaining.

While you are at it, please list the Christian sects which can and can not be considered potential True Believers(tm).
The euphanism "True Believer" is especially used on IIBB to describe those that believe the Bible is God-breathed and is true on all accounts, it is also commonly used as a term to describe those on the religious right in the US. It is also used by some Christians of the conservative/evangelical/fundamentalist stripes to differentiate themselves from those "other" Christians who they often consider as some how being less Christian than themselves; or even to have entered into apostacy. It is hardly a label I invented. Go ask James Dobson, Pat Robertson, John Hagee, or Bible John here on IIBB, whether they think United Methodists are generally "True Believers"? You will find very, very few UM's who buy into the God-Breathed notion as part of their theology.

Got entertainment? If not go complain to the Label Police...

[Half-Life]

Have you guys ever gone to a church for a mass since your deconversion?

If so, did you guys find it hard to keep a straight face throughout the mass? I was dragged to one by religious family members a few weeks ago and it was very amusing. I was sitting there smirking and chuckling a bit to myself at every part of the mass. I couldn't take it seriously. It seemed like a big huge joke.

Anyone else get this same feeling?

[Lógos Sokratikós]

Anyone else get this same feeling?

No, I particularly find mass boring. Nothing ever is new, except of course the sermon part if it's delivered by a theologically knowledgeable priest, and then I get something to think about so I don't feel I'm dying from the boredom.

[hinduwoman]

Same here when attending a religious function at a temple or home. After a few moments I get bored. At least in the older temples there are always the sculptures to look at.
Become very attentive when the consecrated food is handed out though.

[Zenaphobe]

I like the king of Christian cop outs

Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven. :rolleyes:

In my Christian past I often lamented the fact that I never saw myself or others living in some super state of holiness.

[steamer]

I like the king of Christian cop outs

Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven. :rolleyes:

In my Christian past I often lamented the fact that I never saw myself or others living in some super state of holiness.

It always seemd to me that those who claimed that the holy ghost was living within them were pretty much like everyone else. Apparently having the holy ghost dwelling within one, doesn't leave any marks.

[TruthPrevails]

In a nutshell, how does accepting Jesus do anything to your life and make you act any differently from a non-believer?IMO, the brain of those who accept Jesus has a more emptier 'shell' and filled with more 'nuts' than a professed atheist or non-theist.

[Berthold]

Become very attentive when the consecrated food is handed out though.
Oh, that's a Hindu ritual, too? Well, I suppose they don't eat a God, but the parallels are amazing!

Come to think of it, the Greeks and Romans ate their sacrificial meat, too. That was even a rather substantial meal. In letters of Paul there are discussions whether it is sinful for Christians or not.