Tammuz
August 9, 2008, 06:24 AM
I'm quite suprised I haven't come across this argument on any English site, considering that the Swedish discussion about religion, humanism, morality etc is pretty much an Anglo-Saxon import. Anyways, here is a (my) translation of an article (an excerpt of a book actually) outlining the argument:
Morality can't come from God!
Try the following thought-experiment, preferably together with a believing friend: Ask him (or her) if he regard morality as being created by God and that it thereby motivates him to do good. Ask if he for example would assault, murder and rape if there was no god?
If the answer is yes, then it is probably not appropriate to continue to see each other. What if your friend one beautiful day lose faith in God? It seems to be lethally dangerous to be close to him then. If the answer is no, then no god is needed for your friend to abstain from such immoral behavior. Thus, he abstains because of some other reason than that God exists. The question at issue is actually this: Is an act morally right because God says so, or do God say so because the act is morally right?
If the act is good and right only because God says so, then that means that the act doesn't have any moral value in itself. God can create whatever moral principles he wants and they become right because he decides that. Can then an evil god encourage evil acts and make them morally right? Such an opinion about moral acts contradicts our common sense. Here, morality becomes completely arbitrary. Torture of innocents would be wrong, even if God had commanded it.
Maybe the believer now objects, that God would not issue loveless commands. He recognizes that torture of innocents would be wrong, and therefore doesn't order us to act in that way. He realizes that happiness is good, and therefore orders us to act in a way that makes us happy. But in that case, we have abandoned the idea that God created the moral principles. Now, it apparantly exists a moral standard that God conducts himself to. Morality thus is independent from God. A moral act is good because of some other reason than that God wants it. Thus, God wants us to act in a specific way because the acts already are morally right, with or without his will.
Because a humanist doesn't believe in God, the dilemma above isn't very problematic. But the reasoning is important to realize that morality exists regardless if God exists or not.
Original link. (http://www.exkristen.se/artiklar/filosofi/moralen_kan_inte.htm)
What do you think?
Morality can't come from God!
Try the following thought-experiment, preferably together with a believing friend: Ask him (or her) if he regard morality as being created by God and that it thereby motivates him to do good. Ask if he for example would assault, murder and rape if there was no god?
If the answer is yes, then it is probably not appropriate to continue to see each other. What if your friend one beautiful day lose faith in God? It seems to be lethally dangerous to be close to him then. If the answer is no, then no god is needed for your friend to abstain from such immoral behavior. Thus, he abstains because of some other reason than that God exists. The question at issue is actually this: Is an act morally right because God says so, or do God say so because the act is morally right?
If the act is good and right only because God says so, then that means that the act doesn't have any moral value in itself. God can create whatever moral principles he wants and they become right because he decides that. Can then an evil god encourage evil acts and make them morally right? Such an opinion about moral acts contradicts our common sense. Here, morality becomes completely arbitrary. Torture of innocents would be wrong, even if God had commanded it.
Maybe the believer now objects, that God would not issue loveless commands. He recognizes that torture of innocents would be wrong, and therefore doesn't order us to act in that way. He realizes that happiness is good, and therefore orders us to act in a way that makes us happy. But in that case, we have abandoned the idea that God created the moral principles. Now, it apparantly exists a moral standard that God conducts himself to. Morality thus is independent from God. A moral act is good because of some other reason than that God wants it. Thus, God wants us to act in a specific way because the acts already are morally right, with or without his will.
Because a humanist doesn't believe in God, the dilemma above isn't very problematic. But the reasoning is important to realize that morality exists regardless if God exists or not.
Original link. (http://www.exkristen.se/artiklar/filosofi/moralen_kan_inte.htm)
What do you think?