Animals fare better in zoos as experts learn more

[Potoooooooo]

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/n30448011-zoos/
Scientists are learning more about how zoo animals feel and how a toy or a little training can sometimes help cut the endless pacing and other repetitive behaviors that are often assumed to be signs of distress.

[Lógos Sokratikós]

A more humane prison.

It's almost like reading: "Inquisitors are making punishments less bloody, as they learn to slash, smash and quarter more efficiently" said expert to Torquemada Times yesterday.

Keeping animals in zoos is unjustifiable.

[premjan]

Yeah, I favor having a lot of animal reserves instead of zoos.

[figuer]

Keeping animals in zoos is unjustifiable.Sometimes it is the only alternative to extinction.

[Trout]

Yeah, I favor having a lot of animal reserves instead of zoos.

Ha! People can't even get around the idea of keeping the ANWR primarily as a reserve and that's not even due to direct things like population pressures or farming needs not to mention it's in freakin Alaska.

If we wanted to develop a truly sustainable system of reserves, which would be wonderful, then we're talking about vast tracts of land as well as viable connections between them so since that's a pipe dream we can only go at things in fits and starts.

But people can keep "favoring" reserves officially.

[premjan]

Well, it is a bit of a pipe dream, but I continue to favor it. Of course that doesn't mean more humanely constructed zoos are bad either.

[apatura_iris]

Some animals don't seem to mind captivity too much, like fish, lizards, and snakes. I think some petting zoo animals look relaxed and very social. But IME, any kind of big cat, primate, bird, bear, or fox-- to name just a few-- tend to look really traumatized and glassy-eyed in cages.

It's better than being in a meat factory, I guess... :(

[militant agnostic]

In my experience, determining what animals get stressed and board in zoos is not as easy as asking whhat kingdom they belong to. Some big cats are relitivly stationary and seem to be happier in captivity than their wild counter parts. Many large lizards (monitors, tegus) will actually languish even worse than most mamals if they are not given enough behavioral stimulation and attention.

Keeping animals in captivity is something that I have seen done with spectacular results steming from surprisingly simple solutions and absolute failures despite huge amounts of time and money being thrown at it.

My local zoo (woodland Park) always has bright, active looking animals in its exhibits. Others may have less luck, but personally I havn't really ever been to a bad zoo.

[robo_mojo]

Keeping animals in zoos is unjustifiable.Sometimes it is the only alternative to extinction.
I'm not sure if you're trying to be clever, but that statement could be read at least two different ways. :Cheeky:

[WCH]

A more humane prison.

It's almost like reading: "Inquisitors are making punishments less bloody, as they learn to slash, smash and quarter more efficiently" said expert to Torquemada Times yesterday.

Keeping animals in zoos is unjustifiable.More like "instead of slashing, smashing and quartering, the Inquisition is beginning to employ more effective devices such as the Comfy Chair and the Soft Pillow."

Captivity is still undesirable, but that's not to say that you can't make the prison fun/comfortable. Like if prisons for humans were kept clean, came equipped with video-game systems, couches and hookahs, had a pleasing decor and there were no iron bars or other obvious symbols of oppression in sight. You still wouldn't be able to leave (the doors and walls, though pretty, would be reinforced and kept locked), but at least your stay wouldn't suck so bad.

[jayh]

......Captivity is still undesirable, but that's not to say that you can't make the prison fun/comfortable. Like if prisons for humans were kept clean, came equipped with video-game systems, couches and hookahs, had a pleasing decor and there were no iron bars or other obvious symbols of oppression in sight. ....

We VOLUNTARILY enter such prisons and pay big money, but we call them cruise liners and resorts. There is no reason why most animal species can't thrive in an appropriate setting, and probably live healthier and longer lives.

[SteveP]

The female cheetah only comes on heat after being chased by the male for several kms. I think that's the main reason breeding cheetahs in captivity is so difficult.

[Sapho]

The female cheetah only comes on heat after being chased by the male for several kms. I think that's the main reason breeding cheetahs in captivity is so difficult.

Melbourne zoo has recently had goodc results breeding chteetahs by allowing several males to be in an enclosure next to a female, she came on heat very quickly as the boys competed for her attention. She latter gaver birth to two cubs.

[Yosei]

Captivity is still undesirable, but that's not to say that you can't make the prison fun/comfortable. Like if prisons for humans were kept clean, came equipped with video-game systems, couches and hookahs, had a pleasing decor and there were no iron bars or other obvious symbols of oppression in sight. You still wouldn't be able to leave (the doors and walls, though pretty, would be reinforced and kept locked), but at least your stay wouldn't suck so bad.

what's the point of prison then? :Cheeky:

Anyhow, if an animal is not endangered, much better to have it in the wild.

[SteveP]

The female cheetah only comes on heat after being chased by the male for several kms. I think that's the main reason breeding cheetahs in captivity is so difficult.

Melbourne zoo has recently had goodc results breeding chteetahs by allowing several males to be in an enclosure next to a female, she came on heat very quickly as the boys competed for her attention. She latter gaver birth to two cubs.

That's interesting. I wonder if those cheetahs came from a long line of zoo-bred cheetahs, and they are adapting to captivity. Female cheetahs that come on heat more easily in captivity are obviously more likely to have cubs, and those cubs might inherit that tendency.

That also raises the question of why the "being chased for ages" strategy arose in the wild. I guess it selects for cheetahs that have good speed and endurance, an obvious advantage for a predator that chases down its prey.

[WCH]

what's the point of prison then? :Cheeky:

Anyhow, if an animal is not endangered, much better to have it in the wild.There are two points to prison:
1) Segregation from society of those who are perceived as a threat to order. Repeat violent offenders, for example, can't be trusted not to offend again... so we need to put them somewhere.
2) Rehabilitation. Some people both need to and can learn to be better people, so having a prison of this sort gives us a place to send people for that.

Thing is, rehabilitation only works if you treat people with dignity; treat someone like a monster, and they'll become a monster. Prisons as they currently are actually tend to make things worse... completely backward and pointless.

[jayh]

...
Anyhow, if an animal is not endangered, much better to have it in the wild.

Not necessarily so. In th wild animals often have shorter lives, more disease and insufficient food. The concept of 'freedom' is a human conceit born partly of our mental structure, and to expect animals to want this mysterious state is a kind of anthromorphising.

[Potoooooooo]

That also raises the question of why the "being chased for ages" strategy arose in the wild. I guess it selects for cheetahs that have good speed and endurance, an obvious advantage for a predator that chases down its prey.
If it were not for this irregularity, they might be common domestic animals today. They tame fairly easily and were once popular as hunting animals.

[SteveP]

A pet cheetah? That'd be awesome!

*Imagines neighborhood paperboy frantically pedalling bicycle as cheetah closes in at 60 mph*

[Potoooooooo]

A pet cheetah? That'd be awesome!

*Imagines neighborhood paperboy frantically pedalling bicycle as cheetah closes in at 60 mph*
Indeed, see here http://www.felidae.org/LIBRARY/divyabhanusinh.pdf

[Yosei]

...
Anyhow, if an animal is not endangered, much better to have it in the wild.

Not necessarily so. In th wild animals often have shorter lives, more disease and insufficient food. The concept of 'freedom' is a human conceit born partly of our mental structure, and to expect animals to want this mysterious state is a kind of anthromorphising.

I would say the human compulsion to interfere and control is far more arrogant. If we are so concerned about the problems Nature can do to our non-human brethren, let's make a global zoo. That will solve all our problems, and create more.

And I know well current prisons are pretty shitty.