Cure For Cancer

[JustinFoldsFive]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi84.html

Does anyone know anything about this supposed cure for cancer?

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think much of the site.

[paradigm9]

the dreaded C word...and i dont mean cancer.

main problem is that there's evidence suggesting that immune system invisibility is a pre-requisite for tumor formation. they also leave out the whole evolution thing. even though tumors generally arise from a single cell they are very heterogeneous. just like a bacteria treated with antibiotics or other agent, you select for tumor cells that are resistant or immune to the therapy.

they also have a knack for turning things around and figuring out a way to use the MAF to HELP them.

always take blanket conclusions with a grain of salt. cure what type of cancer? they sure as hell are very different from one another. can it cure a brain tumor? how could you even deliver it? no immune system in the brain really....what about pancreatic where there's shitloads of normal cells in the tumor?

[crispy]

main problem is that there's evidence suggesting that immune system invisibility is a pre-requisite for tumor formation. they also leave out the whole evolution thing. even though tumors generally arise from a single cell they are very heterogeneous. just like a bacteria treated with antibiotics or other agent, you select for tumor cells that are resistant or immune to the therapy.


Seems like the cancer cells have to evolve a way to hide from the immune system then? I figure that if this really is the case, that the immune system have been neutralized for killing cancer and reactivating it kills at least a large potion of the cancer cells, then this is very good news. It might not be a cure, but couple it with normal chemotherapy and you'd get a hell of a lot better chance of surviving.

I'll wait a little with being optimistic tho, as it has just been published and needs to be reviewed :>

[crispy]

By the way, how would a patent on that stuff work?

I bet the guy who made is has a patent, but is it against the law to make it for free and give it away without infringing the patent?

[paradigm9]

Seems like the cancer cells have to evolve a way to hide from the immune system then? I figure that if this really is the case, that the immune system have been neutralized for killing cancer and reactivating it kills at least a large potion of the cancer cells, then this is very good news. It might not be a cure, but couple it with normal chemotherapy and you'd get a hell of a lot better chance of surviving.


this starts to get a bit heavy...but in a lot of cases, if not all solid tumors, the supporting tissue around the tumor becomes...altered. the connective tissue around a tumor isnt normal. it can help filter out tumor infiltrating immune system cells along with the chemicals that signal immune system activation (cytokines/chemokines).

there's also some strong evidence that if you take out a tumor and put normal cells in the "bed" where the tumor was...the connective tissues seems to be able to transform them. that is, make them tumorigenic...it gets really complicated. cancer is some nasty shit.

then you get to the natural selection aspect. one example, there's a tumor killing cytokine that signals the immune system to come attack. some metastatic tumors can use it to their advantage. they secrete it when they're in the blood stream and a clot forms around the tumor cells making them sticky. they stick to the blood vessel wall and that allows them to more easily invade out of the blood stream into foreign tissues (extravasate).

you hit the nail on the head though. coupling therapies together with the typical uber poisonous chemotherapy drugs is the way to do it. but these "cure" therapies are usually bogus. mainly because the tumor cells are still your cells. there isnt an easy way to distinguish them from normal cells...if there was the tumor wouldnt have formed. the human body is quite skilled at sensing and eliminating pre-tumors or actual tumors.

the ones that actually form to become dangerous were invisible for some reason.

By the way, how would a patent on that stuff work?

I bet the guy who made is has a patent, but is it against the law to make it for free and give it away without infringing the patent?

you would/could be sued to hell and back. i didnt read the site too carefully but most of the publications looked pretty old. if there was a patent its probably expired. if it was really promising a pharma company would snatch it. they give "shut up" money...as in here's a few million, now shut up and give us the patent.

[LeoM]

It's interesting that even though medicine has advanced so much we still ahve no cure for all types of cancer.

[premjan]

Cancer is actually a rebellion of cells against the tyranny of the body. Why should organisms and cells not be immortal anyway?

[javarush]

If nothing else, this research deserves interest and followup. However, I'm a bit leery of the claim of no side-effects. This claim seems to be based on the apparent safety of the Gc protein, the small dosages, the relatively short 6-day half-life of activated macrophages, and the silence of any mention of side-effects at 4 and 7 year follow-ups. But the thought of overdriving the immune system scares me. More and larger well designed trials are needed to define target tissue selectivity and specificity.

Political commentary: Looking at some websites, this research seems to attract a lot of tirades along the lines of "not patentable, therefore not worth the investment from profit-driven pharmaceutical industry". It echos the frustrations, despair, and rage of those who are actually suffering. Perfectly understandable; a good portion of my job involves cancer patient referrals and it's difficult to absorb the tragedy of it all. Nevertheless, this rant completely ignores the elementary fact that good-will has business value. Imagine how dominant a company will become in the public eye if it's the first to release a cheap, effective, broad-spectrum cancer cure. Imagine how people will flock to its stock, sing its praises, and shit on the twitching carcasses of its competitors. This theme also responds to the idea of an industry-wide conspiracy to keep such therapies off the market. That is, no one gets an advantage so that all can share in the profits of status-quo. But conspiracies work if there is the threat of mutual destruction; i.e. if all don't stand together, all will fall. But here, the clear winner will be the first one to break away and put a working magic bullet on the shelves -- if not one of the Big-Pharma, then one of the other guys.

[crispy]

If nothing else, this research deserves interest and followup. However, I'm a bit leery of the claim of no side-effects. This claim seems to be based on the apparent safety of the Gc protein, the small dosages, the relatively short 6-day half-life of activated macrophages, and the silence of any mention of side-effects at 4 and 7 year follow-ups. But the thought of overdriving the immune system scares me. More and larger well designed trials are needed to define target tissue selectivity and specificity.

Political commentary: Looking at some websites, this research seems to attract a lot of tirades along the lines of "not patentable, therefore not worth the investment from profit-driven pharmaceutical industry". It echos the frustrations, despair, and rage of those who are actually suffering. Perfectly understandable; a good portion of my job involves cancer patient referrals and it's difficult to absorb the tragedy of it all. Nevertheless, this rant completely ignores the elementary fact that good-will has business value. Imagine how dominant a company will become in the public eye if it's the first to release a cheap, effective, broad-spectrum cancer cure. Imagine how people will flock to its stock, sing its praises, and shit on the twitching carcasses of its competitors. This theme also responds to the idea of an industry-wide conspiracy to keep such therapies off the market. That is, no one gets an advantage so that all can share in the profits of status-quo. But conspiracies work if there is the threat of mutual destruction; i.e. if all don't stand together, all will fall. But here, the clear winner will be the first one to break away and put a working magic bullet on the shelves -- if not one of the Big-Pharma, then one of the other guys.

BigPharma still have to conduct clinical trials which cost hundreds of millions of dollars still, and if they are not able to patent that drug they are not very likely to develop this further. However, i think state funded health care systems will be quite interested in this, as really want to optimize treatment of patients. Sooner or later someone will pick up on this and develop it further if it really is a viable treatment.

[paradigm9]

Cancer is actually a rebellion of cells against the tyranny of the body. Why should organisms and cells not be immortal anyway?

not evolutionarily feasible...you would be competing with your own offspring for scarce resources. natural selection cures that...

the number i had to memorize was $300,000,000+ PER COMPOUND to go through FDA clinical trials. that doesnt include the cost of pure, basic research. pharma companies lose money like a gambling addict stuck on roulette.

BUT it only takes one viagra to make SHITLOADS of money.