how do I tell my kid?

[reddhedd]

I have a small issue in my home right now. My older kids are ok with atheism, but my little one listened too well when I believed, plus we have a lot of theists in my neighborhood. They tell him all about God, and he comes home very confused. I've explained to him that I was wrong. I thought I knew the truth, but now I know otherwise. He acts like he understands, but then an hour later, he'll tell someone that god made fire, or that god will help him not be scared of the dark.
Is this normal, is it ok, what do I do? He seems to need something larger than himself, and I understand that, but what do I tell him? ( and yes, he has his own flashlight!:) )
He is 5yo, BTW.
K.

[Viti]

Well, why don't you show him how fire is made, and take him around your dark house to show him there is nothing to be afraid of. Maybe take him to the store to pick up some of those touch-tap lights to place stretegically around his room. He needs to learn he (and hence we as humans) can somewhat control his environment and there is no need for God.

Learning about the real, natural world at an early age ensured the whole God concept never "took" with me. My parents did experiements with me and asked probing questions to help me come to my own conclusions and promote critical thinking..."What is it about the dark that scares you, why do you think there are monnsters?" etc

[reddhedd]

Your suggestions are good. My biggest concern, I guess, is that prior to my coming out to my family, he didn't have those fears, and didn't talk about God hardly ever. Now, it's a several times daily sort of thing.
I feel like I did something bad, like I took away a coping mechanism that I had no idea he relied upon so strongly.
Maybe I should just let him pray? I mean, it's not hurting him, right? but, it does comfort him.:confused:
K.

[Viti]

That's up to you...I am not a parent...just an Auntie. It seems to me that helping him confront his fears head on in reality would be better in the long run. If he runs to invisible Sky Daddy for protection now, how is he going to learn that the "bump in the night" has a naturalistic explanation and isn't a ghost?

My 5 year old niece has an invisible sister named Out who wears rocket shoes and lives behind the moon and used to have imaginary friends called the Balance Speeners that would fix broken things in the middle of the night "because they have every tool ever made".

Kids employ magical thinking at that age...we play along with it, but when confronted she will actually wink and say "It's all real in my imagination Auntie Brandi"...maybe God is not more than an imaginary friend to him.

[yguy]

Originally posted by reddhedd
Is this normal, is it ok, what do I do?

I would suggest you tell him what you think without pressuring him to think as you do. Let him figure things out for himself.

[Roland98]

Sounds normal to me. I guess I wouldn't stress over it too much at that age--at some point, he can realize that God is about the same as the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. My fundie FIL takes my daughter (3 1/2) to church, and she comes home with Jesus tales and such. It doesn't bother me too much now, and it's absolutely fine with me for her to learn about the Bible--I'm just counting on being able to teach enough critical thinking skills for her to not get sucked into the "truth" of it all.

I think LadyShea's idea is a great one--keep him immersed in discussions of the natural world, and show him how things work without God. We have a great Center for Science and Industry in my town--all kinds of hands-on experiments and demonstrations for kids to get them interested in science. We take the kids there at least once a month. You may want to check into something like that in your area.

[Jennie]

My five year old says that, "God did it!" when confronted with the toys he broke or other naughty thing. He also comes up with some wild stories about imaginary things and pretends made up words mean something in Norse or Russian or whatever the nationality of the day is. Kids this age have the most vivid imaginations. I'd say that teaching them about the natural world and how we control it is wonderful, but also playfully introduce fairy tales and mythology of all types.

Good luck!

[Undercurrent]

Originally posted by Jennie
My five year old says that, "God did it!" when confronted with the toys he broke or other naughty thing.

My nephew always used to say, "That's not safe!" when he meant to say "Stop doing that!" because he knew that adults always said that to him when they wanted him to stop doing something (like playing with kitchen knives or sticking his fingers in electrical outlets.)

So your five-year-old must be very bright to realize that adults say "God did it!" when they mean "Please don't believe the obvious rational explanation that is uncomfortable to me!" :)

Reddhedd : IMO, you've got nothing to worry about. Five-year-olds aren't supposed to be very reality-oriented. :) There are probably tonnes of fantasies he holds that you know aren't true, but are sure he'll grow out of.

[Viti]

My five year old says that, "God did it!" when confronted with the toys he broke or other naughty thing. My niece says "Accidents happen!" with a little shrug as if it was completely beyond her control. Kids are funny.

[reddhedd]

Thank you all for you level headed responses and advice.
I know all this stuff, he's my third kid after all! All those years of experience went right out the window when he started this.
I just feel like I kinda lost my center, you know? And my older boys respond to logic and they can read stuff on the internet. But, my little one...:rolleyes: I've been told how much damage I am doing to my kids by trying to raise them without a god. I guess I let it get to me.
Anyway, thanks again. I will chill now. god=cosmic muffin=IPU=tooth fairy=Loki=Hera=Poseidon=the White Buffalo.
One myth is as good as another, and I will take it with a grain of salt, and teach him about this world and how it works, to the best of my abililty.
"I'm feeling much better now".;)
Kate

[The Other Michael]

Locking the child in a dark closet after taking his flashlight away, and telling him "let me know how good of a job God does at keeping the scary monsters from eating you" may not be a good option at this time.

Five may be a little on the young side for substantive discussions about the POE, Jesus mything, etc. Maybe just let it be seen that you aren't too impressed with his claims (or the claims of the playmates)? The validation of a parent may carry a little more weight at that age.

cheers,
Michael

[Rhea]

We got my son a carving of a Maori God of Protection. Well, actually, I had it as a souvenir, but I gave it to my son to hang over his door.

"It's an imaginary God, who of course has great powers over imaginary monsters, you know. Imaginary things can cancel each other right out! We'll put the Pare over your door and no more imaginary things will get past it."

Plus we watched Blues Clues Pajama party about changing your dreams into something nice. (My son asked why he wasn't allowed to "just start the dream over", I assured him that was allowed).

And we tell him that houses are made to protect us. From cold, from bugs, from animals from rain and that the WHOLE HOUSE was our cozy safe spot all together.

And, when I tuck him in, I say, "I'll think of you all night long!"

I like the idea of adding myths to his myth repertoire. That's been working well for us. (although I can tell you it is like fingers on the chalkboard to hear him say, "tell me the Jesus story, mama!" but since he also says, "tell me the Odin story" then I feel at ease.)

[Johnny Skeptic]

I have a small issue in my home right now. My older kids are ok with atheism, but my little one listened too well when I believed, plus we have a lot of theists in my neighborhood. They tell him all about God, and he comes home very confused. I've explained to him that I was wrong. I thought I knew the truth, but now I know otherwise. He acts like he understands, but then an hour later, he'll tell someone that god made fire, or that god will help him not be scared of the dark.

Is this normal, is it ok, what do I do? He seems to need something larger than himself, and I understand that, but what do I tell him?

No problem, UNLESS your kids become FUNDAMENTALIST Christians, or fundamentalist theists but not Christian theists. It is quite normal for people to enjoy emotional benefits from believing in a higher power. I do not oppose religious people in general, or Christians in particular, but I DO oppose fundamentalists, whether they are Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc. Religious fundamentalists, no matter what the religion, attempt to legislate religion at the expense of other groups of people who do not agree with their religious views. That is not right.

[His Noodly Appendage]

Heh. My niece's default name for everything is "No", unless she knows otherwise.

It makes sense - if a toddler picks up something unfamiliar, the first thing all the adults do is yell "No!"...

[orac]

Heh, and people laugh when you try to tell them that God is just Santa Claus for adults. ;)

But seriously, he's at an age where plenty of kids still haven't quite caught on to the annual santa claus gag, and he's probably not up to advanced logic and theology, so it may not be time to panic just yet.

(Yes, I know, I'm no help at all. You get that sometimes, sorry. ;))

I've been told how much damage I am doing to my kids by trying to raise them without a god. I guess I let it get to me
When a christian says that, the correct response is "my God, you're right! how could I be so evil! hold on, I have to get down to the nearest mosque immediately. Praise Allah that you have shown me the light!" You can work out the corect response to a muslim for yourself. ;)

Even if you were raising a good little theist, for every theist who approves there'll be millions more who think that you're a satanist condemning yourself and your children to some form of eternal damnation. Even if you get the right god to keep them happy, there's enough that would despise you for taking him to the wrong building when you praise Jesus that you still can't win.

Yes, I'm still short on good advice, but I can't say I have much respect for the manipulation through guilt-trips that those people seem to be trying. It doesn't really say a lot for their god. (If any are half way resonable friends, it may pay to actually ask them if they'ld approve of you signing up with the wrong religion and see if that can get them thinking. The worst that can happen is their head will explode and make a mess for you to clean up.)

[dettus]

Wow, :down: to all the atheists who are somehow not producing atheist children. Shit, they are born atheists, wtf happened? :down:

aside from being harsh I can share my experience with my 4 year old daughter. I simply compare God to another pretend magical person. I'm sure your son has a favorite superhero or cartoon character. He knows the difference between what real and pretend, right? Well just compare God to the superhero. But the point of the comparison is that both are just pretend.

[pariah]

I like the idea of showing him fire isn't made by God. Maybe you could rub two sticks together and show him how they get hot and explain that if they get hot enough they catch on fire. He knows fire is hot, right? It seems like this would be easier to understand than something like matches or a lighter.

[Alter]

Tell him "God is a spirit", and leave it at that. Also tell him "the tooth fairy is a spirit" and "Santa Claus is a spirit" and "angels are spirits" and "monsters are spirits".

If you keep all the fake things in the exact same bucket, he'll be able to empty it all at once. Maybe when he's 6?

[Arvel Joffi]

I don't have kids, and I haven't read any of these, but here are a couple of freethought books for children:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1877733059/104-0114210-6419117?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance]Just Pretend: A Freethought Book for Children (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1877733059/104-0114210-6419117?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance)

Other books on free thinking. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/3QPWAETDLI3WA/104-0114210-6419117?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

[Arvel Joffi]

I don't have kids, and I haven't read any of these, but here are a couple of freethought books for children:

Just Pretend: A Freethought Book for Children (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1877733059/104-0114210-6419117?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance) by Dan Barker.

Other books on free thinking. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/3QPWAETDLI3WA/104-0114210-6419117?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

[dancer_rnb]

my folks raised me on greek, roman, and norse myths. They also hinted/explained that Christianity was the modern day equivalent.

[reddhedd]

Wow.
What a trip down memory lane! Thanks, Johnny Skeptic!:)

Update: It's been almost 2 1/2 years since I wrote the OP.
The kid is 8 now, and has a highly developed sense of the absurd.

His smart ass answer, when someone tells him he's going to hell is "Do you eat with that mouth?"

The neighbor lady ( and mother of my son's best friend) tried to take him to Sunday school a couple of times. ("Since you are so busy and don't have time")
He went once, and came home saying "They believe all that stuff is real, Mom!" But he did like the potluck dinner afterwards.;o)

When my MIL recently asked him if he'd like to help in setting up the "Nay-tivity" (deep southern accent) He said "No thank you, I'll probably be busy that day."

I no longer worry about him in the slightest! But thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and ideas.
I feel so well cared for! ;)

Redd

[Wyz_sub10]

I would suggest you tell him what you think without pressuring him to think as you do. Let him figure things out for himself.

Actually, I agree with this. At his age it's difficult to make sense of the world. right now he's probably taking bits and pieces of everything he hears and is is trying to put it all together in some way.

As time passes, he is likely to become better at sorting through all the opinions. At his age, though, the world is full of ghosts and flying dragons and talking dogs and dancing dinosaurs - a basic idea of god is not that difficult to incorporate.

But in time he will see the flying dragons and talking dogs for what they are, and will do likewise with god (provided the immediate influence - friends and family - remains).

ETA: Ha! Didn't even notice the date on the OP. Glad to hear things are moving along well for your family.

[brighid]

Thank you all for you level headed responses and advice.
I know all this stuff, he's my third kid after all! All those years of experience went right out the window when he started this.
I just feel like I kinda lost my center, you know? And my older boys respond to logic and they can read stuff on the internet. But, my little one...:rolleyes: I've been told how much damage I am doing to my kids by trying to raise them without a god. I guess I let it get to me.
Anyway, thanks again. I will chill now. god=cosmic muffin=IPU=tooth fairy=Loki=Hera=Poseidon=the White Buffalo.
One myth is as good as another, and I will take it with a grain of salt, and teach him about this world and how it works, to the best of my abililty.
"I'm feeling much better now".;)
Kate

Don't worry. Your youngest has not yet developed the ability to use logic. He will though. Simply be honest, always.

I have been told I am somehow damaging my children by not taking them to Church. I simply reply that I have been able to raise a thoughtful, kind, compassionate, respectful honor roll, award winning child without the help of a Church and given the sexual abuse scandals prevelant in all Churches I am simply keeping my children from environments that harbor and attract pedophiles thereby protecting my children.

Furthermore, given the important nature of belief in Gods I feel it is my duty to honestly present all religions to my children so when they are adults and mentally competant to make such important decisions they can make an educated and objective choice about the existence or non-existence of Gods.

B

[Godless Dave]

Hell, when I was five I still believed in Santa Claus. Don't sweat it.

[walt6]

Please remember that a five year old is not an adult in a little body. His brain is still developing and he doesn't understand a lot about these things.

You might tell him not to believe in anybody that he can't see. When my young ones were that age, they were afraid of ghosts and stuff, and I calmly told them there was no such thing as ghosts, and that if they couldn't see them, they weren't real.

[GrahamG]

I have four kids (of varying ages, obviously! Unless they were quadruplets, I suppose, but they're not so . . . aaaanyway) They're smart kids. If your kid is asking questions and thinking about stuff then chances are he's smart too - teach him to think and he'll be fine. If he needs to believe in Santa Claus until he's seven, then that's ok - it's up to you to be adult enough not to take it personally in the meantime.

Also remember that, if worse comes to worst and he ends up a god-fearing
christian, it's not the end of the world (except in his head, of course) - there are good, decent (dare I say it, "god-fearing") christians out there. The way I see it, it's not ideal but it could be worse.

The important things are health, happiness and humanity, IMO.

Graham

[walt6]

You might also want to look at some of the humanist web sites. I have seen material to introduce children, even young children, to the humanist way of thinking.

[Bright Life]

Wow, :down: to all the atheists who are somehow not producing atheist children. Shit, they are born atheists, wtf happened? :down:


Dude, she USED TO BE a christian. It's not like she started out as an atheist and decided it would be neat to plant this stuff in her kid's head.

[Megusic]

just out of curiosity, how the heck did a two and a half year old thread get dredged up??? isn't that a no-no?

but reddhedd, i'm glad your kiddo has turned out so well!

[Kydka]

Its not so bad sometimes :)

Wow.
What a trip down memory lane! Thanks, Johnny Skeptic!:)

Update: It's been almost 2 1/2 years since I wrote the OP.
The kid is 8 now, and has a highly developed sense of the absurd.

His smart ass answer, when someone tells him he's going to hell is "Do you eat with that mouth?"

The neighbor lady ( and mother of my son's best friend) tried to take him to Sunday school a couple of times. ("Since you are so busy and don't have time")
He went once, and came home saying "They believe all that stuff is real, Mom!" But he did like the potluck dinner afterwards.;o)

When my MIL recently asked him if he'd like to help in setting up the "Nay-tivity" (deep southern accent) He said "No thank you, I'll probably be busy that day."

I no longer worry about him in the slightest! But thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and ideas.
I feel so well cared for! ;)

Redd

I'm very happy for you. Your son is clever and funny and you must be proud. "No thank you, I'll probably be busy that day." is hilarious. :thumbs: