Atheists' Testimony Thread

[dogwood]

Welcome to the Atheist's Testimony Thread! This thread is an edited version of the original version (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42237). This thread will have all of the testimony and very little of the banter and off-topic posts. Please feel free to add your own testimony.

What brought you to atheism? Are you a former Christian? Jew? Buddhist? Zoroastrian? Or were you brought up among free-thinkers? What was the "last straw" for you? What brought you over to the light side?

Note: I am fixing the coding problems from the conversion to VBulletin, so if you see an "edited by Maverick" you will know why. Maverick

[Wargarden]

Death. A God who has it in his power to eliminate death and suffering and doesn't is no God at all.
Oh yeah, and no proof. I want flaming letters in the sky and tours of Heaven and Hell on each birthday. After that, we'll see.

[HelenM]

simple. Crhristians who treated me like shit and atheists who didn't.

[Jewel]

Science, mostly. History, as well.

Helen, I'm a bit confused. You're not atheist, are you? I mean, are you?

-jewel

[HelenM]

[Edited 6/9/02 to add this comment]: I am reluctant to mess up the integrity of this thread by changing my posts from last summer, but please understand that I have a diagnosed mental illness and what I posted then may not reflect my current views!

I still might edit some of them to some extent, since I find them embarrassing... :o

love
Helen]

oh yeah, also reading the Bible and deciding it's being read and understood all wrong by my subculture. (that's quite frustrating actually because it's proving seemingly impossible to discuss that with them)

no i'm not atheist jewelc maybe i ought not be posting on this thread.

well i am a bit in the sense discussed on the Feedback Discussion board. i.e. believing in a bit different God from many people i'm at church with, i guess.

my theology would seriously offend them - is my guess. basically i think everyone's going to heaven, (eventually) ;)

is that enough for me to post here or - not?

lr&r
helen

p.s. i might be mean but i don't think you are :D

(not to worry if you don't get that p.s. - it was just a sort of - joke...not that you are not mean - i ment that - but that it is a worthwhile response to your comments...)

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: HelenSL ]

[ June 09, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>

[Doubting Thomas]

My story is HERE. (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/matthies.html)

Hint: I'm not an atheist.

;)

-T

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: Doubting-Thomas ]

[Strelnieks]

The closest thing I have ever had to an atheist "epiphany" or conversion experience was actually long after - nine years after - I had already admitted to others that I don't believe in gods. It was toward the beginning of the time in 1997 when I started to really explore the issue and consider the arguments for and against theism systematically.

I stopped near a street stand that had been set up in Konstanz, Germany, by the local Mormon mission. I had been reading and thinking a lot about religion and atheism and felt like talking about it with them. But I also felt nervous. I had been brought up in an environment where you don't talk about religion, espeically not confrontationally. You leave people alone on that issue. And these were schooled missionaries who would perhaps tear my position to shreds, an embarassing experience. Was I prepared? I had never really debated before. Would I fall into some argument trap?

Well, I hung around the sign a little and let them talk to me about Joseph Smith and the reestablished church and all that nonsense. Then, gradually, I started asking questions. After about an hour, I started getting into the core issues of epistomology, ontology and stuff. And I couldn't believe it. They didn't know anything. The answers were ridiculous. I had been nervous about confronting schooled missionaries, about breaking tabus - and all I found was intellectual bankrupcy and - this is important - a feeling of power.

Ever since then, especially when I get into debates with theists, I wonder why I really am a materialist. Is it because the arguments and evidence are better, or is it because of the almost religious feeling of being right? Are all the logical and scientific arguments just a post-facto justification for my non-belief, or are they really the reason why I am an atheist? I would like to think the latter, but I can never be sure.

Strelnieks
(Is librarian still on these boards?)

[Boshko]

I was a very liberal Christian. Reading Asimov's Guide to the Bible pushed me a lot of the way towards Deism but what made my an atheist was internet discussions especially when all the insane and genocidal bits of the OT were dredged up. Having most online atheists be much nicer, more intelligent, and less pompous than online theists sure didn't hurt either.

[Undercurrent]

For me, the last straw, was my Jesus-soaked catholic (French Canadian) roommate during my third year of university. He was very much into theology, anti-gay, &c. He was very pro-conservative morality in words, but was also very "sinful" (i.e. he was a philanderer -- I don't think those screams of "Good lord Jesus! Yes! Yes! Yes! coming from his room were prayers :) .)

Anyway, at the time I was a borderline catholic. I'd stopped going to church (except to please the parents when I visited) a couple of years back, and he was pressuring me that I had to take a side -- either with God's elect (like him) or the infidels. I think he assumed that when push came to shove I'd take his side.

And he was absolutely right, I couldn't consistently hold a view that was some kind of hybrid between catholic and secular. I couldn't really say, "I don't agree with most of catholic doctorine, but I'm still catholic."

The final straw came when Kent Hovind came to town and he suggested we go. I was never a creationist, but always up for a good laugh. I totally could not believe how people were just lapping up such obvious bullshit. I the sad thing was, I couldn't say that the reasons I held to for believing in god were any better than Hovind's bullshit claims for creationism.

Within a few days of that I'd formally deconverted in my mind.

m.

[DarkBronzePlant]

I'd always felt that I was just a Christian due to "guilt by association". That is, my parents had always taken me to church; that is, until I was in eigth grade. Then, our attendence began lapsing. Still, if anyone had asked me whether I believed in god, I would've said yes, mainly because at the time I didn't mind being a sheep, and hadn't really thought critically about what I was saying.

Probably the turning point for me (if we were talking about WW2 in the Pacific, this was my Battle of Midway) was a comparative literature class I took when I was a freshman in college. We read and compared a number of mythologies, including Greek mythology, Roman mythology, Native American mythology, and Christian mythology. I was blown away by the similarities between the myths. Not in terms of events that each claimed happened; those were quite different. But the use of symbolism, metaphor, styles of story-telling... it began to dawn on me that Christianity, in fact, might be just another myth.

From that point, I actually began thinking about it, and not just accepting things at face value. My belief--or, rather, disbelief--just got stronger and stronger from that point on. For awhile, I was still afraid to admit to myself that I truly didn't believe, as if god might hear me (just in case I was wrong) and get pissed. So for awhile, I was sort of just playing it safe -- sort of like Pascal's Wager.

I think it was another class I took--a behavioral science class--that made me begin thinking more about human nature. It was then that I realized how humankind, any civilization, needs to invent the concept of god to be able to cope with the unknown and be able to control its hordes. If this was a trial, and my comparative lit class was the evidence, then this was the motive. I was convinced, I convicted Christianity, and have denounced it ever since.

And have felt much better about myself ever since.

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: DarkBronzePlant ]

[Eudaimonist]

What was the last straw that resulted in my atheism? It wasn't anything Christians did. It was the philosophy of Ayn Rand that encouraged me to think of myself as an atheist instead of an agnostic. Originally, I was a Catholic.

[ July 27, 2001: Message edited by: Eudaimonia ]

[Ut]

I was raised as a Catholic (though I realized that my parents only wanted it as a way of giving morals, they didn't really pushed any nonsense). When I learned science at high school, I realized that most of what religion said about the world was bunk and that Nature didn't need a God to work and I began to doubt. Seeing a television program on the secrets of magicians and reading the book 1984 made me think about the importance of skepticism. What was the last straw is when I had a course about other religions than Christianity. When I saw that every culture made their own myths and religions, it became obvious for me that Christianity was man-made and it was GG thereafter.

[Queen of Swords]

I was raised a Catholic, baptized, communioned, confirmed, the whole eucharista. Then when I was a stupid sixteen, along came Jack Chick tracts to inform me that I was going to burn in hell for ever n ever. I believed it all and became a fundamentalist christian, born again (I went down on my knees and accepted the Holy Spirit) and for the next year I struggled with two problems (1) all my Muslim friends could not be going to hell... could they? (2) evolution made sense... how could it be?

Eventually I realized that both the faiths were devoid of any substance, and all they did was produce fear and guilt. Catholicism has the Inquisition for the former and the Vatican for the latter, but Fundamentalist Christianity has HELL and the Three-Day Sacrifice. And I have peace of mind since I disassociated from the both of them. Sayonara.

[Marguerite]

A slow realization that I was believing because I wanted to believe. It was convenient and I didn't have to think too much. Realizing that I had serious doubts about my faith scared me and really tore me up inside. That's when I began reading The
Happy Heretic and this website. I'm feeling much better now. Ironically, Bishop Spong's writing helped me feel really good about being an atheist.

[Corona688]

It happened when I was outraged at the Kansas school board for banning the scientific monolith of evolution. I was so pissed that I trolled the web looking for a good angry argument where I could smash someone's face in with logic and reason. Luckily, I calmed down 3 seconds before I found this place. ;)

[Mageth]

I'm new here, been lurking for a while though. I'm a former "Christian" who always harbored, but suppressed, deep doubts about the truth of Christianity. About a year ago I moved into an office at work with a good friend of mine who is a skeptic. We began having long talks about Theism, Zen, Physics, etc., and through this and personal research (reading a lot, books plus online stuff like the II library and forums) I came to the conclusion that I'd been wasting my time trying to make myself believe in something that I knew didn't exist.

[HelenM]

This thread made me think more about what I am and decide that while I am a Christian I am also an agnostic. I wrote about it on my site today...my agnosticism (http://www.mildenhall.net/writings/dontknow.html), that is. fwiw. Long and rambling as usual - you have been warned... ;)

lr&r
helen

[edited 6/12/01 so the link will continue to work; I rewrote the page also, so it's not 'long and rambling' anymore - I hope! :D ]

[ June 12, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]

[Evolved]

When I was about 10 my Mom started making my brother and me go to Sunday school it was my Grandpa's wish.(though he never attended church himself)

I received a bible from the church in 1979 and I was 12 yrs old. I did sit down and start reading it and was :confused: by the ages of people in the bible,(Hey Mom! Did you know folks lived to be 700-900 yrs old?)
the fact that marrying their 1st cousins was preferrable,(Hey Mom! Isn't that incest? Of course not dear but it's still not good.) Adam and Eve propogating, (Hey Mom! Wouldn't the boys have to marry their Mom to have kids and wouldn't the kids be retarded?)And on and on and on........

Of course I harassed the Rev. unmercifully but he was unable to even give one decent response to my questions.

I questioned everythingin the bible, it really felt "made up" to me. I had a very hard time believing that anything in the bible actually happened.

I told my Mom that I didn't believe in god and I didn't want to go to Sunday school anymore. She said I was just trying to get out of going. :mad:

At 14 yrs old my Biology teacher gave a one hour talk about the Big Bang Theory and Evolution and whammo!there was my answer.

I looked up anything I could about both subjects at school and even showed my folks the stuff I found and they finally relented and let me quit going to church.

The one thing that really, really convinced me was the death of my cousin. He was ten years older than me and I idolized the ground he walked on. He was the most wonderful man that was ever born to this earth. I'm sure you've figured out that he passed away that same year of bone cancer. That cancer is so terrible, they all are but this one is very painful. And he was in so much pain that morphine didn't relieve it, they ended up giving him marijuana during his last days to try and make him more comfortable.

At his funeral all I could scream in my head was: "You fucking heartless piece of shit! What kind of god are you to take such a wonderful man and kill him this way? He believed in you! Is this how you treat your faithful followers!"

I decided right then and there that their was no god. And that was 20 yrs ago last spring.

I agree with DarkBronzePlant:I have felt much better about myself ever since.

Evolved
:D

[karma]

No big epiphany moment for me...I was formerly a Methodist/Baptist type (kind of a social church-goer) who never got up the guts to get baptized yet was always terrified I would go to hell for not being offially dunked. I always had a ton of questions that Sunday School teachers couldn't answer, and pretty lame science classes in school that didn't offer anything better. So my turning point was going to college and learning some real science. All of a sudden I had some answers that made sense to me...then all that was left was to give up my fear of being struck down by lightning for daring to ask the big question and start real skepticism. I really admitted it wholly I guess when I found out a professor and some fellow students that I really liked were all atheists. I had never known anyone who not a xian sheep before, so it was like "cool, they're nice, normal, and think like ME! It's OK not to believe!". That's when I acknowledged what my rationalism had led me to...ATHEIST!

[4th Generation Atheist]

You know, I'm fairly sure I've done a post kind of like this before. Couldn't resist, though. Feel free to skip over it if I bore you.

What brought me to atheism, in short, was birth. On my father's side I am indeed a 4th Gen atheist as my screen name states. My mother was born into a faith, Christian of some kind but I'm not sure what. I do know her family was Freemasons. She apparently belonged to one of the "girls' auxiliaries" before leaving it, because as many of you will know the Masonic organizations do not accept atheists, and this is what she'd come to. She remained an uncompromising "Godless infidel" until her dying day. My grandmother still believes but will not talk to me about it, a situation I make no attempt to "remedy". She is philosophically from the nineteenth century anyway, though thankfully we were on the Yankee side of the war (no offense to any Southerners here.)

When I was a child I thought that religion consisted of Christians and Jews. Despite the prevalence of church buildings and other such structures I thought that the world had given up religion. When my (watered-down theist) uncle took me to churches when they weren't in session to see the architecture (he was kind of a "mad architect") I thought they were being maintained as museums. Priests just struck me as odd adults.

When I was in elementary school it all came out when I didn't understand the "under God" part of the Pledge of Allegiance. This was the early seventies and it caused a good-size stink when another student kind of caught me not saying "under God". I pointed out that my last teacher didn't make me say it because I didn't believe in God. My tone suggested that the other kids would soon give this belief up too, like with Santa Claus.

In the end the result was martial arts lessons. BTW, did you know that when "atheist" is pronounced with no front teeth the result is "afiess"?

It's only fairly recently that I have learned that many consider the word itself an insult. All the while I was growing up I thought the main problem was just my lack of belief. I was probably right, but I recently did have to apologize to a freethinking friend for calling him an atheist; I thought I was just describing his unbelief. Turns out there are many non-believers whose opinions fit under atheism, even fairly strong atheism, who really hate the word. And I grew up with it. Odd.

Afiess unite! :D Next coming-out story?

[Malcolm]

I am from a conservative baptist background, having been a lay-preacher myself.

My "conversion" to atheism came over a long period, but accelerated rapidly towards the end. I came to see that the god of the bible is a god of hatred, rather than a god of love. The old testament is full of nationalism, racism, homophobia, whole-scale slaughter of people and animals, rape, incest etc. A god who creates people with "original sin" meaning that they are only fit for an eternity of torture is a sadist, and as far removed from love as possible.

A brief saunter though some of the other religions seemed to indicate to me that they are all based on fear, wishful thinking, nationalism etc - but mainly fear. I don'tneed that in my life and have been immensely liberated since ditching christianity, though I am still angry that I was duped by those lies for so many years! :mad:

[ July 29, 2001: Message edited by: MalcolmR ]

[Howard]

I ended up an atheist primarily because of strong encouragement from my family... who apparently were horrified at the prospect of spending all eternity with me.

[4th Generation Atheist]

Oops! You're right: this topic is apparently for athIEsts, and I am and athEIst. Close enough, though? ;)

Really, I find that typo annoying too. I make it all the time, and don't always catch it in time to correct it. But isn't it even more annoying when theists----thiests I guess----spell it that way ALL THE TIME? I grew up in the Northern Midwest where the word as actually usually pronounced that way. But on the other hand they also say "nucular". Grrr.

My upbringing did not prepare me for the opposition I was to receive, and that's really the only place where I'd fault it (with regards to religion, anyway.) I think they did try. I was warned not to talk about religion with my friends (though I remember on one occasion saying, "Dad, you have to stop telling my friends there's no God. It makes them cry.") I was also warned on specific occasions such as overnights with friends ("they sometimes ask guests to say Grace. Politley decline then bow your head. Don't look up until you hear 'Amen'".) Often this didn't come up though, because my friends would already know I was an "afeiss" and take care of the problem themselves.

The main problem with this approach was the odd feeling, at times, that we were visiting aliens in a tribe of head-hunters. I still get that feeling.

Right now it seems that one thing I can do is provide help and support to others who may be deconverting, to the best I'm able anyway, who weren't as "lucky" as me. I've met a bunch: college friends trying to get off the Mormon rolls, people trying to avoid living with fundie parents during the 1990 recession, etc. I've heard horror stories concerning Catholic upbringing, so I suppose I've done my fair share of "thanking my lucky stars." Bulletin board systems such as this one can provide some help, as can organizations, but really it's best to just keep your ears open when someone is deconverting. Otherwise they may go back, and you will have lost a potential ally.

People interested in bringing up their own kids without religion might check out the Positive Atheism site and magazine (
web page (http://www.positiveatheism.org)). They seem to have some suggestions. My parents didn't have this, and neither did my other atheist ancestors and they did all right, but modern atheist parents might find it interesting.

[crazyfingers]

Well, I suppose I'll add my 2 bits but it's not the usual story.

I was born an atheist. Once when I was around 10 years old I told my mother that I was an atheist. She said, "well, since you can't actually prove that there is no god, them you're probably an agnostic". So for about 5 more years I figured that I was an agnostic.

Religion hardy ever came up in my regular life so I never much thought about it. The only reason I had to believe that religion existed was that my uncle is a minister. As a kid we went to visit him and that was the one time I went to church. I recall saying to my dad that my uncle must be kinda dumb to believe in god. My dad, who really likes my uncle, told me that “just because he believes in god doesn’t mean he’s dumb”. My uncle the minister loved to drink and party. So I figured religion, though silly, probably wasn't that dangerous. But, I had a hard time understanding how someone could make a living being a minister. It seemed like such a fake job. Maybe some day he’d grow out of it and get a real job…

Anyway, it wasn’t until I was in college and Ronald Reagan was elected president in my freshman year that I realized two things.

1: Some people actually do believe in god. It was difficult for me to accept this, but seeing the evidence, it had to be true that some people, for reasons I could not explain, actually believed that stuff.

2: Some of those people who believe in god are very dangerous.

So that is the story of how I came to understand that some people believe in god. It was a long road for me but I think that I now accept that fact – bizarre as it all still seems to me.

[Vorkosigan]

I've always been an atheist, long as I can remember. I started reading SF in the 4th grade -- first book was City at World's End, which I still have. Harry Harrison and Isaac Asimov were big influences, especially the second book of Harrison's Deathworld trilogy.

When I was in early adolescence I told my dad I was an atheist. That was the only time in my whole life my father threatened to hit me. As if to ensure that I would always be an atheist, they forced me to go to church as long as I lived under their roof. I moved out at 18. It was a powerful lesson in how nasty even the most decent people will get if you threaten their beliefs; coercion backed up by the threat of violence.

Ironically, my father is now an atheist (I think, but only the dead are more sparing in sharing their inner life than my father). I think he has tried to apologize to me, but I have never heard the actual words.

In some ways I envy people who were theists during their cognizant life. They have stories to tell. I was a theist when I was little, I am sure, but my earliest memories, from about the 6th grade, are all atheist.

Michael

[Maverick]

I’ve told this story before, but there are quite a few newcomers since then so here it is again. Unfortunately it seems to get longer and more detailed with every telling ;).

I was raised a Lutheran by my Lutheran mother. My father is a burnt-out Catholic who has avoided church for as long as I can remember (my grandmother pushed him to become a priest).

Both sets of extended family are devote Christians – they just happen to think the other set is completely wrong. Because of this my Catholic grandmother demanded that my parents wait to have myself and my brother baptized until we were old enough to choose for ourselves the correct religion (Catholic or Lutheran).

I got a late start at indoctrination because my mother waited to enroll us in Sunday School until my younger brother (by 3 years) was old enough to go too. I attended Lutheran church and Sunday School every Sunday from that point on.

Around about 6th grade I started some internal questioning of the dogma I was being fed, but that is as far as it went. That changed in eighth grade when I was in confirmation class.

In confirmation class I was required to complete a set number of units in each of the two years of the program. At the end of each unit you had an individual oral exam with the pastor followed by an open question forum (in private with the pastor). I used that question forum to ask all the awkward questions that had been bugging me (“so Cain married who?” ;).

The answers were very unsatisfactory, and I privately discounted the Lutheran religion. Still, at the end of second year of confirmation class (9th grade) I was baptized and confirmed. I stood in front of the church and lied about my faith.

After that I stopped going to church, and simply became non-religious. “True love" made me lapse into Christianity again as a Presbyterian. I even taught Sunday School and Youth group.

I finally had to stop lying to myself, and I seriously began examining my beliefs. This process happened in secret, and took several years. In the meantime I got married to that “true love”. About three years ago I told my wife that I was an agnostic, and I quite teaching Sunday school.

Last summer I discovered Bill’s website The Agnostic Church (http://www.agnostic.org/) which in turn led me here. After delving into both sites I realized that I better fit the atheist label (Sorry Bill). My wife took it much harder when I told her I was an atheist. I guess she realized that I had completely shut the door on religion.

So that is it, I told you it was getting longer. Oh well.

Maverick

[ July 30, 2001: Message edited by: Maverick ]

[MadMordigan]

When I was in early adolescence I told my dad I was an atheist. That was the only time in my whole life my father threatened to hit me. As if to ensure that I would always be an atheist, they forced me to go to church as long as I lived under their roof. I moved out at 18. It was a powerful lesson in how nasty even the most decent people will get if you threaten their beliefs; coercion backed up by the threat of violence.

Your story is similar to my own. Was your father in the military?

[SallySmith]

It's kind of heartening to hear about all of the people brought up in religious homes who are now atheists. I always wondered what people's stories were so I'm glad someone started this thread.

I myself was raised sans religion. My parents are both atheists but this was never pushed on me. I remember trying to believe in god, particularly in the 4th grade, because all of my friends did. It didn't work. I was agnostic until early college and then I decided "Oh, to hell with it, I don't believe in god" and I got off the fence. I freely tell people I'm an atheist and I always seem to run into at least one super-religious co-worker. The last one (at my current job) was very interesting - I was the first atheist she had ever met and she was astounded because I seemed to be such a good person (with goals, plans, charitable leanings, etc.). She was an extremely naive person and I found it highly amusing that she (had) thought atheists were amoral directionless freaks.

I am happy to say I know for a fact I am directly responsible for at least one of my friends (who was a Christian) becoming an atheist. It started for her with the fact that her good friend, according to her religion, was going to suffer in hell for eternity and just kind of progressed from there.

[Vorkosigan]

Originally posted by MadMordigan:
It was a powerful lesson in how nasty even the most decent people will get if you threaten their beliefs; coercion backed up by the threat of violence.

Your story is similar to my own. Was your father in the military?

No, my Dad was a professor. He's a mixture of liberal and conservative traits, first in his family to go to college. He is the archetypal midwestern liberal, combining conservative family-oriented values with socially-progressive ideas on race, religion and politics. I think even when I was young he had serious doubts about god(s), but derived comfort from the community and ritual. He's a child language specialist, spent his life working with the handicapped and loves kids too much, I think, to ever forgive God for making so many of them maimed.

Your Dad in the military? They sometimes have a blind spot about god.

Michael

[trunks2k]

I've probably told this story once or twice before on this board but I'll tell it again.

I was born into a semi-catholic family (my dad was catholic, but my mom wasn't, which I only recently found out). My dad would take me to church every Sunday, which I didn't like b/c of all the sitting and standing, sitting and standing.... And when I was in 2nd grade I started going to a bible type class at my church on Saturdays. While in that class, which I loathed, I had numerous questions about things that didn't make sense to me, and I never got a good answer (or anythig CLOSE to a good answer). But I went with the flow not really caring that much about it, hell, I didn't even realize that I was having my first confession until my dad dragged me to the church on a Saturday night to go through the whole cermemony. Eventually I had my first communion and about a month after that we stopped going to church, excpet for x-mas, and a couple years after that we stopped even going at xmas. But I was still young, and thought I "believed" but as I got older I became a very liberal christian, and thought that Jesus was just one of many prophet type people that god put on the earth. I continued with this belief for a while, every other day forming an opinion different from that of the average Christians. Then I started attending a Catholic Highschool, by this time I was really indiffrent to religion, and really didn't agree with much of xianity at all, but still considered myself catholic. And this is where my "epiphany" occured. In my freshmen year at high school we were studying the protestant reformation (in history class) and we discussed the different beliefs that started taking hold and one seemed perfect, deism. So privately I considered myself a deist, but still tried to be xian. Over the next two years I became more and more active in church/state seperation, began to loath fundamentalists, refused to use god/bible for any argument and, thanks to religion class in school, had come to realize more and more problems with religion. So in my Junior year I had to write a letter to some organization regarding a moral issue, so I decided to write one about the seperation of church and state. My search for a suitable organization led me to this site, AU's site (whom I eventually wrote to), and other infidel sites. As I scanned over these sites I came up with more and more problems with religion and found out about agnosticism, which was pretty appealing. So I wrote my letter (I had to re-write it b/c I mentioned the school in it, because I had stopped saying the morning prayer and used it as an example, which my teacher didn't like). Even after all of this I still considered myself a xian. That same year in English class we read "The Night Thoreau Spent in Jail," which had a line about religious people being nothing but automatons,and having no real feeling about what they believed. That line stuck with me for the next few days and as I was sitting at mass a few days later the line kept repeating in my mind over and over and over again. As I looked around the chapel during the profession of faith I realized that the line was absolutly correct, I realized that I was fooling myself if I thought I could believe this crap, hell, I wasn't even sure if a god existed anymore. So right there I abondoned xianity, refused to take communion for the first time, and proclaimed myself an agnostic. Funny how my Catholic school made me into in agnostic.
After that day, interested in my new "belief" I began reading these boards regularly and becoming more and more secure in my ideas. And via these boards I discovered the SSA, wich introduced me to humanism, which had, I discovered, almost all the same ideas that I had. It felt great to find a "belief" sytem that already fit my "beliefs" instead of me trying to fit into another system.

Oh yeah, I also have to give a lot of credit to my friend Dave, who was the only person that I felt comfortable discussing my problems with religion. And who had the same ideas that I had and made me feel more secure in my opinions.

[2tadpoles]

Newbie here. :)

I have a rather...ahem....interesting background. My mother and biological father are from the midwest, and my stepdad is Japanese and was born and raised in Hawaii. My mom married him when I was two.

I was originally baptized in the Catholic church (my mom was going through a Catholic "phase" at the time), but my stepdad's family is Buddhist. We went to the temple a few times a year, but my parents weren't religious people.

Throughout my teens and early 20s, I rarely thought about religion. It wasn't important to me. I suppose I would have called myself an apathetic agnostic at the time.... "I don't know and don't really care" type of attitude.

I became interested in religion when my older son joined the Boy Scouts. I was very uncomfortable with the religious "requirements" and became angry at the discriminatory policies in the BSA. I began hearing about discontent between the BSA and the Unitarian Universalists....then I wondered "what the heck is a Unitarian Universalist?" Ironically, the BSA brought me to the UU church. I've done a lot of thinking about spiritual matters since that time, and I'm still an agnostic, but leaning towards atheism. My older son (9) is agnostic, and my 5 year old son is an atheist. My husband is an apathetic agnostic, as I used to be. :D

The funniest thing is that my small son has been adamant that there is no God ever since I mistakenly let him go to Vacation Bible School (with friends of ours) at the Baptist Church. He had nightmares for months, and the words "church" and "God" make him outright angry. I was dumbfounded... I mean, I never thought they'd use fire and brimstone on preschoolers! I seriously regret having let him go. I truly believed that they would talk about positive things there. DUH!

I believe that spirituality (or lack of it) is a personal matter, and I teach my boys about many faiths as well as evolution. I don't want them to have to wait until their thirties to figure out what they believe. We are a military family, and encounter people from all walks of life....I want them to be respectful of other people's beliefs (at least to their faces ;)) , even if they don't agree. Right now we live in Virginia, and there is a fundie church on just about every corner here. :(

[Bill]

I originally avoided this thread on general principles .... after all, as a Militant Agnostic (http://www.EvolveFISH.com/fish/media/MilitantAgnos.GIF), I'm only an atheist when it comes to Christianity (being, as I am, firmly convinced that Jesus was not, is not, and could never be "God" in any real sense of that word).

I'm one of those folks who took a long time to deconvert. The seeds were planted back in the middle-1970s when I dated a girl who was a devout "Charismatic Christian." It was all about how "God" this and "God" that and "God" was basically running her life for her by telling her what to do. Since I never once heard anything from "God," I started to wonder what was wrong with me.

Almost 15 years later, as I was reading Spengler (http://www.secweb.org/bookstore/author.asp?AuthorID=199), and he was talking about how every civilization in history had its own characteristic religion, and how Christianity was the particular religion for Western Civilization while Islam had been the particular religion for the Arab civilization, and so on and so forth, it gradually came to me that "Christianity was just another religion!" If I had any sort of epiphany, that was the limit of it.

I still couldn't really break free of religion, though. I kept searching for "religious truth," and spent some time examining "eastern religions" (Buddhism in particular). I ultimately decided that either I didn't understand it (which could still be true) or else it was just a different flavor of warmed-over mythology as any of the "western religions" with which I was by now all too familiar.

By this time, the Internet is opening to the public, and I found my way to alt.atheism.moderated (http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/alt.atheism.moderated/) where I encounterd a strong strain of fundamentalist atheism and I was about as turned off by atheism as I was by any other sort of religious dogmatism.

But my tour there did have some good effects in that I hooked up with Jeff Lowder who was, by then, the head of the Internet Infidels, and we agreed to help each other out in certain ways that led to the founding of the Internet Infidels as a corporation with full-up 501(c)(3) tax exempt status.

Still, even here, in the "heart of freethought on the web," I frequently find it necessary to defend an agnostic point of view from those damn fundamentalist atheists who seem to feel that one agnostic is too many......

I'm working up an article on just why the agnostic point of view has the only valid philosophical foundation while "hard core" atheism is based upon a century-old error in logic that is just now being rectified. But the topic expanded to beyond what I wanted to write about, and so I'm torn with either writing more that I don't really care about in order to justify my conclusions, or else just dropping the project..... Neither option is particularly attractive at the moment.

Anyway, enough about me......

== Bill

[ex-preacher]

From Bible Professor to Atheist

I was born and bred in the Church of Christ, a denomination somewhere to the right of Southern Baptists. My father was and is a missionary and a preacher. In fact, my family tree is crammed with preachers, teachers and elders, all in the Church of Christ. After growing up on the mission field, I became convinced that I wanted to be a preacher too.

On a side note, at one point we lived in Austin, Texas, where I attended junior high with Madalyn Murray O’Hair’s grandaughter, Robin. I did not know her but I remember seeing her in the cafeteria surrounded by Christians yelling and waving Bibles in front of her. As I recall, she soon transferred to a private school. I was very saddenned as I followed the news of the family’s disappearance and death.

I myself was the quite the young evangelist, but I don’t think I ever yelled at unbelievers or waved a Bible in anyone’s face. I did eagerly try to convert others. I was an ardent creationist, and even called in once to a radio show to potificate on the second law of thermodynamics. I went to a Christian college and married a preacher’s daughter whose family background and commitment to the faith matched my own.

After earning a bachelor’s degree in Bible, I went to a church-affiliated university in another state to earn a Master of Divinity, a 90 hour degree. I studied under conservative professors with degrees from Harvard, Yale, Duke and Oxford. They exposed me to all the viewpoints that might threaten my faith, but did so in a way intended to innoculated me. It worked to a large degree, but I was still faced with enormous challenges to my traditional views, especially in the areas of inspiration, evolution, and the existence of hell. I eventually rationalized that hell was not a place of eternal torment, but represented the total annihilation of unbelieving souls (a view that has some biblical support). I put my other questions “on the back burner.”

I became a minister in a large church in a suburb of Dallas, a stronghold for the Church of Christ. After 10 years, I earned a Doctor of Minister degree, a real doctorate, but one that focuses almost entirely on practical ministry (preaching, counseling, administration), not theology. Thus I was surprised to receive an offer to teach Bible at a Christian university. I accepted this golden opportunity – a job that most ministers would consider the pinnacle of a preacher’s career. It was while teaching Bible that I began to challenge myself (and my students challenged me) to get those difficult issues off the back burner and deal with them honestly.

It’s difficult to pinpoint a single event or issue that triggered my eventual decision to abandon Christianity. There were many issues that all seemed to coalesce: those mentioned earlier (inspiration, evolution, hell), plus others such as the ineffectiveness of prayer, biblical contradictions, the immorality of God, absurd statements of Jesus, and the fact that so many sincere believers disagreed on so many fundamental doctrines. Three key things seem to stand out:

1. I received and read a free desk copy of Bart Ehrman’s “The New Testament: A Historical Introduction.” Although I already knew most of the material, he brought it together in a way that devastated my notions of the New Testament.

2. I began surfing the internet and encountered many ideas and writings that I never would have sought out in a library. The three key websites were talkorigins.org, religioustolerance.org and infidels.org. I must thank the founders and maintainers of the Secular Web for exposing me to the writings of Ingersoll, Paine, Dan Barker, Jeff Lowder, Farrell Till (also ex-Church of Christ), Robert Price, and many others. I never ventured into the forum in those days, but the library made a huge impact on my thinking.

3. A young, enthusiastic missionary preached on prayer. He insisted that either Jesus was completely right about prayer (“ask anything in my name and I will give it to you.” ;) or he was completely wrong. He said that anything in between these positions was a rationalization and an insult to Jesus’ words. I had to agree with him. Only he forced me to conclude that Jesus was absolutely wrong.

My newfound convictions obliged me to quit my job as a part-time minister and resign my teaching position. My wife and three kids have been a tremendous personal support to me, although my views were very upsetting to my wife and oldest child. We relocated to a different city, I started on a Ph.D. in history and my wife went back to work to support our family. I attend the local UU church, while my wife & kids attend the C of C. I won’t get into the story of how my parents, siblings, and in-laws reacted to all of this. I am still somewhat “in the closet” out of respect for my family, several of whom are quite well known in “the brotherhood.” I also am keeping this from my elderly grandmother, who would be totally devastated.

I have a longer document which tells a little more about the specific issues that I wrestled with, if anyone out there is interested.

I am enjoying my interactions here at the II forum. I think this makes my 30th post, so I guess I’m a member! Yipee!
:D

[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: ex-preacher ]

[MadMordigan]

Your Dad in the military? They sometimes have a blind spot about god.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'blind spot'. Most of my conversations with military or ex-military men seem to point in the same direction; They believe in the Old Testament god. An intransiant god that demands respect and obeyance. One that will punish/destroy or reward/create not due to a morality but because He is in charge. The great uber-commantant in the sky.

I have always been an infidel. One of my first memories is arguing with my mother at the age of 4 that Santa Claus was not real. If Superman, a character that I saw every morning on TV, was just an actor playing 'make-believe', then the guy in the mall had to be an actor as well. It made my mother cry when I told her that I knew she was lying to me, but she still maintained the reality of SC for the next 2 Xmases. Although I didn't have the language to articulate my feelings, I knew that 'God' was just a Santa Claus for adults.

My father used to tell us bible stories. Not about Creation or the Resurection, but about the battles. He'd get all animated, and act out the roles of Samson or David or Joshua at the foot of our beds. He stressed that Jesus was a fighter, and that he kicked the hell out of the moneylenders in the Temple. But Jesus wasn't all that important to his theology. Was was important was the God was always to be obeyed. If God asked to jump, one was supposed to wait till he told you to come down.

We weren't involved in a church, my father distained public displays of emotions other than anger, and I don't think he held much stock in their constant harping on forgiveness and grace.

We confronted non-belief twice, and both times it came to blows. In particular, he once held me by the throat with both hands and choked me till I 'admited' that God existed.

I left home pretty much as soon as I turned 16, without a plan, a job, or an education. My wife, who I was seeing on and off since we were 12, came from a very fundy family, and it is a constant source of tension that I cannot take their beliefs seriously. Every single converstion about God degenerates into a "I know I am right because I know that I am right" tantalogical assertion by one of her relatives. Mostly I deal with it by keeping quiet, changing the subject, or just by being plain goofy.

The biggest problem I see is that we live in a world where co-operation on a global level is more-or-less required. Yet there are those who would disenfranchise, even slaughter those who do not believe in a collective delution. In day to day experience, the atheist/theist conflict doesn't really affect my life much.

[Jon]

I was born into a fundamentalist family. My parents were Bob Jones University graduates and my father went on to become a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary. My dad started several non-denominational evangelical churches, so I was a preachers kid up until the time dad decided to go into education. He had jobs as the principal of several Christian schools and started a few others. And I was still a PK. I grew up believing and quoting scripture ad nauseum simply because that’s all I knew. When I attended public schools (up to 6th grade. From that point I went to Christian schools) I remember getting into arguments in science class about my beliefs that God created the earth in 6 days, etc. to the point of enduring much ridicule and earning the name ‘Reptile’ (?). But I was steadfast, and pitied those poor classmates who didn’t know any better.

I guess things started changing for me when I was 16 or so. It was embarrassed to have parents who plastered their beliefs everywhere. (Bumper sticker on my parents car: ‘You’d smile too if you were going to heaven!’ I hated driving that thing!) And I wasn’t participating in the impromptu revivals that my high school had in their chapel services, where just about everyone was going forward and ‘rededicating’ their life to Christ. Somehow I didn’t feel the need to. After high school graduation, I mainly worked and went to junior college. And then my mom had the bright idea that if should attend Bob Jones. Of course I was hesitant, but mom promised me if I went they would pay for it. Well I couldn’t turn down free education. So I enrolled, saved up some money from a construction job I was working and headed off that fall.

If I had one year that I like to take back, it would be that one. I have plenty of anecdotes about that place but I’d rather not fill up the Secular Web servers. That year was pivotal for turning me against religiosity. I still believed in God after that, but wanted nothing to do with organized religion. I also ended up having to pay for that year’s worth of self-degradation myself.

I came back home and worked for about a year before joining the USAF for a stint. I got married, had a son and everything was going fairly dandily, but at about age 30 I felt I had to settle these nagging questions in my mind about God. So I headed off for ye ol’ public library. I think I was going about every two weeks and bringing back 10 – 15 books at a time. The first book that was what I consider close to an epiphany was ‘Age of Reason.’ In all the time I was growing up, I probably read the bible through about twice, but I never really READ it. And I never had had the type of perspective that Thomas Paine hoisted on me when I read that book. That book was the main catalyst in my deconversion but there were many others.

I went from being from theist, to deist for about a week, and finally to atheist. That was over a 3 month period. My wife at the time was completely distressed, but the worm had turned and I couldn’t go backwards. After we divorced, she immediately started attending church and continues to this day.

I didn’t get around to telling the rest of my family for quite a while. I would argue with my mom about religion in general, evolution, etc. but she didn’t equate all of this with being atheist. She thought I was just confused and searching.

At this point my mom, dad, brother and sister all know I don’t believe so that leaves me an easy target for constant proselytizing. My sister has sent books, tapes and emails bemoaning my condition and pleading for me to change before I go to hell. (you guys have never heard that one before, eh?) Mom has gotten to a level of acceptance, but still gets distraught when we bring up my atheism. My brother and I had one argument, which came to a draw, and he hasn’t brought it up the topic since. But we get along fine.

But the biggest blow they received was when I told them I was a libertarian. They haven’t gotten over that one.

But otherwise, I feel confident with who I am. Everyone I work with as well as friends all know I'm atheist. My girlfriend (also atheist) and I share the same ideals and goals. Right now life is good.

[Doug]

My story is pretty similar to many others on this site. I am originally from Houston where I grew up in a typical, middle class, cookie cutter, suburban area. Both my parents were raised Baptists but when I was born they were evidently "back sliding Baptists", not really going to church very often and occasionally doing evil things like going out dancing and having a drink now and then.

When I was 11 months old we moved into our new house in the suburbs. Within a few months they were visited by a young Baptist minister who had recently graduated from seminary who told my parents he was starting a Baptisit "mission" affiliated with an older church in the area.

My parents began attending the "mission" the day it opened and along with my older half brother were 3 of the original 50 members of the church. Today that church has over 12,000 members and my parents are still active members. This was, of course, the church in which I grew up.

This church was (and is) a conservative Southern Baptist church. Biblical literalism reigned supreme and sermon topics were often about hell as a destination for non-believers and the "second coming of Jesus". I attended Sunday School and church there from my earliest memories and was completely indoctrinated by the time I was 7 or 8 years old.

I was around 8 the first time I came forward during the "invitation" and "accepted Jesus as my savior". For those of you not familiar with Baptist theology, they have you pray a particular prayer, known as the "sinner's prayer", where you admit to Jesus you are a sinner and "ask him to come into your heart".

I almost immediately had doubts that I had prayed the prayer correctly (and therefore was not properly "saved") and lived the next few years of my young life in constant fear of either dying and going to hell or being left behind during the "rapture".

Around 8th grade our youth ministry "caught on fire" as they like to say. I was completely caught up in this and by 10th grade I finally re-upped and was "saved" a second time (and baptized again).

At this point I went through several church activities including Bible camps, church 3 times a week, teaching vacation Bible school, evangelizing at school and of course destroying all my evil rock & roll records because they were Satanic then delving into Christian music.

Strangely enough, it wasn't long after I re-upped (around my junior year of high school) that I started having problems with certain things.

First, it was the attitude of my fellow teenaged churchgoers that started to rub me the wrong way. They were literally praying for the souls of particular people they just knew were moving toward the wayward path away from God.

The first real theological thing I started to question was the idea that all non-believers were going to hell.

While I was still in high school I was questioning these things, but doing so privately. By my senior year I was still attending church and Sunday school most every Sunday morning, but the other activities dropped off dramtically. I even realized that rock & roll was fine and began purchasing records again.

I went off to college at Texas A&M at the ripe old age of 17. I started to really question things at this point and my church attendence dropped dramtically. I went to a local Methodist church off and on during my freshman year then kind of stopped going altogether during my sophomore year.

I left school briefly and continued my journey. I went back to A&M a liberal arts major. I actually learned how to think for myself! The piles of reading I did for my major, along with talks with many other students convinced me once and for all that I did not believe in any gods.

I am now in my mid-30's with a wonderful atheist fiancee and a great career in the most exciting city in America.

Once I rejected theism, a great weight was lifted from my shoulders and I became a happy, secure human being.

[Eudaimonist]

Jon wrote: But the biggest blow they received was when I told them I was a libertarian. They haven?t gotten over that one.

I'm a libertarian too. Why was your libertarianism a bigger blow than your atheism? I'd think it would be the reverse. What political views do they have?

[Malcolm]

ExPreacher, Thank you very much for your post. I too would love to read the whole story. You said:
I am still somewhat “in the closet” out of respect for my family, several of whom are quite well known in “the brotherhood.” I also am keeping this from my elderly grandmother, who would be totally devastated.

- this is the biggest problem for me too. I have been through the Baptist mill all my life - my parents are still Baptist missionaries, my father-in-law is a retired Baptist minister, my brother is principal of a theological seminary, I have done most of a degree in theology mysef along with a lot of preaching. I have had little problem in telling my friends of my lack of belief and I have hinted about these things to my family - at least they know that I no longer attend church. But if I were to use the word "atheist" to them, they would be devastated. In some ways I feel like a coward, but at the same time I really do not want to upset them, especially as the older generation are in their late 70's, early 80's and simply would not be able to take it. So I remain as nice and supportive as I can and side-step the question. It does help that we live on different continents!

Regards - Malcolm

[Strelnieks]

Originally posted by Jon:

If I had one year that I like to take back, it would be that one. I have plenty of anecdotes about that place but I’d rather not fill up the Secular Web servers. That year was pivotal for turning me against religiosity.

I would like to hear about this stuff. Maybe write a series of articles or something like "The Altar Boy Chronicles" about your time there. Or at least write a long text to yourself about it and file it for future use. Your memory will fade from year to year.

Strelnieks

[Jon]

Originally posted by Eudaimonia:
I'm a libertarian too. Why was your libertarianism a bigger blow than your atheism? I'd think it would be the reverse. What political views do they have?

Actually I wrote that with a some tongue in my cheek. I don't think they knew anything about libertarian idealogy when I told them my political views. They have the conservative '700 Club' political outlook, namely hawkish, anti-abortion, anti-immigration, pro drug war type mentality. So they were kinda put off that I was none of the above in addition to some other unsavory ideals. But for the most part I think they're fairly naive politically and usually just spout the views of whatever church they attend.

Originally posted by Strielneks:
I would like to hear about this stuff. Maybe write a series of articles or something like "The Altar Boy Chronicles" about your time there. Or at least write a long text to yourself about it and file it for future use. Your memory will fade from year to year.

Hoh boy, that's a tough nut. Are you a BJU aficionado? Yeah it's a strange place. There are no blue and pink sidewalks but it's not far off. Aside from the bad memories, the one good one I have is the pipe organ that played the recessional after every chapel service. I would sit in my seat for an extra five minutes just listening, or more appropriately, vibrating. An amazing experience.

But most of the institutional obsessions had to do with sex, music, popular culture etc. A symphony orchestra was scheduled to play one night and the big controversy was that the orchestra had been censored from playing the theme from 'Star Wars'. The university wanted no association with Hollywood.

They tried to keep their students reigned in as much as possible, even when students were on holiday or summer break. I personally knew some students who were dismissed for participation in un-christian activities while on break. Obviously they had been ratted out by fellow students. It was crazy. That paranoia was constant. I don't see how anyone could go through four years of that place unscathed. You're either brainwashed or psychologically traumatized.

[Julia]

I was "born and raised" in the Mormon church. Took it for granted until the age of 16 when that first "true love" came along. Call me simplistic and shallow, but I initially began doubting my religion because of sex!

Technically, a devout Mormon (male or female) is not supposed have any kind of sex before marriage. Well, I was into all of that big time because I was "in love", and he promised we were going to get married anyway so it was okay, right??

Wrong. After the first pregnancy scare, the guy dumped me for a "worthy and virtuous" (i.e. sexually frigid?) female whom he later married.

So, I was left out in the cold, stunned, shocked, and blaming myself entirely. Having now attained the unenviable staus in the church of "used goods" I had little if any hope of marrying a "worthy male" who could eventually make sure I got into the highest degree of heaven. For a long time, I felt that my only hope was to somehow apologize to this young man for being "such a slut" and get him to take me back and marry me. Who else would want me anyway? I'd have to die an old maid otherwise. I didn't know at the time that I had other options.

For a while, I truly believed I was pond scum, just like my ex told me I was. Oh, he was very happy to use me sexually whenever I'd come crawling back to apologize to him and beg him to take me back. He was equally happy to inform me afterwards that I was trying to drag him down to hell, that I was not worthy to be his wife or bear his children. It was not a pretty scenario. I kept at this for the better part of a year. When I wasn't allowing myself to be abused by this jerk, I was praying to Jeebus to lift the stains of whoredom from my soul...sigh...

My church leaders, whom I foolishly went to for advice, apparently agreed with my ex and threatened to excommunicate me.

Meanwhile, my parents knew nothing of what was going on because, of course, I was not supposed to be having sex at all. I could never talk to them about any of it. I was masquerading as a lily white virgin. I considered the virgin charade almost a matter of life or death. The potential social consequences were too horrible to think about.

Well, because the guy dumped me, I did not have to be excommunicated after all.(No more sex supposedly made me a good girl again, duh!) By then I was 18, and I quickly married the first atheist I could find. I went to church until the day after (!) my wedding, teaching my 3 year old sunday school children like the "good girl" I was supposed to be.

But inside I'd had it with the Mormon church. Back then it was more a matter of me feeling unworthy to remain a member. But over time that feeling evolved into a more logical vision of the stupidity of the whole organization and the people in it. Later on I dumped Christianity in general, and then religion altogether. I can't say it has been psychologically easy to adjust to a life without religion. It has taken over a decade to "deprogram" myself with the help of my kind husband. But I am doing well lately.

The only bad thing I have to put up with these days is that my parents and extended family blame my "bad example" as the reason half or more of my siblings and cousins have since then left the church as well. Also, everyone "fears" for my children, though we are as normal and boring (I think) as anyone else in the world. I can't imagine what harm they think I am causing my children...oh well...life goes on.

[spinner]

I would just like to say how much I appreciate this site in general and the Secular Support topic specifically.


I was born a Mormon and aside from some annoying questions that I would ask my sunday school teachers, I never methodically questioned any of the things I was taught until I was 19(that's forbidden of course). In other ways though, I was never very typical growing up, and since I lived in a small town (about 1200 people) my friends consisted mainly of books and my own thoughts. I really loved mysteries and science fiction. I must have read all of the books relating to these two genres contained in our local library several times over. In retrospect , it is still somewhat surprising how much this affected my ability to be open minded about the realities of religion. In fact although most of the people that I knew "appeared" to have some kind of strong knowledge regarding the truth of Mormonism, I often felt that something must be wrong with me because I didn't have a "testimony". What I did have, fortunately was a father that had been able to battle his way through the quagmire of emotionalism, half truths, outright lies and other deceptive practices that religion carries with it. I still remember clearly a "lesson" he gave to our family one Sunday during Christmas vacation. I was 19 at the time. The question he asked each of us was simple yet profound for someone who had never thought about it before. He asked us to consider what differences, if any, there were between superstition and miracles. I will always remember the moment of clarity that I had as I considered this. It was the single most illuminating experience that I have ever had. In the space of about an hour I came to the realization that I really did not believe the things that I had been taught. I realized that all of the self doubt that I had experienced concerning my lack of "testimony" had nothing to do with me, and that my Bishop and Stake President and other "leaders" had absolutely nothing of relevance to say about how I lived my life. I realized that most of the people that I knew were living a life of lies so intricate that most would never see their way through it.

Anyway, after that the road to atheism was short and painless. I never really looked back (well at least not too often); though I have found it to be quite a pain in the ass to try to deprogram oneself. It always seems to be somewhat of a work in progress.

Eventually "the brethren" saw fit to excommunicate me since our views on sex clashed. I couldn't have been happier over it. Its probably the best thing that those "well meaning" bastards ever did for me although they will never realize it. I think its funny that they thought they were punishing me. I'm sure they would be pissed off if they new how much I appreciated being saved the trouble of asking them to remove my name from their records.

That was 17 years ago, and I still wonder how my life might have been different if I had those first 19 to live over without the influence of religion.

[Marguerite]

Julia and Spinner,

I went through a Mormon phase when I was 16.
I was heavily influenced by a Mormon friend
whom I practically worshipped because she was one of those people who seems to have all the answers - very confident and righteous. She seemed to thrive on being different from most of our peers. I lived in an area mainly influenced by Catholicism, and I was raised Baptist, so I enjoyed being different and didn't mind foisting my religion on others. I had lost some of that confidence in my own faith, so I was in a searching phase when I met this Mormon friend.
Well, I went to church with this friend, swallowed the whole belief system, hook line and sinker, but my parents would not let me offically convert.(They would literally have had to sign me over to the Mormon faith.) Naturally that strengthened my resolve to become a Mormon. Other friends in the church encouraged me and I became deeply indoctrinated for two years. However, by the time I turned 18 and could become a member of the church without my parents' consent, I had started having doubts.(My Mormon friend had moved to Utah and was attending BYU.) At that point other church members were heavily influencing me, and I went through the baptism despite my doubts.
I remember hoping that I would rise from the baptismal waters "freed" from my doubts.
That didn't happen, and I soon separated myself from the Mormons.(So now I'm going straight to hell no matter what!!! :rolleyes: )
I applaud your strength in removing yourselves from what really should be labeled a cult. When I read passages from the Book of Mormon after my deconversion, I was amazed that I had allowed myself to buy in to such bunk!!! But then 16 is an impressionable, seeking age.(I went through another religious phase much more recently,but I'm not sure what my excuse for that is!!!)But you were
raisedto accept the Joseph Smith story as gospel! Such indoctrination is very hard to overcome. I truly admire both of you for your strength of character.

Marguerite

[Jobar]

At age 15, thirty years ago, I threatened my parents that if they continued to force me to go to their Southern Baptist church every Sunday, I would stand up and declare before the whole congregation that I thought they were all deluded. As I was working on my father's dairy farm practically 24/7 they couldn't throw me out, so I was allowed to stay home (and usually sleep.)

I think that, like turtonm, I was saved from a life of superstition by science fiction. (I have read Harrison's Deathworld Trilogy, and Clarke's "The Star", and practically everything by Harlan Ellison. And very many more.) Reading the Bible (the only thing which was allowed other than listening to boring sermons) was also a big boost toward unbelief.

As I grow older I grow ever more satisfied with the answers of philosophy, and more disgusted/amused/angry at those who accept theology unquestioned. My family no longer argues with me, and I have stopped challenging their superstitions at every opportunity- unless they start trying to preach. That's mighty seldom now.

I am delighted and uplifted to hear the stories of those here who overcame even more powerful indoctrination than what I had to struggle against.

[Jewel]

Originally posted by Jobar:
As I grow older I grow ever more satisfied with the answers of philosophy, and more disgusted/amused/angry at those who accept theology unquestioned. My family no longer argues with me, and I have stopped challenging their superstitions at every opportunity- unless they start trying to preach. That's mighty seldom now.


This is pretty much where I am these days. I am quite satisfied with the answers science has given us and I find the universe even more beautiful as a result. My family seldom argues with me anymore and as long as they stay off the subject I'm more than willing to let their superstitions go unchallenged.

-jewel

[Born Free]

This is a shock reading through this I could have sworn I put my own bit in...never mind I'm doing it now.

I was born and baptised into the Roman Catholic Church, had the works and had serious doubts at around age 10 or so. Was fed all kinds of religious claptrap including the mysterious 3 dark days,I was also forced to join the "blue army" at the age of about 11, a bunch of extremes wearing brown cloth scapulars and saying the rosary everyday to pray for the collapse of communisim.....Everything was always a guilt trip, there was always pressure from mum and she got worse whenever her family were around (irish). I haven't practised for at least 20 years, I'm atheist and funnily enough so are my siblings, all 3 of us rejected the faith out of sheer common sense I guess. I will never ever practise religion again of any type, I was born again alright into a life of freedom. :)

[MarkT]

My story's pretty boring.

I grew up in a largely secular household.
We celebrated Christmas, but mostly after the German, somewhat pagan tradition. The only real religious elements were (1) a Bible reading of the birth of Christ, and (2) angel figurines. My parents are Theosophists (http://www.theosophical.org/)).

Other childhood religious influences mostly had negative impacts on how I felt about organized religion. I went to a summer music camp, where on Sundays we had to sing at the local church. The services were invariably boring, and the preacher was often the butt of jokes at camp.

I read a fair amount of the Bible at one point, mostly out of curiousity. It read like weird fairy tales to me.

I've had a few people witness at me, or try to. They usually have no idea what they're in for when I feel like engaging them. :D This does not happen often, since I usually have better things to do with my life, like answer phone calls from telemarketers.

[southernhybrid]

From born again fundie upbringing to liberal Xtian to searcher for truth in the Eastern religions to Bahai to agnostic to atheist. One day after all those years of dealing with all that emotional baggage, and looking so hard for answers, ironically, the bible phrase, "the truth shall set you free" popped into my head, and I knew that I was an atheist. I've been enjoying that freedom for about thirty years. It's nice to read so many of your stories.

[Clarice]

I know I've told versions of my story before, but since we're collecting them . . .

I was raised Catholic, but it was a certain brand of laid-back Northeastern U.S. Catholicism where we went to church every Sunday because, well, that's what you do, but the religion had little impact on daily life. Still, I questioned a lot of the dogma, and had basically rejected the core teachings of the Church early on. I did still seriously believe in God and Jesus, though; it never occurred to me that there might not be a God.

When I was about 16, my mother started having serious doubts, and we kind of hauled our problems with Catholicism out into the light. We once tried going to a local protestant church, but pretty much came to the conclusion, "Same bullshit, different building."

Somewhere along the way, I lost belief in Jesus as divine, but still believed in some kind of God out there. I looked into various religions, and kind of liked Wicca, but just couldn't buy the magic(k) thing.

Maybe it's because my parents were always honest with me and explained as much as they could (I never believed in Santa, and rarely heard, "because I'm your mother, that's why!"), or because my dad is pretty scientifically-minded, or maybe it's just something inherent, but I've always had a skeptical bent.

Long about 1999, I got into skepticism online, especially urban legends, but also general stuff - aliens, ghosts, psi, etc. I sharpened my skeptical thinking, and learned what it takes to "prove" a claim.

Then I realized something terrifying - if I applied that reasoning to God, there was no good reason to believe. I shied from that at first, but quickly accepted that I couldn't lie to myself and wall off one area of my life as exempt from skepticism. I grudgingly acknowledged I was an atheist.

Luckily, through sites like this, and some deep thinking, I found disbelief to be incredibly freeing and joyful. Now, in addition to being an atheist, I'm a secular humanist and scientific pantheist, and I've gotten my mom into SP, too. She says she still believes in "the force," (her words, LOL) but she's effectively an atheist, if not a total materialist.

My dad continues to go to church, and not even Mom knows what he believes, really. However, while reading Sagan on reductionism (in The Demon Haunted World), I recalled my father telling me, "Everything is physics." Now explain to me how someone can be a reductionist and a Catholic! I think he goes out of habit and tradition.

My husband is a little weirded out by my atheism. He's kind of a deist/apatheist. The other day, he said he accepted that I was "practically an atheist," and I had to inform him there was no "practically" about it! He's a bit in denial. But really, it is not an issue in our daily lives, and I come here to talk to you guys about that kind of stuff, so everything works well.

[Captain Pedantic]

I've only recently (in the last few months or so) admitted to myself that I don't actually believe in a "god" of any kind.

For years, I've been calling myself "agnostic" and later "technically agnostic". Not because I have any kind of a fear of being percieved as an atheist, but simply because I just didn't know what I thought about stuff.

I'm lucky to live in a family and community which places no special value on religion. My mother is probably agnostic, although hates putting any kind of a label on herself, and is definitely against organised religion. My father is very vague about religion, as he is about most things, and my stepfather is definitely an atheist.

I did go through periods of claiming to believe in God, but it never really came to anything. I don't believe I've ever been to church just for the service, although I have been for special harvest/Christmas/Easter festivals I had to go to in primary school, and the last time I went was to go to my cousin's wedding in 1996.

I have also said before, and I stand by this, that I think it would be nice to be able to believe. Not because I want to be "saved", but because it would, in my opinion, be nice to be certain that there was a benevolent force up there who would do anything to help me. However, events in my life, and things I've seen have convinced me that I would be deluding myself if I told myself that.

[windsofchange]

For about 7 years I had been in the habit of going to Mass every day, NO MATTER WHAT. Then two years ago, I went to Wyoming for two weeks, to attend a family wedding. Not a whole lot of Catholic churches in the wilds of Wyoming! So it was kinda like I got shaken out of my rut.

Plus since there aren't a whole lot of libraries and bookstores there either, I had to read what I could get and wound up reading one of the "forbidden" authors, Andrew Greeley (a rather radical Catholic priest).

And as most of you will agree, once you start thinking "out of the box" it's just a matter of time! So here I am two years later - Atheist Gal!

However, I must say, contrary to what others have said, I never had any bad experiences with Christians as people. Most of the Christians (both Catholics and Protestants) I have known in my life were normal, nice people that were fun to be around and didn't make a major issue about religion. So for me, that was never a problem. Just lucky, I guess! :rolleyes:

[Bloop]

My story is so not dramatic. Sweden is so different from the US when it comes to religion. Ronald Reagan and the likes are considered utter right-wing religious wackos here by most. The church(es) have very little influence on anything.

Personally I was born into what best is described as an a-religious family. There never really was any discussion on the topic ever until I got interested myself. I am not even baptized which most swedes sees as a nice little opportunity to throw a party.

Some of my relatives (on my fathers side) are members of the Jehova's Witnesses. The point where I must have turned atheist was when my father and I were invited to a JW wedding. I was somewhere around 8-9 years old. Saying grace scared me shitless to say the least. This I had never encountered before and it seemed mighty strange to me that adults could behave in this way. I felt like there was some sort of weird fake theatre going on. Not much but it was enough to estrange me from anything remotly religious from then on.

Later I have read a few books, taken some religion classes and explored the Internet. This has only strengthened my then very childish version of atheism.

Even though living is Sweden is a silly matter as an professed agnostic or atheist my teacher in 12th grade religion class was as sprung from some backwater Kansas school. She refused one class to study the other world religions (other than X-tianity) because as she put it "Christianity is the only TRUE religion". The nationwide curriculum standards was of no concern to her apparently. Later I think she got a reprimand for this.

[Kachana]

I've attended boarding school in England since I was 7, and this involved going to chapel to pray and sing psalms every day (have you ever heard quite how dull a psalm is). This forced worship continued with some of the most antiquated and dull services imaginable at Eton college.

I remember being a firm C of E Christian at 12 (I was confirmed), and then when I next checked at about 15 I discovered I was an atheist. I think the sheer boredom of the services and the failure of the embodiment of Love and Truth itself to have any emotional impact on me whatsoever led to this implicit relinquishing of my faith.

Since then, I've got interested in the psychological processes of belief, and the scientific and philosophical questions that are linked to religion, mainly through coming to this site. This has confirmed my disbelief in God.

[Loki]

I wish I could claim a great epiphany thad suddenly clarified everything and I knew for sure i was an atheist, but I can't. I was raised Catholic for a few years, long enough to trouble me as I was losing faith. I think part of it was that I never had a solid core of beliefs defined. I gradually came to the conclusion that christianity was just another religion, and I think it was because I didn't understand why a loving god would condemn most of the world's population to eternal torture because they were born in the wrong part of the world. Religion is primarily geographic, and societies have specific religions which help define their culture. I didn't think it was fair that we claimed ours, and a relative late comer at that, was the only right one.

Then I thought about Heaven and Hell. I really thought about it, and came to the conclusion that such places are just absurd.

Then I though about a grand puppeteer controlling every last detail and listening to prayers in the various languages of earthlings. And that was absurd, too. Any reason for existence because of a god seems absurd to because 1. who made god? and 2. it just spontaneously decides to make existence?

The bible is just another set of scriptures; I think I realized that I could never believe any literature that mankind spontaneously generates to be the absolute, unchanging truth, and that the Bible could not possibly be infallible, and therefore how are we to know where the myth ends and the history begins, or what is lies or mistaken testimony and what is real?

6 days... yeah.

Um, that's not very clear, but it makes sense in my head.

[MadMordigan]

Um, that's not very clear, but it makes sense in my head.

Welcome to the II.

While never having been a theist, your arguments are precisely the ones that make it hard for me to take the xian faith seriously. Every time I hear what starts out to be a rational arguement for the belief in god, xians will pull out some old canard about getting into heaven. I'm usually too busy laughing to hear anything else.

Remember, it doesn't need to be very clear at all in order to be more reasonable than the xian worldview.

[windsofchange]

What really annoys me about telling theists the long, deep, heartfelt experiences which led to my finally becoming an atheist, they will listen sympathetically, then say they understand, THEN tell me it's because I was in the "wrong church"!

i.e., I was a Catholic, and therefore, naturally, I was misled by "religion" and didn't have a true "relationship" with God.

Gimme a break! Anyone who's been a Catholic knows they're just as into the "relationship" idea as Protestants are. They use different terminology and different ways of getting there, but the bottom line is still the same - you're still supposed to have an intimate relationship with a personal God.

When I realized I could no longer accept the doctrines of Catholicism, I *did* look seriously at other "brands" of Christianity, and some of them certainly were "better" in some ways, but sooner or later they all come down to the same bottom line - a relationship with God.

And I finally realized the problem for me was that I just didn't believe in God. The fact that when I first started realizing that, I was a Catholic, is completely irrelevant, IMHO.

But even now, I bet some devout Christian is reading this and thinking, "Gee, if she'd only come to MY Church!"

[Jewel]

Originally posted by atheistgal:
What really annoys me about telling theists the long, deep, heartfelt experiences which led to my finally becoming an atheist, they will listen sympathetically, then say they understand, THEN tell me it's because I was in the "wrong church"!



Tell me about it. I've gotten that a lot too. But I wasn't raised Catholic. I was raised Southern Baptist. But the different Protestant sects don't get along either. Actually, from what I can tell, they loathe one another. They can't seem to agree on much other than the rest of us are going to Hell (a preferable place to spend eternity, IMHO, than hanging around with the sheep until the end of time...).


I have yet to get a coherant answer out of a theist as to why they believe in God. My mom answers with things like "how can you look at a flower and not believe in God". My sister: "demons try to kill me in my sleep!" :rolleyes: They also tell me that the only way to happiness is through God. Hmmm, then I wonder why they are so miserable...

-jewel

[sevkeifert]

Originally posted by jewelc:


[RANT]
Tell me about it. I've gotten that a lot too. But I wasn't raised Catholic. I was raised Southern Baptist. But the different Protestant sects don't get along either.

Southern Baptist is probably one of the most hate-filled, intolerant, prejudiced, fearful, and ignorant religions ever. (I was raised Southern Baptist as well, unfortunately) The members in the church can hardly get along with each other.

Here's a story about love: Once a black family came to the church. Someone confronted them in the parking lot and they were asked to leave. There are all-black-Baptist churches and all-white-Baptist churches. Ooooh, can you feel the love?

In my first sunday school class, one of the students was physically abused. The teacher shook an unruly boy, and the boy's head smacked into the wall repeatedly. How brilliant! Dull the boy's reasoning skills and he will become a better Christian!

When I was about 5 years old, I remember thinking "I HATE this stupid place." The preacher couldn't/wouldn't give straight answers to my questions. My family was naturally horrified when I came up with the pallendrom: "God is I [a] dog." Usually, my questions were answered with "You'll understand when you get older." And that was true. When I was about 17, I realized that those Christians were morons.

[fando]

My parents were atheists, but they never told me what to believe as far as religion is concerned. They let me figure it out for myself, and the end result is that I'm technically agnostic, but spiritually atheist. That is, I can't honestly say whether or not God exists but I usually behave like God doesn't. :)

[emotional]

I haven't written a formal, orderly testimony of my journey from unbelief to belief in the impossible to the belief of unbelief, but I have an article which sums it up pretty well: Positively Heathen (http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/heathenpos.html).

[Tabris]

Testimony, hmm.... well....

I was born into a casually-religious family. You know, the go to church on Easter and Christmas types. For most of the earliest years of my life, I was exposed to religion but it was not an important part of my life.

A while later, when I was an adolescent, my family "converted" such as it was to what I call Fundamentalism Lite--the same general belief system, but not as extreme as many fundies. I went along with this as the part of least resistance. I mostly attempted to convince myself that all this stuff was real, and I managed for a week here and there, but most of the time I just ignored religion and played along.

Around when I was fifteen, I finally started looking honestly at my "beliefs", I realized I didn't actually believe any of them. Whoops! :cool: I immediately converted to agnosticism.

Over the next two or three years I remained heavily agnostic, shifting gradually towards Weak Atheism by the end of that period and the beginning of the fourth year.

The summer after I turned eighteen, I went out of town for the summer, and lived for a couple months with two previously internet-only friends who were both atheists. After spending that much time away from my family--no religious radio stations, no church every Sunday--my current beliefs solidified into a Strong Atheist position.

Upon returning home, my newfound confidence in atheism has caused a bit of friction, but I've mostly kept my mouth shut. In a year I'll be out of the house anyhow, so in the meantime I just keep quiet and go to church and all that. :(

At this point, I'm mostly looking forward to being away, on my own, so I don't have to put up with church and I can buy lots of cool stuff from evolvefish.com. :D

[scrumpy]

I think I've had it pretty easy. I haven't really had a journey at all.

I was born into a fairly non-religious family. Sometimes we went to church on christian holidays to humour my paternal grandmother, and did the usual wedding/funeral church thing, but that's about it. When I was 13 I went to Sunday School for a few weeks with one of my protestant christian girlfriends, but I asked too many questions and was gently advised not to return. I remember being fascinated by bible stories for a year or so around the same age, but never from the point of view of belief - it was almost kind of a morbid fascination with the disgusting nature of most of it.

I think I was about 15 when I first used the word atheist to describe myself. I got next to no reaction from my parents (I think they would probably be classified as deists), sister (atheist) and maternal grandmother (agnostic). My paternal grandmother just thought I'd grow out of it (30 years later, I think she's given up on that thought). My friends couldn't have cared less for the most part (only in adulthood when my best friend converted from catholisism to evangelical christianity did it become an issue).

When I was 18 I dated a baptist boy and went to church with him on sundays (otherwise his parents wouldn't let him see me and he was more important to me than my principles :D ) I was revolted when I watched a baptism - I saw it as nothing more than a wet t-shirt contest. Even he wasn't worth that. Eventually married another atheist. His parents, while living, were extremely religious but very loving and accepting. My husband's sister is much the same way.

I find as I get older, I am less and less shy about expressing my atheism. At work I'm referred to (with some affection I hope) as the "office atheist". But even at work there are at least 6 of us in an office of 30, so that's a pretty easy ratio to live with.

It's only been in the last few years that I have sought writings and formal discussions of atheism. I wish I known earlier in my life just how many of us there were and how much was in writing. Even though I think I've had it easier than most, I have often felt isolated in my atheism.

[ October 04, 2001: Message edited by: scrumpy ]

[Cipher Girl]

This is my first post here. I've been a long time lurker though. My story is almost identical to Scrumpy's. I grew up in a fairly non-religious home in the Deep South. Lucky I guess.

My parents very very nominal Christians who thought that everyone should be free to believe or not in anything. They divorced after 12 years of marriage. Its sad now but they've changed so much. My mother is now hooked on angels and reads the "Left Behind" Series faithfully. My father was sucked into Alcohol Anonomous about 3 years ago.

My closest sister and my brother are fairly non-religious (either deist or nominally Christian) an another sister has decided to become Catholic (and she's the one who went wild in high school). Its nice that we siblings don't place much importance on religion at all.

I thank my parents that I was allowed to grow up in a non-religious environment. We didn't even have to to to church at all. Lucky me. I've always had a philosophical bent however , even as a child. When I was about 12 years old, our neighbors, Church of God members asked me if I wanted to go to vacation bible school. I was curious so I said yes.

The first year I went, I lasted the whole week, and had a lot of fun asking questions that they seemed unable to answer in a straight-forward manner. The second year I went, I was asked to leave after 3 days. I think it was because I was encouraging the other kids to questions also.

From there I went slowly into atheism with a short stint in Wicca, and back to atheism. I've not had too much trouble with others, but then again I don't always use the A word. It depends on the people around me. Perhaps I'm a coward, but around some people I simply use "non-religious" or "extremely agnostic". It makes social situations go much easier.

My husband is more of a deist. He was raised Catholic but thinks that common sense prevails over any dogma or scripture. We get along great. :)

I live in Fundyville, USA (Colorado Springs, CO). Moved here about 2 years ago. I lived here about 10 years ago, thanks to Uncle Sam. It was crazy here at that time with all of the whackos moving in. They have somewhat mellowed or else they control the news, as I haven't heard o anything crazy in some months.

[JohnR]

My conversion had nothing to do with any ill tempered believers or any of that. I was in my second year of Catholic high school and working my way throgh the OT when a idea hit me. This is all bullshit I said to myself. I was supposed to be confirmed that year and did not go through with it. Broke mom's heart. Dad gave me a Book of Mormon and said read this if you don't believe the bible. Well that really convinced me it was all crap. I though that this diety had multiple personality disorder cause he had no idea who he was. Monster, loving father, bounty hunter all around asshole. Anyway I stopped believing and started thinking and never looked back.

[Sagarmatha]

I was raised quite unreligiously by my family, as none of my parents are very religous. My dad is quite religious though and used to talk sometimes about god to me. Mom is not an atheist, but does not care about religion in general, except to practice the old Chinese culture.

I myself have never been able to believe in any god, though I really wanted to as I was afraid of the punishments for the unbelievers.

My atheism does not have any reason or cause. It's simply always been a part of me. I just cannot believe in any supernatural things, no matter how religous the society was where I lived.
Indonesian society is very religious and superstitious.
It often maddens me how people prefer to use easy superstitious 'explanations' than to think logically. I guess because thinking and analyzing things logically takes a lot of efforts. It's always comfortable to say: "It must be the ghost's doing!"

It is for me quite annoying that a lot of theists keep on asking me again and again: "How did you CHOOSE to be an atheist? Are you so dissappointed in your religion?"
How many times do I have to tell them that I did not CHOOSE to be an atheist? I think one cannot choose to believe something: you either believe it or not, depends on how you analyze it.
While being given some 'proves' of the existence of god, I simply analyze them in a different way than the theists. I just cannot accept one possible explanation without searching for other possibilities first.
So, it all depends one's way of reasoning or thinking.

But then I went to christian schools and that was the beginning of my misery. I was forced to go to the church, contemplation, or to pray. When I refused I was told that they were going to expel me, which would've been a great scandal to my parents. So I conceded, as I did not want to trouble my parents.
I was also afraid to be seen as a communist, as in Indonesia atheism is always associated to communism (which is seen as something very terrible, especially during Suharto's regime). So, I had to conceal my atheism.

I was baptized as a catholic when I was 12 years old (before I was buddhist), as I had to go to a very well-known catholic school (when you're baptized it's easier for you to enter that school).

[critical thinking made ez]

I was brainwashed at an early age and was saved from hell just 9 years after arriving on earth. By age 16, I had down the New Testament pretty well, having read it several times; I was a True Believer. I knew for sure Jesus was coming back any day and I was going to be ready. By my first year in College, Jesus had his return still on Hold. It didn’t make sense anymore. I started to question. My mother told me she thought he was to return since back in the 50's when she was a young girl too. That didn't help my true belief.

In my 1st year college History Class I did my term paper on the Salem Witch Trials. That was pretty much it for me and religion. It was over big time. Later, events forced me into questioning my non-belief because I forgot some of the basics that got me there. So I decided to read the Old Testament cover to cover to see if I had missed anything. After that, I knew for sure there was no Christian God and most likely no God at all. No God could have done those horrible things nor had the mess up in writing context that the Old Testament demonstrates.

I had now became an agnostic / Deist and only a Christian when her tits were really nice. Sad but true.

Many things through life always pointed toward the mistakes and errors, for example: My hobby was Magic Tricks/Mentalism and I realized how easy the masses could be fooled. How they WANT to believe. How they are so disappointed when they discover how a trick is done. The psychology of it is very revealing. Basic magic set-ups are much the same set-up that Jesus and other characters used.

At age 30 I married, not for tits but for love. Although I had read many atheist type books, the inspiration didn’t come into it as much until I read Robert Ingersol’s “The Gods.” I gave that booklet to my wife to read and she too went from being a deist to a confirmed atheist, along with some coaching from her true love.

We raised our son in the same new light and today have a wonderful and strong son because of it. I came to find this site and although have been on many other sites consider this to be the BEST infidel site of all. I also like the community and it’s size. It fits perfect with my free time.

[Jebus]

I've only recently been able to consider myself a "pure" atheist. It took a long time to ween myself off the religious drug.

I was raised in a non-religious family but a few years ago, at a particularly low point in my life when I searching for answers to the "big questions of life", I naively embraced Christianity. I have always been a strong critic of organized religion, so it's hard for me to admit I made this mistake. But you live and learn, as it's been said. I gave it a shot. I went along with the whole show. I should've known it wouldn't work out because my skeptical mind was asking questions from the start. I immediately knew it was nonsense that was being taught but I think I just wanted it to be the answer to my questions so badly that I silenced my critical mind.

It wasn't until I encountered the arguments against organized Chrisitianity that I realized I had made a serious error. You see, prior to becoming a Christian, I had never read much about religion. I knew almost instinctively that it was all ancient nonsense. I didn't need to read about it. It was less than a year into it, when I began to have serious doubts and slowly walked away from Christianity. I made the all too common trip from some form of mainstream Christianity to liberal Christianity to is one of the other religions the right religion to maybe I'm a deist to agnostic to atheist.

I started searching for other answers and slowly I was finding them, and I'm still finding them. I started to emerge from my low point and realized that my need for organized nonsense diminished as my inner strength increased. Can you say emotional crutch?

I still have some anger over having allowed myself to be involved in Christianity. On the positive side though, I'm glad I made the trip because it set me on a serious quest for knowledge and truth.

[pepperlandgirl]

I was born and raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon Church.) I lived in Utah, and it wasn't just a religion, it was a way of life. There was one non-Mormon in my entire school.
When I was 14, I got Religion in a big way. My parents were never that active, and I didn't go to church often, but I started going to seminary, attending church, reading my scriptures, praying, on a regular basis. That really lasted for about 18 months. Then I calmed down...but things were different.
I stopped going to church, I thought it was just out of laziness. Now I realize that I didn't go to church because some part of me already thought it was so much crap.
Well, the years went by, and with each passing week I'd seperate myself more and more from the church. I found myself participating on MBs, and inevitably somebody would post criticism re: religion, and once in awhile, they would specifically target the Mormon Church. I took this very personally. It would almost make me physcially ill.
It took me quite awhile to realize that I wasn't getting upset over what they had to say, I was getting upset because I agreed with them.
One day I was listening to a Sting CD and "All This Time" started playing. I listened to the lyrics, and one of them caught my attention. "Father, if Jesus exists then how come he never lived here?" But I realized the whole song really reflected my feelings. "They prayed to Gods but their stone Gods did not make a sound, and their empire crumbled till all was left were stones the workmen found."

I was talking to my sister and I asked her about sin. The more she talked, the more I realized there were holes in her logic. Either sin is a test designed by God, or sin exists independently of God, and he can't abide in it. If it's the first case, why does anybody need Jesus when God could simply destroy it completely? If it's the second case, that implies that God didnt' create everything, and therefore, isn't God.

I also get annoyed when I explain what I"m going through and people respond, "Well the Mormon church is messed up. Maybe you just need to find the real God."
No, sorry, that's not the case at all.I think God (in all forms) is a fairy tale. If I were to believe in fairy tales, I would continue to be a Mormon. I like their particular stories.

[Curtis]

After browsing through this marvelous collection of tales, I feel like sharing my story (a feeling influenced by exhaustion, no doubt) before I return to the constructive activity of porn browsing.

Compared to the harrowing situations many of my fellow unbelievers have experienced, my little thread of life seems meager. Nonetheless, here's a summary of my religious journey.

My parents were unreligious. My father was an agnostic with pantheistic leanings, while my mother was influenced by spiritualistic trends while opposed to organized religion. Since my relatives were attached to fundamentalist beliefs, I quickly became aquainted with the concept of God.

(Authorial aside : One time, I had a map of many galaxies in the universe. Puzzled, I asked the question : "Where is God?" My father began to explain the concept of God being everywhere at once. As a child, I had a hard time understanding this concept, and this confusion must have shown on my face. Therefore, my mother pointed at a random galaxy and said "There." And I was content.)

Through my cousin, who went through a period of evangelical behavior, I learned the specifics of the Christian paradigm. Being a child, I swallowed the teachings with little reservation.

(2nd Authorial aside : When my cousin explained the nature of the Devil, and how he wanted to drag every human soul to hell, I expressed anger and said I wanted to punch Satan in the nose. She said that praying to Jesus was just like punching Satan where it hurt. This idea didn't really satisfy me.)

(3rd Authorial aside : My cousin dropped this evangelical behavior, joined the Navy, found out she was gay, and deeply troubles her religious mother with her wild behavior. I like talking to my cousin. Probably because she finds me to be very funny and often laughs at my quips, which will earn you points in my book.)

I became increasingly worried about the prospect of roasting forever in hell, and as a child, this idea did not give me the feeling of security I craved. One time, the mere thought of almost certainly being doomed to hell reduced me to tears. This caused my mom to grow furious, and forbid my cousin to subject me to any further 'instructon'. Perhaps this planted the seed of doubt in my mind. Thinking back, my heart warms at the care my mother showed me in wanting to spare me the pain of contemplating the horror of hell. Next time I see her, I'll give her a hug for that.

Over the years (from age 9-15), I wavered between enthusiasm for Christianity, and skepticism of its claims. A factor contributing to the skepticism was doubtlessly my enjoyment of fantasy novels, many which portrayed godlike beings as being fallible. Eventually, my enthusiasm for Christianity waned as I began to dismiss the idea of hell, account for the existence of other religions, and doubt the existence of God itself.

I soon flowed into a loose agnostic/atheist stance around 15.

(4rd Authorial aside : Sophomore in high school, in theater class. Girl approaches. "Do you want to learn about the Book of Mormon?!" "... huh?" "The Book of Mormon!" She thrusts the book towards me. "Uh... no, not really. Go that way." I vaguely point in some direction. I'm not quite sure how that situation was resolved, but suffice to say - I have not converted to Mormonism.)

When I finally got on the Internet when 16 years old, I happened to locate the writings of Bertrand Russell. His criticism of theological beliefs, and his often hilarious lampoons of the odd behavior of the pious finally caused me to shift my stance from loose unbelief to firm atheism at 17.

(5th Authorial aside : My mother was deeply worried when I announced my atheism to her. Not because she was disturbed about my imminent damnation, but because she was worried about the culture of religiousness that flows like an undercurrent through American life, and that swimming against this undercurrent could wash me away, especially while living in a rural town in Texas. However, since I have yet to bomb Sunday school, or brazenly paint 'GOD IS DOG' on the walls of the local church, I am in no immediate danger of being washed away by the religious tide.)

I am writing to you now as a shy 20 year old, still a firm atheist, who believes that secular philosophies and the scentific method can and have contributed enormously to human progress, and will continue to blossom and expand the luminous possibilities in our lives.

To those who have read this all the way through, I thank you for sharing this with me.

[HeatherD]

Originally posted by dogwood:
What brought you to athiesm? Are you a former Christian? Jew? Buddhist? Zoroastrian? Or were you brought up among free-thinkers? What was the "last straw" for you? What brought you over to the light side?

There really wasn't a last straw, unless you include my mother forcing me at 17 to go through confirmation. It was confirmation or out on the street, how christian of her.

My mother was a superstitious ultra-religious catholic. Luckily she now sits in a hospital bed with advanced alzheimer's.

What started me along the rode to freeing my mind was a death. I was quite young and had just gone through communion. I really loved my parish priest, he was a great man and at the time I felt quite close to my religion, mostly because of him. Sunday school was primarily about jesus and love, very little had to do with more complex concepts.

Two weeks after communion a thief (or thieves) broke into the church and stole the gold chalice cup. The priest caught them and was mugged. He died from a head injury. Even some 30 years later it's still painful.

For a long time I guess I thought about that incident and really had a hard time dealing with the idea that god would take someone who I loved and also 'worked' for him.

That started me on the rode to freedom from religion. I'd also say that my love of science helped open my mind. There are times when I wish I could believe, some people seem to find comfort in the myths.

My mother told me years ago that something horrible would happen to me, something god had planned for me. She felt that this would bring me back to god.

So far plenty of really tough times have found me, so far I have never found comfort in lying to myself. Like Carl Sagan, I would rather know than believe.

[Howay the Toon]

Most of the posts so far are from people brought up within Christianity and then rejecting. Some of the few who were not have expressed their feeling of surprise to discover that other people actually took this religion stuff seriously.

This was my experience, when small I would hear Bible stories, Greek and Roman mythology (The Headmaster of my Primary School was a Homer and Virgil buff) and fairy tales without really differentiating. They were all good yarns.

I was about 9 or 10 when I actually realised that lots of people actually BELIEVED IN all this bible and god stuff and I found it puzzling. I couldn't figure out why apparently bright and responsible adults took it seriously. I've never been really able to come to terms with the fact that otherwise intelligent people accept religion. It just seems bizarre.

[babelfish]

It is so good to know that there are atheists among us who were raised as non-believers. Although all the stories of people coming to their senses after a lifetime of indoctrination into fundamentalism are heartening, I always wonder what the future holds for my children. Will they continue to be skeptical seekers of knowledge, or will they succumb to the insidious religious culture in America? (BTW, I think it's funny how the fundies love to speak disparagingly about the evil "secular media," when on my television and in my glossy magazines I regularly run across people who credit their "faith" with helping them get through hard times.)

Anyway, even though I personally was raised a strict Catholic and spent many years after attending college as an agnostic, in the last few years I finally have found the courage to admit that I am an atheist. My wish for my children as they grow into adulthood is that they will feel comfortable sharing their spiritual journey with me, no matter where it takes them (gulp!)

[St. Paul MN Atheist]

I've been lurking off and on in the II discussion forum for a year or so. This is my very first post.

My parents are non-practicing Catholics. When I was a small child we did attend mass somewhat regularly, but that ended by the time I was about 10 years old.

When I was a freshman in high school, my mother was invited to attend services at an independent Baptist church by a woman withwhom my mother worked. My mother, three sisters and I attended for a couple of Sundays. After that, my mother and sisters did not return, but I continued going.

I was quiet and lacked self-confidence and didn't have many friends at school. At Sunday school and the Thursday night youth group meetings, I found kids who seemed to like me. It wasn't long before I bought the theology hook, line, and sinker and immersed myself in the life of the church.

I 'accepted Christ' at a Fellowship of Christian Athletes meeting. When I asked my parents if I could be baptised, my father said absolutely not. Although my parents had not been to Mass in years, they had me baptised in the Catholic church soon after birth and my father insisted that 'that was good enough.' I asked again when I turned 16 and my parents relented knowing that it meant a great deal to me.

While there were some positive aspects to the Christian experience--I had friends and didn't get involved in drug or alcohol abuse--I also suffered damage from being a Christian.

I lost out on a number of potential friendships because I developed a common holier-than-thou attitude towards non-Christians. Of course, there was the standard unnecessary guilt caused by my church's ridiculous condemnation of maturbation.

Most significantly was the conflict between my growing realization that I